List of what got cut from the stimulus bill

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
This list makes me sad. A lot of that is indeed infrastructure, or at the very least a boon to American industry. What ever happened to the Republicans saying that all those unemployed should turn to education to pick up skills for the "jobs of the future"? Well, they don't seem to want to fund any of that either. Say buh-bye to the last of the American technological and scientific edge.

Why should the govt be subsidising this?? we have private industry for a reason.

Because the government is sometimes better suited to do so itself. Education and Infrastructure are two of those areas. Sure, we do have some private industry involved in both those fields, which is healthy, but they don't receive our taxdollars for a reason. Private industry has really done a bang-up job as of late. We don't just delegate everything to private business as we aren't fascists.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you seriously stating that the government does a good job with education? seriously?

The feds have done a good job at keeping our public universities at least minimally funded, making them the best in the world. Tuition payments are a tiny percentage of the whole picture. The best public universities are funded by the feds via science research grants.

Education should not be a commodity that is only affordable to the upper/middle class. You're accepting the creation of an uneducated underclass if you privatize all education unless you're somehow making the private schools free, in which case you're left with the same system as before but added an extra layer of inefficiency for no reason.

Abandoning the public school system is not the answer. Abolish the teacher's union and then give K-12 teachers a fair salary, in the 60-80k range (average in 2008 was 40k), which still places them below entry-level community college professors. Shit, that's a paltry sum considering the importance of the job. Increasing salaries will attract skilled scientific workers who want to teach but don't want to take the low pay for what amounts to a very difficult, frustrating job.

Better paid teacher positions = more competition for the teaching jobs = better teachers. Obviously we need to get rid of the teaching unions first and fire some bad teachers (prevented by said union), but THIS is the solution to our pathetic K-12 public schools.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: bbdub333
Yeah, and all the money spent in Iraq goes to American soldiers and American contractors. What's your point?

And most of that money is spent in Iraq. What's YOUR point?

Spent on what in Iraq? You think we are free to travel around the country and shop in their stores like tourists? We aren't. The money that goes to us military and contractor folks is spent the same place your money is spent.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: AFMatt

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: bbdub333
Yeah, and all the money spent in Iraq goes to American soldiers and American contractors. What's your point?

And most of that money is spent in Iraq. What's YOUR point?

Spent on what in Iraq? You think we are free to travel around the country and shop in their stores like tourists? We aren't. The money that goes to us military and contractor folks is spent the same place your money is spent.

On projects/security/etc for Iraq or troops in Iraq. If that same money were spent on projects in America we would have gained a whole hell of a lot more from it, I think that's the point of the argument.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's the Republicans fault this stuff got cut. They blocked passage of the bill until it was.

waawaaawaaa

you are free to remain stuck on stupid

duh, duh, duh, thank you

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Because the government is sometimes better suited to do so itself. Education and Infrastructure are two of those areas. Sure, we do have some private industry involved in both those fields, which is healthy, but they don't receive our taxdollars for a reason. Private industry has really done a bang-up job as of late. We don't just delegate everything to private business as we aren't fascists.

Hmm, I was speaking to the science angle however personally I agree with other posters, that Govt doesn't do nearly as good of a job with education as the private institutions, but at least with the govt it is free right?..or is it.

 

[Pocatello]

Of course all the stuffs on the bill are for noble causes. Come on, new schools for our children! Who would say no to science! But in reality, most of the money will be wasted in inefficiency and corruption. After all these years, the American people are still gullible. In the end, our children will be burdened with debts.

 

[SneakyStuff]

$98 million for school nutrition

Ramen for everyone!

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
So the most noticeable cuts to me were

1) Education, which yields higher returns than any other government investment

2) Science, a sector where we just lost a bunch of jobs; science spending has the second highest return of any government investment

3) Broadband; I'm fine with this one since the telecos pretty much just pocketed the last big check we handed them. But along this line, why aren't we going after them for that?

$50million for bloodthirsty attack lawyers to rip them a new one as a more efficient replacement for the cut?

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: brencat
For fvck sake, let the private sector determine what is suitable and profitable based

God damn it why didn't we let the private sector do things before. We would never of been in this mess then had we only let the free markets work without any regulations.

Exactly. Leave it up to market and it would get stronger and gov't wouldn't be grossly overspending.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: fallout man

? $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)

? $16 billion for school construction

? $3.5 billion for higher education construction

HAHAHA.

Republicans HATE kids, unless they can crawl under the covers with them.

How much do we already spend on education per child?

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: fallout man

? $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)

? $16 billion for school construction

? $3.5 billion for higher education construction

HAHAHA.

Republicans HATE kids, unless they can crawl under the covers with them.

How much do we already spend on education per child?

You should see some of the Taj Mahals we have down here in the Houston suburbs.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: JS80
How much do we already spend on education per child?

Judging from my experience in a public high school (graduated five years ago), money is not so much of an issue as the students' willingness to learn. Fortunately, the results of my IQ test placed me apart from the mainstream classes, but there were still plenty of people in the AP classes that did not care and were disruptive to those who wanted to learn.

The discipline problem was the greatest of all, as the faculty was afraid to discipline students (physically or by other means) out of fear of having to stay for parent meetings (from what I am told, the parents were more trouble than the students) and lawsuits. Many teachers just popped antidepressants and joined the ranks of the uncaring while cruising towards retirement. I had some horrible teachers in HS that were horrible because they basically thought that the kids do not care, so they should not either.

We could save a good bit of money by making it easy to remove those that do not wish to learn earlier. Once they are out of the way, the standards can be raised along with the difficulty of the curriculum and teachers will not simply pass students just to finally get rid of them.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
Why don't we just build another aircraft carrier instead?

Cause we don't need one and the money wouldn't get spread to enough states.

We also don't need to build new schools when inner city districts can't keep students in their current schools. At least a carrier lasts 45 years.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: winnar111
Why don't we just build another aircraft carrier instead?

And named it the George W Bush? It would be assured to run aground.

Well, Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush I got theirs, so W is next in line. They're obviously skipping Clinton.

The next carrier is a new class, and would be the mightiest ship in the world.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: fallout man

? $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)

? $16 billion for school construction

? $3.5 billion for higher education construction

HAHAHA.

Republicans HATE kids, unless they can crawl under the covers with them.

That 16 billion for school construction would have created a lot of jobs.

don't know about your part of the country around here they seem to be closing perfectly good schools.
Maybe they should design them on wheels?
Text

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: bbdub333
Yeah, and all the money spent in Iraq goes to American soldiers and American contractors. What's your point?

And most of that money is spent in Iraq. What's YOUR point?

I guess creating jobs is bad now. Shrug.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
This list makes me sad. A lot of that is indeed infrastructure, or at the very least a boon to American industry. What ever happened to the Republicans saying that all those unemployed should turn to education to pick up skills for the "jobs of the future"? Well, they don't seem to want to fund any of that either. Say buh-bye to the last of the American technological and scientific edge.

Why should the govt be subsidising this?? we have private industry for a reason.

Because the government is sometimes better suited to do so itself. Education and Infrastructure are two of those areas. Sure, we do have some private industry involved in both those fields, which is healthy, but they don't receive our taxdollars for a reason. Private industry has really done a bang-up job as of late. We don't just delegate everything to private business as we aren't fascists.

You have got to be kidding me. Are you seriously stating that the government does a good job with education? seriously?

The feds have done a good job at keeping our public universities at least minimally funded, making them the best in the world. Tuition payments are a tiny percentage of the whole picture. The best public universities are funded by the feds via science research grants.

Education should not be a commodity that is only affordable to the upper/middle class. You're accepting the creation of an uneducated underclass if you privatize all education unless you're somehow making the private schools free, in which case you're left with the same system as before but added an extra layer of inefficiency for no reason.

Abandoning the public school system is not the answer. Abolish the teacher's union and then give K-12 teachers a fair salary, in the 60-80k range (average in 2008 was 40k), which still places them below entry-level community college professors. Shit, that's a paltry sum considering the importance of the job. Increasing salaries will attract skilled scientific workers who want to teach but don't want to take the low pay for what amounts to a very difficult, frustrating job.

Better paid teacher positions = more competition for the teaching jobs = better teachers. Obviously we need to get rid of the teaching unions first and fire some bad teachers (prevented by said union), but THIS is the solution to our pathetic K-12 public schools.

Given their ridiculous benefits and shortened work year, $40k ends up being a lot more than it seems.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: JS80
How much do we already spend on education per child?

Judging from my experience in a public high school (graduated five years ago), money is not so much of an issue as the students' willingness to learn. Fortunately, the results of my IQ test placed me apart from the mainstream classes, but there were still plenty of people in the AP classes that did not care and were disruptive to those who wanted to learn.

The discipline problem was the greatest of all, as the faculty was afraid to discipline students (physically or by other means) out of fear of having to stay for parent meetings (from what I am told, the parents were more trouble than the students) and lawsuits. Many teachers just popped antidepressants and joined the ranks of the uncaring while cruising towards retirement. I had some horrible teachers in HS that were horrible because they basically thought that the kids do not care, so they should not either.

We could save a good bit of money by making it easy to remove those that do not wish to learn earlier. Once they are out of the way, the standards can be raised along with the difficulty of the curriculum and teachers will not simply pass students just to finally get rid of them.

The problem with education, when you boil things right down, is how many people kids idolize, people that kids want to grow up and be like, got where they are because they did well in school? There's a societal problem at work where we value so many other things above education, and there are other pathways to the "success" most kids (and even their parents) idolize. So I agree, more money thrown at schools is not going to fix this problem, and either getting the kids that don't care enough to be there out or preferably turned around would go a long way in helping the situation. Bottom line is the kids have to have the motivation to want to learn, and maybe paying them for making good grades would be the best use of a lot of our education money.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02....html?_r=2&ref=opinion

That's what the centrist morons accomplished.

 

[quest55720]

I think the republicans gave up to easy. Watching Obama try and sell this stinking corpse of a bill says to me the republicans had the public on its side on this issue. I do admit it is entertaining watching Obama try to sell this. To bad he is a much better campaigner than he is leader of the free world. Seeing Obama in front of his fanatics is always entertaining.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If the Dems don't like the changes then why don't they quit bitching and go tell the Republicans to pound sand?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

*sigh*

YAG(reat)S(timulus)B(ill)T(hat)D(does)N(othing)

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: fallout man

? $600 million for Title I (No Child Left Behind)

? $16 billion for school construction

? $3.5 billion for higher education construction

HAHAHA.

Republicans HATE kids, unless they can crawl under the covers with them.

How much do we already spend on education per child?

You should see some of the Taj Mahals we have down here in the Houston suburbs.

Yes, we already spend too much money on education... Its not about "throwing money" at things to make it work.. if we need to throw any money towards k-12 education-- maybe a few thousand dollars more.. but then, how much do paddles cost now a days.. worst case, just use the hand.. its even cheaper.. but I digress.. its probably illegal anyways.. :-(

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
If the Dems don't like the changes then why don't they quit bitching and go tell the Republicans to pound sand?

Because they are scared this thing will fail. If there is no republican support and it fails well next few elections the republicans take over again. That and democrats don't have balls to really take a stand when things get tough. Obama is the king of no balls he should of wrote a bill and sent it to congress and said pass this now. Instead he let Pelosi write this pork filled bill. Now the public is turning against porkulus Obama is in campaign mode to try and save the day.

 

[theeedude]

This is not going to be enough as written, get ready for follow up stimulus bill(s).
If states are not given more federal aid, they are going to cut more than enough jobs to cancel out whatever jobs creation is in this Republican watered down bill.