Linux going mainstream?

[Davegod]

HARDWARE FIRM Dell will sell desktop based Linux from Lindows.

The units will be shipped in Europe through a partnership with Questar, which will pre-install English or Italian versions of Linspire 4.5 and bundle Dell's gold technical support.

The desktops will include Openoffice software and people who buy a Dell will get one year membership of Lindows' Warehouse, which lists 1,800 programs.

continued...

 

[mattg1981]

The Lindows Warehouse includes a membership (I believe) to http://www.transgaming.com/ ... which allows you to play ALOT of pc games on Linux ...

 

[groovin]

this is a small (but important) step towards linux going mainstream. it wont truly be mainstream until its easy enough for grandma to use.

 

[Nothinman]

this is a small (but important) step towards linux going mainstream. it wont truly be mainstream until its easy enough for grandma to use.

By that defintion and at the current rate of development it'll be 'mainstream' before Windows.

 

[mattg1981]

lol ....

I always thought that it was difficult to learn ... In fact, I tried it out when Red Hat 9 was brand new and I gave up on it. This last semester, I HAD to learn it for school .. and to tell you the truth, I didnt have any problems doing so, I dont know what my problem was back then and I dont know why so many people have trouble now of days.

 

[Booty]

I think there's a big difference between enthusiasts attempting to learn Linux and your everyday user attempting to use Linux. To the type of users on these forums, it's a more difficult task because you want/need to learn the ins and outs of how to install/configure hardware, setup networking, etc. For the average user, the only thing they have to learn is how to navigate the GUI... and, really, I think that there isn't a whole lot of difference between Mac OS, Windows, or Linux window managers/desktop environments. Most of them have, essentially, a 'start menu' and desktop shortcuts... it's pretty easy to just sit down and use any of them.

The only thing I think needs to come along a ways is installing/uninstalling software under Linux... but I think retail software packages will make that easier. I mean, look at NVidia's driver installer... that thing's pretty much as straight forward as any Windows installer, and isn't distro-specific. When software gets easier to install, update, and/or remove, Linux will be ready for the mainstream. It's ready to be used right now... just not ready to be administered by your average Joe. Although, I still think that's a good thing... it's too easy for average users to completely hose Windows... but that's another rant, I guess.

Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[groovin]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

this is a small (but important) step towards linux going mainstream. it wont truly be mainstream until its easy enough for grandma to use.

By that defintion and at the current rate of development it'll be 'mainstream' before Windows.

i guess there are many grandmas that cant use windows let alone linux.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: groovin

Originally posted by: Nothinman

this is a small (but important) step towards linux going mainstream. it wont truly be mainstream until its easy enough for grandma to use.

By that defintion and at the current rate of development it'll be 'mainstream' before Windows.

i guess there are many grandmas that cant use windows let alone linux.

You take "grandma", hand her a Windows install CDROM, a PC, and a cable modem and see how far she gets.
Do the same thing with a Linux install CDROM and I'd bet she'd get just as far.

At least if she does successfully press "enter" 12-20 times and get either one installed then I won't have to worry about the Linux machine being turned into a host to give me spyware.

Personally I'd rather have "grandma" on a Linux machine, rather then a Windows machine, because I can log in thru SSH and run updates, rather then having to drive out to her house every couple weeks just to run some anti-spyware, install virus scanners, and update the Windows machine.

I don't see anything much more difficult running Mozilla and Evolution/Thunderbird on a Linux box vs IE and Outlook Express on a Windows XP box.

If "grandma" is capable of it on one side then she'll be capable of it on the other side.


You see 80% of the difficulties you encounter with Linux is going to be setting up hardware. Video drivers are a pain, as are certian motherboards. This isn't because Linux is inherently harder to use on a desktop per-say, but it the lack of manufacturer support.

Buy having OEMs officially support Linux then you get into a place were you know the hardware will always be 100% (well as close to it, nothing is perfect) for that machine that was sent with Linux pre-installed. They wouldn't configure it any other way. In the proccess of building the machine the OEM's make sure that everything is working and supported well.

This in turn means that they pick well supported hardware not only for thier Linux machines but for the similarly configured Windows machines (why have 2 seperate versions?), so that manufacturers will realise that they have no need to hide their hardware behind crappy driver support.

But on the flip side, they had to use a pisant distro like Lindows. er Linspire, which I don't like to much. Mostly because their default setup of no-multi-user/root-is-used-by-default for users is stupid and dangerous, Other then that I don't have a problem with their stuff, but I see it as indicative of their attitude, which is very close to the one MS has about user-ease vs user-security and safety.

 

[Nothinman]

i guess there are many grandmas that cant use windows let alone linux.

Exactly, they're in the same starting position no matter what software is involved. If you start completey from scratch, teaching someone how to use Windows or Linux would be almost exactly the same.

 

[silverpig]

Linux is really easy to use so long as you don't have to install anything new.

Double clicking the firefox icon is just as easy in linux as it is in windows.

 

[Nothinman]

Linux is really easy to use so long as you don't have to install anything new.

And even then it's generally easier as long as you have something like apt setup, the big problem is knowing _what_ to install.

 

[civad]

originally posted by: Nothinman
And even then it's generally easier as long as you have something like apt setup, the big problem is knowing _what_ to install.

Thats the keyword.. apt

Though I would edit it to "as long as you HAVE apt setup"

 

[Nothinman]

Thats the keyword.. apt

Though I would edit it to "as long as you HAVE apt setup"

And Linspire/Lindows, what Dell will be using, has APT with some Add/Remove Programs on Steroids front-end.

 

[tm37]

The issue comes onto when grandma needs a little help. The fact is there are way omore people that think they knwo windows than that know linux. I can think of a million reasons that linux would be better for a LIGHT user that wants to email and/or browse the web. BUt here comes the problem. Does AOL work on linux? Can I get that cool 3D house planner program @ walmart for linux? Linux is great and may very well be the future of the household desktop. But until Walmart or bestbuy start selling easy to use programs Windows will remain the leader with a lion share of the market.

 

[mattg1981]

Originally posted by: Booty
The only thing I think needs to come along a ways is installing/uninstalling software under Linux... but I think retail software packages will make that easier.

I used to fully agree 100% .. they need to just make a file where you double click and *poof* .. you have it installed. Then I found out about apt-get for FC2 and it does everything ... downloads, installs, checks dependencies, checks for updates, etc etc.

 

[mattg1981]

Originally posted by: drag
But on the flip side, they had to use a pisant distro like Lindows. er Linspire, which I don't like to much. Mostly because their default setup of no-multi-user/root-is-used-by-default for users is stupid and dangerous, Other then that I don't have a problem with their stuff, but I see it as indicative of their attitude, which is very close to the one MS has about user-ease vs user-security and safety.

exactly what I was going to say but I held back ... I have the Lindows 4.5 professional cd when they were giving it away for free ... and I was not impressed with it at all ... they try too hard to be like windows IMO

 

[mattg1981]

Originally posted by: tm37
The issue comes onto when grandma needs a little help. The fact is there are way omore people that think they knwo windows than that know linux. I can think of a million reasons that linux would be better for a LIGHT user that wants to email and/or browse the web. BUt here comes the problem. Does AOL work on linux? Can I get that cool 3D house planner program @ walmart for linux? Linux is great and may very well be the future of the household desktop. But until Walmart or bestbuy start selling easy to use programs Windows will remain the leader with a lion share of the market.

Actually alot of games are starting go be released for Linux (UT2K4, Americas Army, Doom III ....) ... I think that game companies know there is a big market in the Linux world for gamers and are starting to write their games better so they are not windows dependent.

 

[sharq]

What is the big deal with desktop adoption of Linux? Linux zealots/geeks/advocates (whatever you wanna call em) are pushing to get Linux adopted on the desktop, why? Linux is not for everyone. Bottom line that it comes down to is the command line, not everyone is comfortable playing on the command line, and the rest don't want to. So maybe it should be focused on being a corporate/server alternative to MS/Mac/Sun, and not an alternative to XP Home.
I use Linux as my OS of choice, but only cause I'm pretty much a geek when it comes to computers. I would never install it on my parents PC.
Plus, the argument that there are no spyware or viruses for Linux is only temporary. Once it goes "mainstream" (as everyone seems to want) there will be just as many problems with it. Linux is a great OS and all, but there are just as many flaws to it as Windows, only difference is that patches/fixes are released faster in Linux. But then the problem becomes the human user. Not every Linux machine is patched in a timely manner, so making it just as bad as a Windows machine for the intruder to cause harm/pain to others.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: mattg1981

Originally posted by: tm37
The issue comes onto when grandma needs a little help. The fact is there are way omore people that think they knwo windows than that know linux. I can think of a million reasons that linux would be better for a LIGHT user that wants to email and/or browse the web. BUt here comes the problem. Does AOL work on linux? Can I get that cool 3D house planner program @ walmart for linux? Linux is great and may very well be the future of the household desktop. But until Walmart or bestbuy start selling easy to use programs Windows will remain the leader with a lion share of the market.

Actually alot of games are starting go be released for Linux (UT2K4, Americas Army, Doom III ....) ... I think that game companies know there is a big market in the Linux world for gamers and are starting to write their games better so they are not windows dependent.

BUT grandma does not play games she uses WORKS for crist sake.

She also saw her bridge club pal had a handy doliey program that was just devine.

 

[Nothinman]

What is the big deal with desktop adoption of Linux? Linux zealots/geeks/advocates (whatever you wanna call em) are pushing to get Linux adopted on the desktop, why? Linux is not for everyone.

Because we would like a market with some real competition?

Bottom line that it comes down to is the command line, not everyone is comfortable playing on the command line, and the rest don't want to. So maybe it should be focused on being a corporate/server alternative to MS/Mac/Sun, and not an alternative to XP Home.

Problem with that is a lot of people use a computer at home to work, so they run all the same things.

Plus, the argument that there are no spyware or viruses for Linux is only temporary. Once it goes "mainstream" (as everyone seems to want) there will be just as many problems with it.

This I disagree with and even if stupid things like gator do get ported and find a way to trick Mozilla into installing them behind the user's back, they'll be a lot easier to remove and track down.

Linux is a great OS and all, but there are just as many flaws to it as Windows

Right, when was the last remote root exploit for Linux? How about for Windows? MS had to completely redo their RPC system because it was so poorly written the first time.

Not every Linux machine is patched in a timely manner, so making it just as bad as a Windows machine for the intruder to cause harm/pain to others.

I can't remember the last patch that actually affected something I use on any of my Linux machines. Part of that is because I run Debian so pretty much all the updates are seamless and 'just work', but I'm on the Debian-security list and updates for things like pavuk, rlpr, www-sql, etc just don't matter for desktop users.

BUT grandma does not play games she uses WORKS for crist sake.

Grandma uses what she's given, she calls Windows, Office, IE, etc all 'Microsoft' for christ's sake. If you give her a Linux box with Abiword to replace Works, I doubt she'll care much.

She also saw her bridge club pal had a handy doliey program that was just devine.

And the other pal has a Mac and she loved iDVD, that doesn't mean she'll go out and buy it without talking to anyone first and if she does she deserves to have to return it.

 

[tm37]

What I am saying is that until the major software developers start making linux programs availble it will be hard for the mainstream to latch on.

Also which linux distro to use? There are countless threads on which distro is right for me, debian, fedora, mandrake, or suse? I meen it is enough to make you loopy.

 

[Nothinman]

And it will be hard for major software developers to start making linux programs until the mainstream latches on, see the problem? Windows/DOS got all the program way back when becaue it was all there was, now anything new has to work against a lot of momentum. Luckily unix is really popular in the business sector, it's giving Linux a great way to stretch it's legs and get the name out there.

Also which linux distro to use? There are countless threads on which distro is right for me, debian, fedora, mandrake, or suse? I meen it is enough to make you loopy.

In 99% of the cases it doesn't matter, anything that runs on one distro will run on the rest. Sort of like deciding whether to install Win2K or XP, it's basically a personal preferance.

 

[tm37]

Plus lets add this.

I have two comps in my "room" My wife has started using the second in my room that is a dual boot fedora and XP. I did the dual boot so when I has friends over we could play lan games.

Now when I leave the fedora up, which I prefer for most stuff My wife always asks me if she can boot to XP. It seems that ZUMA does not work in fedora. Also pokerroom.com and a few other web based stuff she likes to do.

Most companies are not going to spend the MONEY to develop these projects on linux for a 5% possible market share. why would they?

Now I do have GAIM to replace trillian but for the wife other than browsing the web linux is to different.

 

[Nothinman]

Oddly pokerroom.com has an icon on the bottom left that insinuates it works on Windows, Macs and Linux. I don't have an account to login with so I can't be sure, but I would assume that means it's either java or flash, both of which do work in Linux. Zuma is ActiveX so there's no chance of that working and I must say that it's the first 'real' use of ActiveX on a website outside of WU.

Most companies are not going to spend the MONEY to develop these projects on linux for a 5% possible market share. why would they?

Because if they used java from the beginning they wouldn't have to spend any extra money on it.

Now I do have GAIM to replace trillian but for the wife other than browsing the web linux is to different.

Well considering that I would estimate that 40-60% of a non-gamer's time is spent browsing the web, reading email and IM'ing, I would say Linux isn't that far off after all.

 

[silverpig]

Linux is definitely progressing on the installing/uninstalling front though.

.tar.gz files used to be about it. Not much fun really.

Then .rpm came along. Better, but dependencies suck.

apt-get is good as it's gotten rid of all the dependency checking.

gentoo's portage rocks </bias>

New portage based distros are coming out, and they'll probably improve on things over gentoo's system. Then someone will combine portage with a clickable gui type thing and you're off.