• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Listening to rap music a form of torture!!

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Nice to know you've foresaken your humanity. At least, it explains your attitude.
Click to expand...

The law is the law.

Humanity - these guys are living in conditions that are most likely centuries ahead of where they came from. The every fact that they very meals (and even have a menu) every day is probably more than they ever had.

Gitmo is not some mysterious torture center that some think it is. It is open to the Red Cross, Congress, military Lawyers, private Lawyers, etc... I would think by now that if it was a torture center someone would have seen the rack, blood, electric chairs, etc...

These men were caught commiting a war crime. Fighting in a war without uniform is indeed classified as a war crime and removes you from the protections of the Conventions. It also removes protections from due process as you then fall under military justice where this is not guaranteed. Perhaps they should have considered this when they decided to pick up arms and fight It is not about humanity - it is about criminality. If US soldier committed war crimes everyone in the liberal world would want them under a firing squad within hours, forget their chances at due process.

I may be mistaken, but I do not recall any time in American history where criminals were simply let go. I also cannot think of any civilized nation that does not detain criminals.
 
Originally posted by: Stratago
Originally posted by: irwincur
Why don't you guys talk about this:
Click to expand...

OK, we can talk about this - FOR THE F*CKING MILLIONTH TIME.


The Conventions DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT apply to un-uniformed soldiers. Common practice in the past when confronted with un-uniformed soldier was to execute them on the battlefield - or behind the lines after REAL TORTURE and QUESTIONING. They once again DO NOT fall under the protections of the Conventions.

The Conventions were made for those that fight fairly (in uniform and identifiable) and for upholding the safety of civilians. The reason why un-uniformed soldiers ARE NOT protected is to minimize the risk of them endangering the civilian populace by either blending in or using civilians as cover - two things that these terrorist pukes are clearly doing.

So by the very nature of the Conventions, it was created to NOT protect them.

Like I said in all previous wars, common practice would have not even allowed them the right to prison - it was death without judge or jury.
Click to expand...

But Durbin is saying that we should protect them. Is that so wrong.
Click to expand...
We are protecting them...from execution.

Would you rather we go back to the old ways?
 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Nice to know you've foresaken your humanity. At least, it explains your attitude.
Click to expand...

The law is the law.

Humanity - these guys are living in conditions that are most likely centuries ahead of where they came from. The every fact that they very meals (and even have a menu) every day is probably more than they ever had.

Gitmo is not some mysterious torture center that some think it is. It is open to the Red Cross, Congress, military Lawyers, private Lawyers, etc... I would think by now that if it was a torture center someone would have seen the rack, blood, electric chairs, etc...

These men were caught commiting a war crime. Fighting in a war without uniform is indeed classified as a war crime and removes you from the protections of the Conventions. It also removes protections from due process as you then fall under military justice where this is not guaranteed. Perhaps they should have considered this when they decided to pick up arms and fight It is not about humanity - it is about criminality. If US soldier committed war crimes everyone in the liberal world would want them under a firing squad within hours, forget their chances at due process.

I may be mistaken, but I do not recall any time in American history where criminals were simply let go. I also cannot think of any civilized nation that does not detain criminals.
Click to expand...

Hey, if they are criminals, hold them, try them, and sentence them to whatever punishment is fit. That is how this country deals with criminals, and I think that by treating terrorist suspects as nothing more than criminals, we'll be both doing the right thing and taking the wind out of their sails.

By the way, is it possible for you to construct an argument that doesn't involve some form of the phrase "everyone in the liberal world" and some moronic assumption about those people?
 
But Durbin is saying that we should protect them. Is that so wrong.
Click to expand...

I swear some of the people here...

What is the problem here. Protect them from what? They are being protected, we could have very well sent them to prisons in Pakistan - where there is definitely not AC and they will definiely be beaten. How about housing them in their native Afghanistan - where once again I am sure that the people that they have abused over the decade will be very gentle with them. How about general prisons? Nope, Bubba will most likely kill them the minute they are let loose.

Hmm... So what to do with them. You have to options. Let them go (which is stupid since they are all criminals) or keep them somewhere safe.

God, the more I hear about Gitmo the more I would consider living there. I don't have anyone cooking for me. I don't have time to read or excersise. I don't have AC. I would definitely prefer it over a prison anywhere else in the world - except maybe Euroland where prisons are more like theme parks full of skinny, gay men with tight white T-shirts.
 
Would you rather we go back to the old ways?
Click to expand...

Sure, it would be easier and I would not have to pay for their detention. Seemed to have worked in the past.

Too bad their are so many spineless pussies in the world today - no one is willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

Hey, if they are criminals, hold them, try them, and sentence them to whatever punishment is fit.
Click to expand...

Then do what with them?

Trust me, they will all eventually get their day in court. For now, they are needed for intelligence - and that is a right that the military has UNDER THE F*CKING CONVENTIONS.


I swear. I am done until one of the liberals here even bothers to read the CONVENTIONS. How much more unfair do we have to make war for out troops before you will be happy?

 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Would you rather we go back to the old ways?
Click to expand...

Sure, it would be easier and I would not have to pay for their detention. Seemed to have worked in the past.

Too bad their are so many spineless pussies in the world today - no one is willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

Hey, if they are criminals, hold them, try them, and sentence them to whatever punishment is fit.
Click to expand...

Then do what with them?

Trust me, they will all eventually get their day in court. For now, they are needed for intelligence - and that is a right that the military has UNDER THE F*CKING CONVENTIONS.


I swear. I am done until one of the liberals here even bothers to read the CONVENTIONS. How much more unfair do we have to make war for out troops before you will be happy?
Click to expand...

What do you mean "then do what with them?"? Punish them accordingly. If it's life in prison, do that. Maybe make a terrorist specific prison or something. If it's death sentence, carry it out. If they are innocent, set them free. It's not that hard.

As to the rights our military has, whatever the protection provided by the conventions, I still think any US soldiers are prohibited from torturing anyone (yes, the definition of torture is still up in the air). As far as I know, the rules don't allow soldiers to torture anyone who is not specifically protected, they are simply not allowed to torture anyone at all. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that is the case.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford

Hey, if they are criminals, hold them, try them, and sentence them to whatever punishment is fit. That is how this country deals with criminals, and I think that by treating terrorist suspects as nothing more than criminals, we'll be both doing the right thing and taking the wind out of their sails.
Click to expand...

Don't expect an answer. I've yet to hear any convincing argument why people are being held without charges and due process.
 
Originally posted by: indianduddawg47
"...treatment of prisoners at Gitmo, including one detainee being held in such cold temperatures that he shivered, another who was held in heat passing 100 degrees and one who was chained to the floor and forced to listen to loud rap music."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159748,00.html

haha. It's nice Senator Durbin considers being forced to listen to rap music is torture.

Also, an added poll for your enjoyment - If you have shivered before, and if you have been in temperatures higher than 100 degrees F, you should vote yes. If you've never shivered before, or never been in a temperature high than 100 degrees F, vote NO.
Click to expand...

Another Mike Savage and Sean Hannity listener :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Harvey
On a couple of occasions, I entered inter-view rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18 - 24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On an-other occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
Click to expand...
See above link for an example of a real human rights violation. I read his speech. It was your typical "America is the problem, not the solution" speech, except too wordly and lengthy for it's own good.

It's a shame our tax dollars are paying to air condition our 'detainees,' (who, by dressing, and fighting as civilians waive their Geneva convention rights) Heck, most federal and state prisions don't even have air conditioners.
 
Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War

Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

Geneva Convention (III) Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War; August 12, 1949

UN Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field

Here it is for all to read.

A few interesting quotes from the Convention:

"A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. "

-----I pretty sure this statement right here rules out any rights they would have as Prisoners of War.

"Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it."

---I'm not sure if Iraq or Afghanistan are bound by the Convention, but if they are not then the prisoners are not protected by it.


 
It's difficult to say what constitute torture. It depends very much on the circumstances. Rap music at near deafening levels, for 24 hours a day, for weeks on end might be considered torture. Being subjected to 100F is not necessarily torture. It is if you make them run laps, but not if you give them a lawn chair and plenty of cold water.



 
Originally posted by: irwincur
Why don't you guys talk about this:
Click to expand...

OK, we can talk about this - FOR THE F*CKING MILLIONTH TIME.


The Conventions DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT apply to un-uniformed soldiers. Common practice in the past when confronted with un-uniformed soldier was to execute them on the battlefield - or behind the lines after REAL TORTURE and QUESTIONING. They once again DO NOT fall under the protections of the Conventions.

The Conventions were made for those that fight fairly (in uniform and identifiable) and for upholding the safety of civilians. The reason why un-uniformed soldiers ARE NOT protected is to minimize the risk of them endangering the civilian populace by either blending in or using civilians as cover - two things that these terrorist pukes are clearly doing.

So by the very nature of the Conventions, it was created to NOT protect them.

Like I said in all previous wars, common practice would have not even allowed them the right to prison - it was death without judge or jury.
Click to expand...
saw this in another thread

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/0/dd198b7e9c5ee792c12563cd0051dbe5?OpenDocument
Article 45 -- Protection of persons who have taken part in hostilities

1. A person who takes part in hostilities and falls into the power of an adverse Party shall be presumed to be a prisoner of war, and therefore shall be protected by the Third Convention, if he claims the status of prisoner of war, or if he appears to be entitled to such status, or if the Party on which he depends claims such status on his behalf by notification to the detaining Power or to the Protecting Power. Should any doubt arise as to whether any such person is entitled to the status of prisoner of war, he shall continue to have such status and, therefore, to be protected by the Third Convention and this Protocol until such time as his status has been determined by a competent tribunal.

2. If a person who has fallen into the power of an adverse Party is not held as a prisoner of war and is to be tried by that Party for an offence arising out of the hostilities, he shall have the right to assert his entitlement to prisoner-of-war status before a judicial tribunal and to have that question adjudicated. Whenever possible under the applicable procedure, this adjudication shall occur before the trial for the offence. The representatives of the Protecting Power shall be entitled to attend the proceedings in which that question is adjudicated, unless, exceptionally, the proceedings are held ' in camera ' in the interest of State security. In such a case the detaining Power shall advise the Protecting Power accordingly.

3. Any person who has taken part in hostilities, who is not entitled to prisoner-of-war status and who does not benefit from more favourable treatment in accordance with the Fourth Convention shall have the right at all times to the protection of Article 75 of this Protocol. In occupied territory, any such person, unless he is held as a spy, shall also be entitled, notwithstanding Article 5 of the Fourth Convention, to his rights of communication under that Convention.
Click to expand...
interesting dont you think?
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No one said you have to become that evil - but that doesn't mean you have to coddle the evil.
Click to expand...


In case you missed it, I'll quote Durbin's actual statement?
Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered inter-view rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18 - 24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On an-other occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
Click to expand...
That's a lot closer to becoming the evil than it is to coddling anyone or anything. :|

 
This is soooooo easy, give all the poor people in gitmo flying lessons and just see how fast another 9/11 happens.... get the point. 9/11 is just the beginning. Did you suffer a loss on that day, I know I did.
 
Originally posted by: redhatlinux
This is soooooo easy, give all the poor people in gitmo flying lessons and just see how fast another 9/11 happens.... get the point. 9/11 is just the beginning. Did you suffer a loss on that day, I know I did.
Click to expand...


So much anger and so little brain.

Hey you should join osama, you will just blend in perfectly.
 
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
No one said you have to become that evil - but that doesn't mean you have to coddle the evil.
Click to expand...


In case you missed it, I'll quote Durbin's actual statement?
Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered inter-view rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18 - 24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On an-other occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.
Click to expand...
That's a lot closer to becoming the evil than it is to coddling anyone or anything. :|
Click to expand...
:roll:
OMG the AIR CONDITIONING was turned off? TEH HORRARS!!!1!!!one!!! Our troops are out in 110degree heat every day over in Iraq so pardon me if I don't give a crap about a prisoner not having air conditioning.
He was cold? TEH horrars again! He shivered? How low does your A/C unit go? 65degrees? 60 MAYBE? Pardon me while I again don't give a crap about this non-torture.

He pulled his hair out? Well, seems he has mental issues.

Rap music is torture? :laugh: yeah, I'll give you that one. I can't stand that sh1t. Let's close down the rap gulag called Gitmo :roll:

Sorry Harvey - none of that is close to showing that we have become the evil we are trying to defeat.
Lets see, nice new fresh Korans provided BY THE US
prayer breaks 5? times a day - allowed BY THE US
A/C provided BY THE US

Yep, we are so damn evil.:roll:

CsG
 
I can't stand that sh1t. Let's close down the rap gulag called Gitmo
Click to expand...
clearly rap is torture, it's simply inhuman to allow the people of America to be exposed to it.. we really should shut down the rap industry.

it's just a matter of human rights.
 
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
I can't stand that sh1t. Let's close down the rap gulag called Gitmo
Click to expand...
clearly rap is torture, it's simply inhuman to allow the people of America to be exposed to it.. we really should shut down the rap industry.

it's just a matter of human rights.
Click to expand...

Good point.

CsG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top