Linux Question

[BSox]

Whats my best option for a new Linux user, I want a nice OS where its gonna be easy for me to get started up on, One thats easy to set up to play my mp3's on, also one with wireless networking (is it even possible to connect to a network i set up using windows on a diff computer.

 

[cleverhandle]

Pick whatever sounds cool to you. Or the one your friends use. Or the one with the cuddliest mascot.

It's all the same. Put your energy into learning one of them, rather than futzing around trying to find the "perfect distro."


Oh, and... Debian.

 

[BSox]

So id be able to run my wireless network on any of em, thats what im most conerned about, its got a key on it thats WEP.

 

[sigs3gv]

Originally posted by: cleverhandle
Pick whatever sounds cool to you. Or the one your friends use. Or the one with the cuddliest mascot.

It's all the same. Put your energy into learning one of them, rather than futzing around trying to find the "perfect distro."


Oh, and... Debian.

If you try hard enough, you can basically morph a distro into another distro.

 

[sigs3gv]

Originally posted by: BSox
So id be able to run my wireless network on any of em, thats what im most conerned about, its got a key on it thats WEP.

What wireless card do you have?

 

[BSox]

A ZyXEL 802.11g

 

[BSox]

and sigs3 what linuz u running the pic looks nice.

 

[Nothinman]

So id be able to run my wireless network on any of em, thats what im most conerned about, its got a key on it thats WEP.

Depends on the chipset the card uses, at the very least a model number would be nice. But even that might not be good enough since a lot of manufacturers like to change chipsets without updating any of the docs on their cards.

and sigs3 what linuz u running the pic looks nice.

Considering it says desktop-ubuntu.jpg in big letters at the top of the page, I would assume Ubuntu.

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: BSox
So id be able to run my wireless network on any of em...

Well, you either be able to run it on any of them, or none of them. There's not a whole lot of in-between that can't be overcome by figuring out what you're doing.

 

[sigs3gv]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

So id be able to run my wireless network on any of em, thats what im most conerned about, its got a key on it thats WEP.

Depends on the chipset the card uses, at the very least a model number would be nice. But even that might not be good enough since a lot of manufacturers like to change chipsets without updating any of the docs on their cards.

and sigs3 what linuz u running the pic looks nice.

Considering it says desktop-ubuntu.jpg in big letters at the top of the page, I would assume Ubuntu.

Heh, I used to run Ubuntu, I recently converted to Slackware + FreeRock Gnome. You can make any GNOME-based desktop look at that. Just grab the themes at GNOME-Look.org.

Vista But
nuoveXT 1.6

 

[Nothinman]

Heh, I used to run Ubuntu, I recently converted to Slackware + FreeRock Gnome. You can make any GNOME-based desktop look at that. Just grab the themes at

I realize that, but if you're not using Ubuntu anymore you should probably fix the filename of the screenshot =)

 

[P0ldy]

The ultrahacker edition used in Swordfish.

This question is asked every day. Try a lot of them.

 

[Robor]

I'd recommend Ubuntu

 

[sourceninja]

I'm not a big fan of ubuntu, I think its quality has gone downhill. Too many hacks like automatix and weird work around to get things working. I'd say go with debian, suse, or fedora core for new users. I personally use gentoo.

 

[Nothinman]

I'm curious as to what Automatix actually solves for people, I never looked into what it actually does. There's a few things like mplayer that aren't in official packages because of patent issues, but otherwise for what do people use Automatix?

 

[sourceninja]

It installs tons of crap that normally you would have to find and setup 3rd party repos for. But for some reaosn a lot of people seem to have problems just setting up and installing 3rd party repos. I call having to get 3rd party repos for essential software (as opposed to an offical non-us repo) a hack. If you are releasing a commercial OS (which ubuntu claims to do) you should get permission to distribute things people need, or at least get companys like sun to release packages for your OS. Another problem with easy ubuntu and automatrix is that the ubuntu forums wont really tell you how to do it by hand, they just tend to point at these tools. This is a problem if you are a kubuntu user. Most of the things installed are gnome centric with no kde counterparts installed.

here is a list of software automatrix installs

1) Installs multimedia codecs
2) Installs all Firefox plugins (java, flash, etc) (except Adobe reader and mplayer)
3) Installs RAR, ACE and UNRAR archive support
4) Installs skype
5) Installs Acrobat reader 7 and firefox plugin for the same.
6) Installs Gnomebaker (CD/DVD burning s/w for GNOME)
7) Installs gftp (FTP client for GNOME with ssh capability)
8) Installs Amule (File sharing program)
9) Installs Frostwire (GPL clone of Limewire)
10) Installs multimedia editors (Audacity (audio), Kino (video), EasyTag (ID3))
11) Installs DVD (dvdrip) ripper
12) Installs Mplayer and mplayerplug-in version 3.05 for Firefox
13) Installs totem-xine, Realplayer, VLC and Beep Media Player (with docklet)
14) Installs Opera Browser
15) Installs Debian Menu (shows all installed applications) (this kills and restarts your gnome-panel without warning u but its a completely harmless operation!)
16) Installs Bittornado and Azureus (Bittorrent clients)
17) Installs Avidemux (Video editing tool) (New version 2.1.0)
18) Enables Numlock on (turns numlock on Gnome startup)
19) Installs Programming Tools (Anjuta (C/C++ IDE), Bluefish (HTML editor) and Screem (Web Development Env.))
20) Install GnomePPP (Graphical Dial up connection tool)
21) Installs MS true type fonts
22) Configures ctrl-alt-del to start gnome-system-monitor (aka windows)
23) Installs Streamripper and Streamtuner
24) Installs NON-FREE audio and dvd codecs
25) Installs ndisgtk (WiFi configurator Graphical user interface)
26) Upgrades Open Office to 2.0 (final version), installs openoffice clipart and installs OO2 thumbnailer. (no support for AMD64 and ppc packages)
27) Adds 3 nautilus scripts (open any file with gedit as root; open a nautilus window as root in any folder; open gnome search tool in any folder (Right click in a nautilus window and look under "scripts")
28) Installs SUN'S JAVA JRE version 1.5
29) Installs SUN'S JAVA JDK version 1.5
30) Installs wine (u need to run winecfg manually after installation)
31) Enables ejection of CD when CDROM drive button is pressed.
32) Installs AMSN 0.95 (MSN client with webcam support)
33*) Installs firestarter (GNOME firewall frontend) and adds firestarter to GNOME startup
34*) installs gdesklets (GNOME eyecandy) and adds gdesklets to GNOME startup
35*) Gamepads (Makes USB gamepads work)
36*) Turns DMA ON on Intel and AMD machines (needs a restart)
37*) NVIDIA cards (Detects Nvidia cards and installs drivers) (Needs a restart)
38*) Adds midi capability to your Ubuntu box (test by playing a midi file with timidity or pmidi from terminal)
39*) Installs Firefox 1.5.0.1 and its plugins(themes and extensions are not retained, bookmarks need to be copied from backup folder)

A repositiory system only works if you have the software people actually use in your repo. All the hacks ubuntu needs to use software like firefox 1.5, mplayer, sun java, etc really make it a pain to set things up. Espeically the issues with firefox 1.5 (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=96595&highlight=firefox no backports and the install process is annoying). KDE 3.5 is in stable breezy (adding repos suggested by kubuntu.org which is an offical ubuntu project) and it also has problems (such as konq does not work with any plugins). Packages like macromedia flash are hard to find even though the open source version is easy to find and crap. You have to go enable multiverse repositorys to get it to work, but even then you will have to add some symlinks it to work with firefox 1.5. Good luck gettng flash with konqueror on kde 3.5. There are just tons of these little minor irritating issues that didn't happen when ubuntu first came out. Ubuntu's 64bit support is basically non-existant imho. Of course users that care about 64bit support will be better off with gentoo or maybe debian right now. I had ubuntu send me 100 CD's to give out at our last lan party. Out of 100CD's only about half actually worked according to reports. Gentoo is very stable on my box, ubuntu has random firefox crashes and kde 3.5 crashes (gnome is very stable). I do not have these problems as often with debian (although some kde apps crash on me with debian sid). A lot of packages are really behind on versions and the slack is covered by the ubuntu backports project (which is now an offical project and does a great job). But there are a lot of packages (like firefox) that can't be upgraded by ubuntu backports because they are somehow tied into other 'core' features in the os. This also means you wont get things like updated nvidia drivers. You will have to wait till the next release. This means for some things you might miss new useful features (ut2004 had a patch that added nice features if you had the right nvidia driver.)

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure if you give me a while I can come up with tons more issues I have with ubuntu. I just find the OS very restricting.

For the most part debian doesnt these issues. Gentoo has none of these issues (although some will argue it has its own problems). Suse doesn't have these issues. I think if you want to use ONLY what ubuntu supplys then you should go ubuntu. Or if you want to learn the basics and get a feel for linux. But in the long run I think you will need a different linux distro for any serious work (without jumping though a lot of hoops). When new software comes out, I do not want to wait 6 months. Especially if that is something I could use new features in. I'm ok waiting 6 months for a kde upgrade or a major change in the abi. However, I want simple apps updated quickly (such as firefox). Sure you could run dapper, but it is frequently broken (much more broken then say sid or ~arch in gentoo ever gets). I just think ubuntu is a toy OS designed for new users who dont want or dont need control over their OS. I belive their thought process is 'shutup and do it the ubuntu way'. I even got this feeling from listening to the speach about the upcomming ubuntu features at the ohio linux fest. Yes, their OS is nice, and they have done a lot to help the adoption of linux, but I think its going downhill.

 

[Nothinman]

I call having to get 3rd party repos for essential software (as opposed to an offical non-us repo) a hack.

So you want Ubuntu to pay the licensing fees for things like MPEG2 decoding and still be able to release a free distro?

1) Installs multimedia codecs

w32codecs is available in the Marillat repository.

2) Installs all Firefox plugins (java, flash, etc) (except Adobe reader and mplayer)

Non-free software and possibly breaking the EULA since you don't have to agree to it to install the software like you would have done if you do it manually.

3) Installs RAR, ACE and UNRAR archive support

rar is in Debian non-free. unace is in Debian main, it's Ubuntu's fault for not packaging them.

4) Installs skype

Skype is non-free. There are Debian packages at http://debian-unofficial.org/ but they'll never be in main or non-free.

5) Installs Acrobat reader 7 and firefox plugin for the same.

Again non-free, but available in the Marillat repository.

6) Installs Gnomebaker (CD/DVD burning s/w for GNOME)

Available in Ubuntu Universe.

7) Installs gftp (FTP client for GNOME with ssh capability)

Available in Ubuntu Universe, also seems there's an gftp-gtk package in main, not sure what the difference is.

8) Installs Amule (File sharing program)

Available in Ubuntu Universe.

9) Installs Frostwire (GPL clone of Limewire)

Not packaged in either, if it's worth using someone should probably file a wishlist bug to have it packaged.

10) Installs multimedia editors (Audacity (audio), Kino (video), EasyTag (ID3))

Audacity is in Universe, Kino is in Ubuntu main but the extra plugins are in Universe. Easytag is in universe.

11) Installs DVD (dvdrip) ripper

dvdrip is in Multiverse.

12) Installs Mplayer and mplayerplug-in version 3.05 for Firefox

Mplayer and the Mozilla plugin are in Multiverse.

13) Installs totem-xine, Realplayer, VLC and Beep Media Player (with docklet)

totem-xine is redundant since totem-gstreamer is installed by default, but it's available in Universe. RealPlayer is in Multiverse. VLC is in Universe. BMP is in Universe, not sure about the docklet.

14) Installs Opera Browser

Non-free and can't be redistributed without permission of Opera.

15) Installs Debian Menu (shows all installed applications) (this kills and restarts your gnome-panel without warning u but its a completely harmless operation!)

menu is in Universe.

16) Installs Bittornado and Azureus (Bittorrent clients)

Bittornado is in main, the GTK GUI for it is in Universe. Azureus is in Debian contrib since it depends on non-free software, so technically it could be packaged for Ubuntu.

17) Installs Avidemux

Avidemux is in Dapper Multiverse.

18) Enables Numlock on (turns numlock on Gnome startup)

No idea what this setting is, but it shouldn't require any extra software.

19) Installs Programming Tools (Anjuta (C/C++ IDE), Bluefish (HTML editor) and Screem (Web Development Env.))

Anjuta is in Universe. Bluefish is in Universe. Screem is in Ubunut main.

20) Install GnomePPP (Graphical Dial up connection tool)

Never heard of GnomePPP, don't know why the normal network config tool wouldn't work.

21) Installs MS true type fonts

msttcorefonts is in Multiverse.

22) Configures ctrl-alt-del to start gnome-system-monitor (aka windows)

No idea what setting this is.

23) Installs Streamripper and Streamtuner

Both are in Universe.

24) Installs NON-FREE audio and dvd codecs

mplayer and VLC both handle those with w32codecs mentioned above, what's the point?

25) Installs ndisgtk (WiFi configurator Graphical user interface)

ndisgtk is in Universe, but should be discouraged anyway since it only works with ndiswrapper.

26) Upgrades Open Office to 2.0 (final version), installs openoffice clipart and installs OO2 thumbnailer. (no support for AMD64 and ppc packages)

O is old in all of their packages, but I can't stand O anyway so I'd rather tell someone to use AbiWord, Gnumeric, etc.

27) Adds 3 nautilus scripts (open any file with gedit as root; open a nautilus window as root in any folder; open gnome search tool in any folder (Right click in a nautilus window and look under "scripts")

If they're that useful and they're not packaged, or even included with Nautilus, they should be.

28) Installs SUN'S JAVA JRE version 1.5
29) Installs SUN'S JAVA JDK version 1.5

java-package is available in Multiverse, yes it's a few extra steps but it works.

30) Installs wine (u need to run winecfg manually after installation)

wine is in Universe.

31) Enables ejection of CD when CDROM drive button is pressed.

This one requires a little more explanantion. The only time the tray should be locked is then the volume is mounted.

32) Installs AMSN 0.95 (MSN client with webcam support)

AMSN is in Universe.

33*) Installs firestarter (GNOME firewall frontend) and adds firestarter to GNOME startup

Firestarter is in Universe.

34*) installs gdesklets (GNOME eyecandy) and adds gdesklets to GNOME startup

GDesklets are in Universe.

35*) Gamepads (Makes USB gamepads work)

This needs more explanation, as long as the USB driver works the device should work.

36*) Turns DMA ON on Intel and AMD machines (needs a restart)

If it's not on by default a bug should be filed or it was turned off for a reason.

37*) NVIDIA cards (Detects Nvidia cards and installs drivers) (Needs a restart)

The nVidia driver and GLX libraries are in restricted.

38*) Adds midi capability to your Ubuntu box (test by playing a midi file with timidity or pmidi from terminal)

Timidi is in Universe, no idea what else would be required.

39*) Installs Firefox 1.5.0.1 and its plugins(themes and extensions are not retained, bookmarks need to be copied from backup folder)

Firefox in main is older, but who cares? I doubt anyone could name a real reason why 1.5.0.1 is needed anyway.

So most of those are irrelevant as the software is available, people are just too lazy to enable the extra repos which is like 3 clicks in Synaptic.

Espeically the issues with firefox 1.5 (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=96595&highlight=firefox no backports and the install process is annoying)

I didn't read the thread, but you should complain to the FF people for making such big changes. FF has been one of the biggest PITA packages in Debian as well.

You have to go enable multiverse repositorys to get it to work, but even then you will have to add some symlinks it to work with firefox 1.5

That's what you get for using an unofficial FF1.5 package.

Of course users that care about 64bit support will be better off with gentoo or maybe debian right now.

Even if you use another distro you'll have exact same problems since java, flash, w32codecs, etc won't work without a ton of 32-bit libs.

But there are a lot of packages (like firefox) that can't be upgraded by ubuntu backports because they are somehow tied into other 'core' features in the os.

It's called backwards compatibility, the FF people don't care about it but usually the distro people do. The Ubuntu devs can't waste time uprooting all of their packages everytime the FF people break something.

However, I want simple apps updated quickly (such as firefox)

You think FF is a simple app? It's 22M installed, hell the mono classlib is only ~13M.

I just think ubuntu is a toy OS designed for new users who dont want or dont need control over their OS. I belive their thought process is 'shutup and do it the ubuntu way'

For the most part the control is there, it's just that people don't want to figure out what needs to be done.

 

[Robor]

Hmmm... Well I'm very new to Linux (as in about 2-3 months) and I found Ubuntu with Automatix almost too easy to get up and running. To be honest I don't use a lot of what Automatix installs but you don't have to install everything. In fact, you have to select what you *do* want installed. The only problem I see with using Ubuntu and Automatix is you don't learn anything. In my previous Linux installs (Fedora Core 4 and Ubuntu before finding Automatix) I had a lot more challenges because this or that didn't work out of the box. As a result I had to search around, read, learn why things weren't working, and find out how to fix them.

In short, I still say Ubuntu and Automatix is as easy as it gets for a new Linux user (but keep in mind my Linux experience is 2-3 months and only 2 distros).

 

[DidlySquat]

SourceNinja is a lier. For every thing that Automatix or easy-ubuntu or any other automated script does, there is a clear and detailed HOWTO page in the Ubuntu forums, or the ubuntu wiki, or the ubuntu guide. There is even a Ubuntu document repository website which has the same HOWTO's as the forums, wiki, and guide. The standard method of operation is to first check the Ubuntu guide (http://easylinux.info/wiki/Ubuntu), then the wiki (<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/</a>), then the document storage facility (http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page), and finally the forums (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/). The forums have the most info but are harder to search, while the guide/wiki are easy to search and have a lot of the most common information (like how to install samba, apache, etc).


I'd say Ubuntu distro has the most online support with a huge community, and that makes it the best distro because it's relatively easy to find the answers and get help. It is also very solid, well thought out and complete distro.

 

[pkme2]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
SourceNinja is a lier. For every thing that Automatix or easy-ubuntu or any other automated script does, there is a clear and detailed HOWTO page in the Ubuntu forums, or the ubuntu wiki, or the ubuntu guide. There is even a Ubuntu document repository website which has the same HOWTO's as the forums, wiki, and guide. The standard method of operation is to first check the Ubuntu guide (http://easylinux.info/wiki/Ubuntu), then the wiki (<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/)">[url]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/)[/url]</a>, then the document storage facility (http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/Main_Page), and finally the forums (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/). The forums have the most info but are harder to search, while the guide/wiki are easy to search and have a lot of the most common information (like how to install samba, apache, etc).


I'd say Ubuntu distro has the most online support with a huge community, and that makes it the best distro because it's relatively easy to find the answers and get help. It is also very solid, well thought out and complete distro.

Ubuntu is the best distro for a noob to start with. It installs easy, and if you follow DidSquat's links, you can get up and running very easily. When you acquire experience, you can work with the other distros, I use Fedora Core 4. There are others available, so you can pick those later. Have fun.

 

[sourceninja]

I'm a liar because I found the info hard to find? Whatever. My point is how easy is it if you have to jump though all those hoops to use. Why can't ubuntu devs get permission from companys to include their free software (such as flash or opera) in such a way as it can be installed without jumping though hoops? Why do I basically NEED a chroot to do anything with ubuntu 64bit, but not gentoo 64bit? Why does konqueror basically have no plugins (like flash) that work?

Ubuntu is a pain in the ass to use. I used to love the distro and recomended it to everyone until I had to actually use it. I spent more time searching guides, howtos, google, forums, wiki's then I ever did with gentoo. Gentoo has simply the best documentation I've ever had to use. I also can find info I need on their forums or google way faster then for ubuntu. Should ubuntu pay to have dvd support? Well, why not start a fund? Why not have some non-us servers? Why force me to use 3rd party repos to get basic desktop functionality only to tell me thats my problem when things dont work right or crash. Example. I want firefox 1.5 so I follow the instructions i'm given. Now no plugins (like flash) work. I ask find out I have to do a few things to get it to work. I post it here, i'm told thats what you get for using a unoffical package. Well no crap! Why is it in the wiki then? Why must everything be a 10 freaking step process in ubuntu. Its not like that in debain. Its not like that in gentoo. Its not even like that in fedora. I'll even pay for a distro that gives me everything I want.

For now I have gentoo. It has everything I want in ~amd64. I want flash in firefox 64 bit. It has it. I want win32codecs it has it. No chroots, no hacks, no 10 step processes or 3rd party repositorys. DVD support, its there. No need to go download it from some unknown/untrusted 3rd party site. Non-free software its there. EULAs? the emerge process displays them for you to agree too. I want 32bit plugins in 64 bit konq, they are there. No hoops, no catches, no need to look for repos to add or instructions on some backwards way to update a peice of software.

Even debain is easier to use then ubuntu. All the software that requires 3rd party repos in ubuntu seems to be in normal repos in debain. The install process is basically the same too. The only thing ubuntu has going for it is that it always has the latest and greatest gnome. I can't even believe Nothing man says to use dapper repos. Using development repos on ubuntu is a sure fire way to break it (i know, i tried it, there are MANY differences between dapper and the 5.10. Either dist-upgrade or keep away from dapper).

I'm not saying the answer to noobs is gentoo. That would be stupid, but I will say this about ubuntu. Ubuntu was a great OS, now it has reached its peak and is slowly degenrating into a politcal a nd technological mess. But I still use its liveCD to install gentoo.

 

[earthman]

I use Ubuntu with a D-Link wireless card. You have to make sure you get a card that has a supported chipset, no matter what distro you use. Zyxel may or may not cut it, I couldn't find any support for it. The Ubuntu wireless setup was fairly simple. The othe guy is right though, Ubuntu software support is not great, I couldn't even get Opera to work. Oh well.

 

[Robor]

I don't have near your Linux experience but using Automatix with Ubuntu was pretty easy. Do I actually know everything Automatix is doing 'behind the scenes'? Honestly, the answer is no. But it worked and that's all I care about.

Also, if I remember correctly Fedora Core 4 doesn't have DVD or Win32Codec support out of the box either.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: earthman
I use Ubuntu with a D-Link wireless card. You have to make sure you get a card that has a supported chipset, no matter what distro you use. Zyxel may or may not cut it, I couldn't find any support for it. The Ubuntu wireless setup was fairly simple. The othe guy is right though, Ubuntu software support is not great, I couldn't even get Opera to work. Oh well.

Opera can be installed through Automatix. I have it on my Ubuntu 5.10 install and it works fine. Here's my version info:

Version information
Version 8.51
Build 1462
Platform Linux
System i686, 2.6.12-9-386
Qt library 3.3.4
Java Java Runtime Environment installed
Browser identification

Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; X11; Linux i686; en) Opera 8.51

 

[DidlySquat]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I'm a liar because I found the info hard to find? Whatever. My point is how easy is it if you have to jump though all those hoops to use. Why can't ubuntu devs get permission from companys to include their free software (such as flash or opera) in such a way as it can be installed without jumping though hoops? Why do I basically NEED a chroot to do anything with ubuntu 64bit, but not gentoo 64bit? Why does konqueror basically have no plugins (like flash) that work?

Ubuntu is a pain in the ass to use. I used to love the distro and recomended it to everyone until I had to actually use it. I spent more time searching guides, howtos, google, forums, wiki's then I ever did with gentoo. Gentoo has simply the best documentation I've ever had to use. I also can find info I need on their forums or google way faster then for ubuntu. Should ubuntu pay to have dvd support? Well, why not start a fund? Why not have some non-us servers? Why force me to use 3rd party repos to get basic desktop functionality only to tell me thats my problem when things dont work right or crash. Example. I want firefox 1.5 so I follow the instructions i'm given. Now no plugins (like flash) work. I ask find out I have to do a few things to get it to work. I post it here, i'm told thats what you get for using a unoffical package. Well no crap! Why is it in the wiki then? Why must everything be a 10 freaking step process in ubuntu. Its not like that in debain. Its not like that in gentoo. Its not even like that in fedora. I'll even pay for a distro that gives me everything I want.

For now I have gentoo. It has everything I want in ~amd64. I want flash in firefox 64 bit. It has it. I want win32codecs it has it. No chroots, no hacks, no 10 step processes or 3rd party repositorys. DVD support, its there. No need to go download it from some unknown/untrusted 3rd party site. Non-free software its there. EULAs? the emerge process displays them for you to agree too. I want 32bit plugins in 64 bit konq, they are there. No hoops, no catches, no need to look for repos to add or instructions on some backwards way to update a peice of software.

Even debain is easier to use then ubuntu. All the software that requires 3rd party repos in ubuntu seems to be in normal repos in debain. The install process is basically the same too. The only thing ubuntu has going for it is that it always has the latest and greatest gnome. I can't even believe Nothing man says to use dapper repos. Using development repos on ubuntu is a sure fire way to break it (i know, i tried it, there are MANY differences between dapper and the 5.10. Either dist-upgrade or keep away from dapper).

I'm not saying the answer to noobs is gentoo. That would be stupid, but I will say this about ubuntu. Ubuntu was a great OS, now it has reached its peak and is slowly degenrating into a politcal a nd technological mess. But I still use its liveCD to install gentoo.

Ok, your point is well taken, I just meant you were wrong when you said "Another problem with easy ubuntu and automatrix is that the ubuntu forums wont really tell you how to do it by hand, they just tend to point at these tools.". That is inorrect because there really is a howto for everything that automatix is doing, and many experienced users prefer to manually follow the howto's instead of using automatix because they don't want use a program which is doing things they don't know and also don't trust the way its doing it.

BTW, you got me interested in gentoo because I thinking of installing a 64-bit linux, and last time I tried Ubuntu 64-bit there were lots of missing things and dead ends so I gave up on it. So maybe I will try gentoo 64-bit this time. Can you tell what doesn't work there ? Maybe cedega, wine or plugins/codecs ?