list of whats in the HC Bill

[First]

Why would I "admit" to something that isn't true? Can you find the definition I whipped up from my apparently unbelievable knowledge of the vernacular anywhere in the first few pages from Google?

You find it unbelievable that a person could give a straightforward definition for a word as esoteric as deadbeat? Wow. Is this the same person who waxes condescending about rhetoric? How exactly do you expect anyone to be competent at rhetoric when you assume that the entire world is incapable of knowing a simple definition?

Yeah, again, it’s funny that you truly believe anyone here thinks that you knew the definition of deadbeat had to absolutely be tied to being able to pay off financial obligations when the common usage is for someone who is lazy. Not paying off financial obligations is practically an American tradition going on 200+ years now. I guess the whole country is a bunch of deadbeats!

So you can't produce the quotes you said were in this very thread? Very compelling.

Regurgitation doesn’t clarify things for you well as was adequately delineated several posts back so doing the same thing over again here would prove a waste of time.

No, a LOT of people would call a millionaire engineer a deadbeat for failing to pay his obligations. A deadbeat is a deadbeat.

No one particularly intelligent would call a millionaire engineer a deadbeat all else equal, but I suppose that’s why you believe it to be so. I can’t help someone who thinks in grade school absolutes.

Can you please post the quotes that you claim are in this thread? You are so full of shit I have olfactory fatigue.

The proof is in your local DNS cache.

 

[flavio]

Do you really believe that you can add 30+ million people to healthcare on taxpayer dollars and reduce the deficit?

Perhaps but there's no reason to think the entire 30+ million will all be entirely or even partially on tax payer dollars.

My taxes aren't increasing.

 

[Robor]

Quick question, when did "moderate regulation" become "nationalization"?

When the R's lost and Fox News and AM talk radio went on the offensive.

 

[OutHouse]

So where do you think it comes from? Did you read the CBO report where it reduces the deficit or are you just being an alarmist in vague ways.

you actually believe those magic numbers???

 

[Hacp]

I don't know, but "a few good ideas" alone doesn't seem to me to be terribly effective at lowering costs and expanding access to coverage, either.

Expanding access. Why do we need to expand access? Expand access is code word for taxpayer hand out.

 

[Hacp]

Go ahead and tell that to every 26 year old you see working a service or menial job. Obviously since there are jobs for everyone, they must be indigents to not have one of those very available and common professional jobs. Oh yeah, every time you see one of the 10% unemployed Americans, punch him in the face, because he's obviously a lazy piece of shit to not have a job in this job-rich economy!

If you do that you'll get arrested. We're not idiots you know.

 

[flavio]

Expanding access. Why do we need to expand access? Expand access is code word for taxpayer hand out.

Oh noez, we're going to help people with crippling illnesses!

Taxpayer handout is a code word for "I'd prefer to let people die and fuck up emergency rooms than work towards a more effective and efficient system like other countries have".

 

[Hacp]

Oh noez, we're going to help people with crippling illnesses!

Taxpayer handout is a code word for "I'd prefer to let people die and fuck up emergency rooms than work towards a more effective and efficient system like other countries have".

Which is why we need to repeal the emergency room laws. Its killing hospitals and making health care more expensive for paying customers.

 

[flavio]

Which is why we need to repeal the emergency room laws. Its killing hospitals and making health care more expensive for paying customers.

Nooope, it's why we need everyone to be insured. People with serious illnesses often are unable to work.

 

[Hacp]

Nooope, it's why we need everyone to be insured. People with serious illnesses often are unable to work.

We have 10% unemployment. We lack jobs, not people.

 

[flavio]

What's your point? Let them die? So they don't tuk er jerbs?

 

[shira]

Awesome cost control measures :thumbsup:

/sarcasm

Fern

No need for sarcasm. As was mentioned during today's debate - these were two of the 10 recommendations made by health care economists to control costs. Six of those 10 are fully in the bill. Three of the 10 are partially represented.

And the one recommended cost-control method item that didn't make it into the bill? (Drum roll, please.) . . . The public option. Opposed by - you guessed it - the right.

So the next time the right says they want to control health care costs, you can try sarcasm. Or you can just laugh.

 

[joeboggs]

* Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.

Didn't we already have that ? What was it called I forget ?

Are you referring to Medicaid? The atrocity of a program that forces the elderly to divest themselves of almost every asset they own in order to plummet into poverty? The program that forces people to deed their homes over to the government and allows the government to attach itself to (almost) all of the gain it may realize upon disposition so that the heirs of the estate receive nothing?

 

[EXman]

26 year olds are children now? Dang...

So I can remove myself from my company's coverage, have them pay me what they were paying for my health care, and get coverage from my parents for a couple more years.

Great this way we even more enable deadbeat kids living at home! <---- This will be popular with a certain segment of AT couchpotatos!

 

[umbrella39]

So.. you say Im not paying NOW for that guy with no insurance in the ER getting treated and sent home with a $3000 bill. Or if admitted, sent home with a $100,000+ bill?
Yeah... Right...

QFT. It's much better for my hospital to continue to piss away more and more every month on the huge amount of uninsured in SE Michigan who tie up our ER with shit they should should be seeing their doctor for at his/her office. Sometimes they are there only because they can't afford to pay for an Albuterol inhaler much less prohibitively expensive ones like Advair or Symbacort. Now they are wheezing so bad we have to intubate to protect their airway and put them on a nice, expensive vent in one of our ICU's. Rewind, hit play the next day and so on. Next year everyone who is lucky enough to still have insurance sees a huge increase in their per paycheck healthcare deduction to offset all this free shit.

 

[Hacp]

What's your point? Let them die? So they don't tuk er jerbs?

My point is, if we went all mushy at every sob story, our country would be bankrupt. Oops, we already are!

 

[zsdersw]

Expanding access. Why do we need to expand access? Expand access is code word for taxpayer hand out.

You didn't mention how "a few good ideas", the most popular individual provisions of the current health care bill, is going to lower costs or make coverage more affordable so we don't have as many involuntarily uninsured. Offer something useful, for a change.

But no, you're what I call a useless demagogue. The kind of person who only criticizes the other side while offering no useful suggestions. That contrasts with the useful demagogue, who both criticizes but also offers realistic suggestions as alternatives to those of the other side.

 

[nonlnear]

And the one recommended cost-control method item that didn't make it into the bill? (Drum roll, please.) . . . The public option. Opposed by - you guessed it - the right.

Opposed by the right, but definitely killed by the left ( or perhaps the center would be a less adversarial way to put it). The Dems could have had a public option passed a long time ago if they had the will and discipline. The Republicans need a lot of blame for a lot of shit over the years, but it's ludicrous to blame the Republicans for the Democrats' failure to pass their own agenda when they owned both houses. And don't try the line that there wasn't time to craft a public option before Kennedy kicked it. A public option doesn't require more than the four pages that a current public option bill occupies. Large bills are not required to create monumental change.

The Democrats just plain didn't care enough to bother striking while the iron was hot (assuming they wanted to in the first place). They were more enamored with the idea of passing a large bill than a truly transformative one. That is definitely not the fault of the Republicans.

 

[Hacp]

You didn't mention how "a few good ideas", the most popular individual provisions of the current health care bill, is going to lower costs or make coverage more affordable so we don't have as many involuntarily uninsured. Offer something useful, for a change.

But no, you're what I call a useless demagogue. The kind of person who only criticizes the other side while offering no useful suggestions. That contrasts with the useful demagogue, who both criticizes but also offers realistic suggestions as alternatives to those of the other side.

I have a useful solution. If you can't pay for health care, you don't get health care. It would reduce the % of GDP we spend on health care because less people use the system. It would also help reduce government spending and make the US more competitive with growing countries like India and China.

 

[zsdersw]

I have a useful solution. If you can't pay for health care, you don't get health care. It would reduce the % of GDP we spend on health care because less people use the system. It would also help reduce government spending and make the US more competitive with growing countries like India and China.

That's not a useful solution. That's a soundbite.

 

[Hacp]

That's not a useful solution. That's a soundbite.

You're biased because you want to "expand" access, code for taxpayer handout. No access should be expanded unless the people pay for it on their own, at the same rate everyone else does.

 

[zsdersw]

You're biased because you want to "expand" access, code for taxpayer handout. No access should be expanded unless the people pay for it on their own, at the same rate everyone else does.

Perhaps you didn't see my thread outlining my preferred ideas for health care reform. Expanding access to coverage != expanding coverage. Expanding access is code for "making coverage more affordable". Your interpretation is a function of your bias, not mine.

Selective reading; another hallmark of the useless demagogue.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I have a useful solution. If you can't pay for health care, you don't get health care. It would reduce the % of GDP we spend on health care because less people use the system. It would also help reduce government spending and make the US more competitive with growing countries like India and China.

You are my favorite internet e-thug, with your oh so tough words and hardcore, "fuck 'em if they can't fend for themselves, I don't give a shit what circumstances put them where they are now, let them rot"
You are my e-hero :wub:

 

[Hacp]

Perhaps you didn't see my thread outlining my preferred ideas for health care reform. Expanding access to coverage != expanding coverage. Expanding access is code for "making coverage more affordable". Your interpretation is a function of your bias, not mine.

Selective reading; another hallmark of the useless demagogue.

Why the hell would I read your thread? It isn't special, doesn't require special attention. Fact is that liberals want to give more people government handouts. Spend more of other people's money.

 

[Hacp]

You are my favorite internet e-thug, with your oh so tough words and hardcore, "fuck 'em if they can't fend for themselves, I don't give a shit what circumstances put them where they are now, let them rot"
You are my e-hero :wub:

I have just realized how the world works. There are 4 billion more people with "circumstances". We'll go broke if we exercised compassion towards all of them.