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Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
32
81
Note: If you are or have ever served with the United States Armed Forces, this thread is NOT directed at you.

Last weeked, I started reading the NY Times Bestseller, Flags of Our Fathers by James Bradley. This book is about the Marine invasion of the Japanese island Iwo Jima as told by the son of one of the men who raised the flag on that island.

Now, I am not one who cries easily, but by page 12 I was in tears. I am now half way through the book, and if you thought the Normandy Invasion or Battle of Bastogne were horrific, you NEED to read this book. If you admired LT. Ronald C. Speirs from Band of Brothers, then you'll also admire just one of the many men described in a paragraph in this book:

How they got there was a portrait of American victory in microcosm. They got there with courage best exemplified by Tony Stein's head-long charge.

Stein was a twenty-three-year-old corporal from Dayton who became the first Medal of Honor winner on Iwo. For the risky mission he'd armed himself with a stinger gun, a light machine gun he'd taken from an airplane and adapted into a rapid-fire gun. When his comrades were stalled on their dash by concentrated Japanese fire, Stein stood upright, drawing the enemy's fire and allowing his buddies to get into position. But Stein was just getting warmed up. His next move was to charge the nearby Japanese pillboxes, alone. He did it several times, killing twenty of the enemy in close-range combat. Out of ammunition, he threw off his helmet and shoes and hurried barefoot to the beach to resupply himself. He did this eight times, carrying a wounded man to safety on each trip. Later in the day he covered the withdrawal of this platoon to the company position, though his weapon was shot from his hands twice (p. 166-167).


Twenty-three-years-old! Younger than me! Speirs, Stein, so many names of brave men. 566 men died and 1,775 were wounded during that first day of battle on Iwo Jima...and the battle would rage for thirty-five more days!

---

You can't help but be inspired by such acts of bravery, and you can't help but think about the boys and girls in the foxholes in Iraq and Afghanistan today. And for me at least, I can't help feeling guilty for having such a cushy life: nice house, fun car, great job, nice computers, an online forum to post on, while men and women have died and are dying to secure the freedoms I enjoy.

Just wondering if anyone else experiences similar feelings.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
32
81
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.

Well, tell me, did you read the above exerpt about Tony Stein? I bet you hate men that like that.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,741
569
126
I feel sorry for all the people in the armed forces being sent on this dangerous wild goose chase that really doesn't benefit the US. But I don't feel guilty for not being one of them. I knew what the armed forces were about and that they might end up doing things I didn't agree with so I chose not to join them. I can only assume they had to make the same decision and were aware of the consequences as well.

Edit: now that the title has been changed, I see more of what the real question was.

Spiers was an amazing guy, almost crazy. I might have to pick that book up. You don't hear as much about the pacific theatre, but it was really a tougher campaign if you ask me. My grandfather was in the pacific, and from the history I know I would have much rather been fighting the germans.
 

lowfatbaconboy

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
1,796
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.

i agree with this part
if it were something like WWI or II then i wouldn't mind but this is different its like the vietnam of our generation
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.

Well, tell me, did you read the above exerpt about Tony Stein? I bet you hate men that like that.

I read MANY books on WWII during my school years. A movie that gave me chills was To Hell And Back, about Audie Murphy. I was ever amazed at the bravery of our soldiers. I still am. Even by the ones serving in Iraq. But do I feel guilty about not being in Iraq? Not at all.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?

Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Note: If you are or have ever served with the United States Armed Forces, this thread is NOT for you.

Last weeked, I started reading the NY Times Bestseller, Flags of Our Fathers by James Bradley. This book is about the Marine invasion of the Japanese island Iwo Jima as told by the son of one of the men who raised the flag on that island.

Now, I am not one who cries easily, but by page 12 I was in tears. I am now half way through the book, and if you thought the Normandy Invasion or Battle of Bastogne were horrific, you NEED to read this book. If you admired LT. Ronald C. Speirs from Band of Brothers, then you'll also admire just one of the many men described in a paragraph in this book:

How they got there was a portrait of American victory in microcosm. They got there with courage best exemplified by Tony Stein's head-long charge.

Stein was a twenty-three-year-old corporal from Dayton who became the first Medal of Honor winner on Iwo. For the risky mission he'd armed himself with a stinger gun, a light machine gun he'd taken from an airplane and adapted into a rapid-fire gun. When his comrades were stalled on their dash by concentrated Japanese fire, Stein stood upright, drawing the enemy's fire and allowing his buddies to get into position. But Stein was just getting warmed up. His next move was to charge the nearby Japanese pillboxes, alone. He did it several times, killing twenty of the enemy in close-range combat. Out of ammunition, he threw off his helmet and shoes and hurried barefoot to the beach to resupply himself. He did this eight times, carrying a wounded man to safety on each trip. Later in the day he covered the the withdrawal of this platoon to the company position, though his weapon was shot from his hands twice.


Twenty-three-years-old! Younger than me! Speirs, Stein, so many names of brave men. 566 men died and 1,775 were wounded during that first day of battle on Iwo Jima...and the battle would rage for thirty-five more days!

---

You can't help but be inspired by such acts of bravery, and you can't help but think about the boys and girls in the foxholes in Iraq and Afghanistan today. And for me at least, I can't help feeling guilty for having such a cushy life: nice house, fun car, great job, nice computers, an online forum to post on, while men and women have died and are dying to secure the freedoms I enjoy.

Just wondering if anyone else experiences similar feelings.

There is absolutely nothing glorious about the war....
 

Mandos

Banned
May 20, 2004
1,478
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.

I agree with this man. And no I Do not hate men like stein. If I could, I'd be in Iraq, but I'm not. I'm here, raising my family and living a normal life.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
81
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?
Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.

WTF are you jumping on him about? What did he say that makes you think he is acting like a tool? He was responding to the OP saying he felt guilty.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: Thraxen
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?
Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.

WTF are you jumping on him about? What did he say that makes you think he is acting like a tool? He was responding to the OP saying he felt guilty.
Well, maybe I over-reacted, but when people get on their anti-war bandwagon in a thread about the soldiers and not the politics behind their mission, my hot button gets pushed.
 

azazyel

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2000
5,872
1
81
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
32
81
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: Thraxen
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?
Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.

WTF are you jumping on him about? What did he say that makes you think he is acting like a tool? He was responding to the OP saying he felt guilty.
Well, maybe I over-reacted, but when people get on their anti-war bandwagon in a thread about the soldiers and not the politics behind their mission, my hot button gets pushed.

Exactly!
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
John Stewart Mill
of his own free will
on a half a pint of brandy
was particularly ill...:music:

That is a great quote, btw...
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
31
91
I really wish people would stop saying such ignorant things as 'OUR VIETNAM'.

Anyone who says that has no idea what they're talking about. Go read a history book or find a person who was alive at the time. Stop repeating your Democratic leadership's propaganda and think for yourself JUST ONCE.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?

Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.

You beg my pardon???? Where do you get off calling me a tool?? :|

Why should I feel guilty because someone is over in Iraq right now? Even if the war was justified, why should I feel guilty?

I said I'm proud of our servicemen and women (Well, 99.99% of them) and the officers under whom they serve. But I don't feel guilty about it. They chose to volunteer for service. I didn't. I'm even beyond the age at which I could enlist. But, 2 1/2 years ago I wasn't and would gladly have gone to Afghanistan had the need arisen for additional people to enlist.


Get off of your high horse.
 

Mandos

Banned
May 20, 2004
1,478
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Mwilding
Originally posted by: conjur
I don't feel guilty at all.

I don't think we should have even gone in.


I was willing to go to Afghanistan for the REAL war on terror had the need arisen but not for this fubar operation.
What does your post have to do with the bravery of American soldiers of the past and now?

Nothing, other than to demonstrate that brave men had bled and died to give you the right to be a tool.

You beg my pardon???? Where do you get off calling me a tool?? :|

Why should I feel guilty because someone is over in Iraq right now? Even if the war was justified, why should I feel guilty?

I said I'm proud of our servicemen and women (Well, 99.99% of them) and the officers under whom they serve. But I don't feel guilty about it. They chose to volunteer for service. I didn't. I'm even beyond the age at which I could enlist. But, 2 1/2 years ago I wasn't and would gladly have gone to Afghanistan had the need arisen for additional people to enlist.


Get off of your high horse.

w00t
 
Dec 27, 2001
11,272
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
You beg my pardon???? Where do you get off calling me a tool?? :|
H'es not the only one. ;)
Why should I feel guilty because someone is over in Iraq right now? Even if the war was justified, why should I feel guilty?
They're serving THEIR COUNTRY...not a politcal party...like you.
I said I'm proud of our servicemen and women (Well, 99.99% of them) and the officers under whom they serve. But I don't feel guilty about it. They chose to volunteer for service. I didn't. I'm even beyond the age at which I could enlist. But, 2 1/2 years ago I wasn't and would gladly have gone to Afghanistan had the need arisen for additional people to enlist.

I'm the same. The only reason I didn't enlist is because I have a wife and family I'd prefer to be with, but if I get drafted or we're running out of men (neither is going to happen) I'll proudly join so I don't feel guilty, but I am extremely grateful for their sacrifice.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: conjur
You beg my pardon???? Where do you get off calling me a tool?? :|
H'es not the only one. ;)
Cute. :p


Why should I feel guilty because someone is over in Iraq right now? Even if the war was justified, why should I feel guilty?
They're serving THEIR COUNTRY...not a politcal party...like you.
And which party would that be? Hmmm????


I said I'm proud of our servicemen and women (Well, 99.99% of them) and the officers under whom they serve. But I don't feel guilty about it. They chose to volunteer for service. I didn't. I'm even beyond the age at which I could enlist. But, 2 1/2 years ago I wasn't and would gladly have gone to Afghanistan had the need arisen for additional people to enlist.

I'm the same. The only reason I didn't enlist is because I have a wife and family I'd prefer to be with, but if I get drafted or we're running out of men (neither is going to happen) I'll proudly join so I don't feel guilty, but I am extremely grateful for their sacrifice.
I have daughters and was married at the time, too. I was also running a small business but I was still willing to go.
 

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
2,838
1
0
I'm in another nation's Armed Forces...If my nation needs me to go overseas and fight, I'll do it.

Why?

Because people recognize Canadian troops...they know we're the good guys. As long as I'm not wearing a blue helmet, I won't get shot at.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
32
81
Please remember, aside from my question, the purpose of this thread was to also promote a wonderful book, one many here would enjoy.