Listening to and considering the 'other side'

[v-600]

Yep. I'll try and address the OP and give an example, before this gets into an abortion thread.

I disagree with the way gun control happens in the US, but as I don't live there its not something that really concerns me on a day to day level. I posted something here a year or so ago a few days after one of the school shootings stating my beliefs, and asking for more info. The thread turned into a very informative resource with many people adding their points of view and justification for them.

As it happens I still disagree with the overall idea (but thats not something for this thread - as I think the abortion issue is too), but most people posted replies eloquently and supported their views. Where most of the rudeness came was from two or more people disagreeing not on the point made, but the conclusion or response to it, with some people taking the line that their points were mutually exclusive to any others e.g my way or the highway.

Finally (and briefly as I don't want to derail this any further) on the abortion issue if a couple are in a stable relationship, with good jobs, house etc but don't want children (for whatever reason) so use contraception and find that the woman is pregnant then I believe the couple should take responsibility and abort the fetus before they are put in a position to raise a child they don't want. I'd be happy to discuss abortion further, but in another thread.

 

[Newell Steamer]

"Do you check out the other side outside of this forum?"

All the time.

I am facinated by the GOP's stance on rape. Just when I think they can't say anything worse than what was already said,.. they do. It's a never ending rolling ball of snow, that is now a glacier.

 

[boomerang]

I am facinated by the GOP's stance on rape.

What is the GOP's stance on rape? A quote or two to back it up would be helpful.

 

[ForumMaster]

since abortion is such a strong issue in the US, i'll bite. even in Israel where religion interferes even more so then in the US, abortion is allowed.

1. if a woman is raped, is she "responsible"? her whole life could be ruined. say a teenager. should she then be forced to carry to term and care for it?

2. medical issues. say the fetus has a medical issue. or the mother has a known genetic disease and the passed the gene on to the fetus. would it not be "responsible" to abort and try again?
in cases of certain diseases like huntingon's, they'll extract the eggs and do ivf, do genetic testing and only implant eggs that don't carry the genes.

my point is, your views can't be hard as stone. there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Newell Steamer]

What is the GOP's stance on rape? A quote or two to back it up would be helpful.

Here are quite a few; http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/0...ublican-rape-quotes-everyone-should-remember/

 

[Newell Steamer]

my point is, your views can't be hard as stone. there are exceptions to every rule.

There was a push in the 2012 elections, by about 7 to 8 Republican conservatives (and no outcry/dismissal from other Republicans,.. but, rather praise for their stance,...), to have women who became pregnant after rape, to be forced to keep the baby.

And, they argued that there is no rape. That if a man is able to penetrate, then the woman isn't really being raped. She is welcoming and allowing it.

Furthermore, a woman's reproductive organs can refuse to be impregnanted, therefore, if you are pregnant and claim to have been raped, you really were not raped. You are just looking to get an abortion for whatever reason.

It was down right sickening.

The "Rape Candidates" did not win.

As of the 2012 elections, women who are raped and impregnated, can abort.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So you are saying that as a whole Republicans favor rape.

 

[Texashiker]

So, when conservatives try to break down existing regulations or block potential regulations that hold others accountable/responsible for their actions under the guise of it being a limitation of freedom or stifling the creation of jobs (a position that is difficult to defend from an objective standpoint), how is that any different? Let's use, say, environmental regulations, because our well-being is tied to the well-being of the environment we all share.

That is corporate influence in our government. Democrats, republicans, liberals, and conservatives all bow to the all mighty dollar.

Dont forget bill clinton signed gatt and nafta after promising not to during the election.

So do not sit there and post how conservatives block environmental issues, when it was democrats and republicans that allowed millions of our jobs and factories to move to chine where they are not being regulated.

Both parties, left and right have had chances to do something about the environment, and they all did nothing because of the loss of jobs and money.

1. if a woman is raped,
2. medical issues.

Those are not choices.

 

[boomerang]

Here are quite a few; http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/0...ublican-rape-quotes-everyone-should-remember/

No, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The actual position of the GOP. Not the thoughts of isolated goofballs. One can't draw a conclusion from that. The official position of the GOP regarding rape.

Imagine if I stated that the position of the Democrat party was that Guam could tip over based on what Hank Johnson said just to name one instance of a bizarre comment. Should I judge the Democrats based on what Representative Johnson or perhaps Maxine Waters says?

 

[Newell Steamer]

No, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. The actual position of the GOP. Not the thoughts of isolated goofballs. One can't draw a conclusion from that. The official position of the GOP regarding rape.

Imagine if I stated that the position of the Democrat party was that Guam could tip over based on what Hank Johnson said just to name one instance of a bizarre comment. Should I judge the Democrats based on what Representative Johnson or perhaps Maxine Waters says?

The GOP has not stated they oppose or condemned these comments. Nor, that they support these, other than allowing said goofballs to run as Republicans.

So, I don't have an official comment/quote from the GOP.

Unfortunately, the GOP has a tainted image. Just as critics paint the GOP as racist white folks, they also throw in another stroke as the Rape Party.

Dismiss them as goofballs, but, the damage was done.

 

[Newell Steamer]

So you are saying that as a whole Republicans favor rape.

The Republican party, en whole, does not "favor" rape.

The Republican party, however, has candidates & members that would have (if they won) made rape not exist, due to their religious beliefs. As in, for the sake of keeping a fetus (regardless of how it was created), there is no rape. If you got pregnant, you allowed it.

The woman has no rights - period.

Upon being conceived, the woman can't do anything other than carry the child to birth. And, of course raise the child, because it is her responsibility - again, regardless of how said child was conceived.

These are rocks being throw out of the Republican house. But, that doesn't mean the entire mansion is filled with crazed lunatics, is your point.

What have the Republicans done to stop their windows being smashed from within??

 

[Texashiker]

Democrats have a long history of suppressing rights. They are clinging to this abortion issue because that is all they have.

 

[boomerang]

The Republican party, en whole, does not "favor" rape.

The Republican party, however, has candidates & members that would have (if they won) made rape not exist, due to their religious beliefs. As in, for the sake of keeping a fetus (regardless of how it was created), there is no rape. If you got pregnant, you allowed it.

The woman has no rights - period.

Upon being conceived, the woman can't do anything other than carry the child to birth. And, of course raise the child, because it is her responsibility - again, regardless of how said child was conceived.

These are rocks being throw out of the Republican house. But, that doesn't mean the entire mansion is filled with crazed lunatics, is your point.

What have the Republicans done to stop their windows being smashed from within??

Are you afraid to look under your bed?

 

[Newell Steamer]

Are you afraid to look under your bed?

Here is my rule of thumb, if there is any question on what I should/shouldn't be doing, I just look to the Right; they know whats up, they figured us liberals all out.

So, you, and if not you, someone tell me if I am.

 

[fskimospy]

Democrats have a long history of suppressing rights. They are clinging to this abortion issue because that is all they have.

Thank you for doing this. It's hard to think of a better example of why someone should be insulted for posting stupid things than the guy who equates an attempt to provide health insurance to poor people with mass, race based enslavement.

By the way, which side of that slavery issue was Texas on?

 

[Texashiker]

Thank you for doing this.

You are welcome.

Someone needs to make a picture of Andrew Jackson (democrat) rounding up Native Americans and sending them on a forced relocation march (aka trail of tears), and FDR (democrat) relocating Japanese-Americans to internment camps.

When the supreme court ruled against andrew jackson and the forced relocation, jackson ignored the ruling.

For reference:

Indian Removal Act of 1830 signed by Andrew Jackson.

Executive Order 9066 signed by FDR.

 

[fskimospy]

You are welcome.

Someone needs to make a picture of Andrew Jackson (democrat) rounding up Native Americans and sending them on a forced relocation march (aka trail of tears), and FDR (democrat) relocating Japanese-Americans to internment camps.

When the supreme court ruled against andrew jackson and the forced relocation, jackson ignored the ruling.

For reference:

Indian Removal Act of 1830 signed by Andrew Jackson.

Executive Order 9066 signed by FDR.

Ooh, and then we could have another gif of Lincoln (republican) suspending habeas corpus, leading to people being arrested for the crime of saying something bad about the president. Then we could have a note that when the courts ruled against him, he ignored them. That would be stupid and pointless of course, but apparently there are stupid people on this board.

I would ask what side of the habeas corpus issue Texas was on, but during that time they were still fighting on the side of race based mass enslavement, torture, rape, and murder.

 

[Texashiker]

I would ask what side of the habeas corpus issue Texas was on, but during that time they were still fighting on the side of race based mass enslavement, torture, rape, and murder.

It was legal to own slaves then. What side of the law are you on?

This goes back to you being a hypocrite.

You favor abortion because it is legal. But you slam Texas for doing something that was legal?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ah the drama of it all. Nothing like a little hyper partisan hyperbole to start the day!

 

[fskimospy]

It was legal to own slaves then. What side of the law are you on?

This goes back to you being a hypocrite.

You favor abortion because it is legal. But you slam Texas for doing something that was legal?

No, I favor abortion rights because they are right. It also happens to be legal, and resoundingly so. You appear to have confused the fact of me informing you of the futility of your immoral attempts to attack people's control over their own bodies with that being the basis for my opinion. Happily in the case of abortion the law and what is right are on the same side. How fun for us!

I just wanted to remind you that when you mindlessly attack people for the legacy of groups they are affiliated with that your state that you appear to at least be proud enough to have in your name has an abominable history of its own.

Like I said, you're just kind of acting like exhibit A of people who don't deserve to be listened to. You're too irrational. There are many smart and interesting conservatives out there, but you do your entire ideology a disservice.

 

[Texashiker]

No, I favor abortion rights because they are right. It also happens to be legal, and resoundingly so.

Your posting history makes it clear you have no morals or values, all you care about is if something is legal. If the issue has been upheld by the supreme court you are sure to bring that point up.

So you should have no problem with Texas being a pro-slavery state.

 

[fskimospy]

Your posting history makes it clear you have no morals or values, all you care about is if something is legal or upheld by the supreme court.

So you should have no problem with Texas being a pro-slavery state.

"I think you believe a certain way therefore you must make the following argument that I made up for you and now admit that I'm right."

You're a moron. I know people on here tell you how stupid you are a lot, but it's not enough. I think you've proven my point enough for this thread.

 

[Texashiker]

You're a moron.

Your post are like clockwork.

When backed into a corner with no rebuttal you resort to insults.

 

[nehalem256]

The woman has no rights - period.

Upon being conceived, the woman can't do anything other than carry the child to birth. And, of course raise the child, because it is her responsibility - again, regardless of how said child was conceived.

Isn't that exactly what liberals say to men?:hmm:

 

[fskimospy]

Your post are like clockwork.

When backed into a corner with no rebuttal you resort to insults.