Lieberman Flip-Flip (with video!)

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ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,133
219
106
And with all these problems in Washington, "the left", the "progressives" just want to spend all their time and effort on demonizing Lieberman


Well, what is the difference between a dem and repug? Nothing they are both corrupt...

I agree to it all, but I also agree that the health care bill is important and everyone should have access to it. So... It's just a few old fucks bickering trying to get their mugs on the news.

Joy...

Lets get it on and get it passed... Something good for the people for a change? Hopefully. I've always wanted to do something good for the people and I think it's about time we try to at least.

My Opinion I guess. If any other president we have had in history took the same stand I'd be backing him/her as well.
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Lets get it on and get it passed... Something good for the people for a change? Hopefully. I've always wanted to do something good for the people and I think it's about time we try to at least.

I want them to do something that's good for us too, but the Democrats have not done a damn thing to make be believe their legislation, in any of the forms it has taken throughout the process, will be a beneficial change.

To throw out a "problem" as an analogy, say your "crisis" is an aching back, and you need to "fix" it. One "plan" would be to whack your spine with a hammer. Or you could choose to stay with the "status quo". Your back hurts and you certainly don't want to stick with the status quo, but you're looking at the only solution available to you...

Bottom line, the world does not run on good intentions. Just because the Democrats intend to do good things, does not mean they have the capacity to achieve it.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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As this past evening I decided to check out how MSNBC was handling the Lieberman story and other events - they certainly seem to be in desperation mode or something, I mean WOW! have they really stepped up the personal attacks on anything and everything!

But seriously, they're going around stating that everyone who doesn't agree with them are shills to corporate payouts...

Isn't that what they are? Olbermann, Maddow, Schultz, Matthews, all receive their paycheck from G.E., a corporation who stands ready to receive very lucrative contracts from the government to carry out the proposed reforms. Can anybody still take these clowns seriously? How do you separate out their intentions from their own paychecks?
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,281
0
0
As this past evening I decided to check out how MSNBC was handling the Lieberman story and other events - they certainly seem to be in desperation mode or something, I mean WOW! have they really stepped up the personal attacks on anything and everything!

...
I imagine fox watchers think the intense attack mode is normal news reporting.:!!:.
 

colonel

Golden Member
Apr 22, 2001
1,777
18
81
wake up people, Joe is being paid here in my state for insurers, and health care business.He got re elected because of the power of these companies in the state. Dont blame the people of Connecticut for his flip flop.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81

We were sold out from the start on healthcare. If President Obama was truely serious about helping people why would he be making a sweet closed door deal with big pharma before the negotiations even began?? WTF???

The second problem was they threw single payer under the bus immediately which totally blew away his base.

There has been nothing but concessions going only one way which has watered down this bill to big lump of shit. In fact, the way the bill stands in the Senate right now it is going to cost the average american a hell of alot more in healthcare. Plus there will be a mandate that everyone buys this lump of shit which will make the insurance cartel even fatter at the expense of America's health.

The last point I have to make is President Obama really that naive to think that he can get any good faith bipartainship negotiations with the GOP. I mean come on....a fucking 2nd grader watching Cspan could have gathered that much. :(

One more thought:

I think what Howard Dean is doing is giving the Dems a "wake up" call and it is really pissing them off. I say it's about fucking time...
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
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We were sold out from the start on healthcare. If President Obama was truely serious about helping people why would he be making a sweet closed door deal with big pharma before the negotiations even began?? WTF???

The second problem was they threw single payer under the bus immediately which totally blew away his base.

There has been nothing but concessions going only one way which has watered down this bill to big lump of shit. In fact, the way the bill stands in the Senate right now it is going to cost the average american a hell of alot more in healthcare. Plus there will be a mandate that everyone buys this lump of shit which will make the insurance cartel even fatter at the expense of America's health.

The last point I have to make is President Obama really that naive to think that he can get any good faith bipartainship negotiations with the GOP. I mean come on....a fucking 2nd grader watching Cspan could have gathered that much. :(

One more thought:

I think what Howard Dean is doing is giving the Dems a "wake up" call and it is really pissing them off. I say it's about fucking time...
That's for sure...I imagine that they're more than a little PO'ed about being totally left out of the process from the git go. Funny how that works.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
That's for sure...I imagine that they're more than a little PO'ed about being totally left out of the process from the git go. Funny how that works.
That's the new definition of bipartisanship, one party's lobbyists write a bill and the other party is offered a bipartisan opportunity to help pass it.

Silly Democrats, refusing to dismantle our health care system just to stay in power, pretending that adults actually know what's best for themselves when everyone knows that career politicians really know best. /sarcasm
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
That's the new definition of bipartisanship, one party's lobbyists write a bill and the other party is offered a bipartisan opportunity to help pass it.

Silly Democrats, refusing to dismantle our health care system just to stay in power, pretending that adults actually know what's best for themselves when everyone knows that career politicians really know best. /sarcasm

The GOP never had no intentions at all negotiating in good faith and furthermore they don't give a rat's ass about reform this was apparent with the lame outcome of the "Gang of six" lame bill.

One good thing to come out of this fucked up mess is now Americans know who is owned by big pharma and the insurance cartel.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The GOP never had no intentions at all negotiating in good faith and furthermore they don't give a rat's ass about reform this was apparent with the lame outcome of the "Gang of six" lame bill.

One good thing to come out of this fucked up mess is now Americans know who is owned by big pharma and the insurance cartel.

Ah, so it's okay for Democrats to present Republicans with a fait accompli because the Democrats in Their infinite wisdom know the Republicans wouldn't negotiate in good faith anyway. And it's okay to say reform when you mean big government collectivism. Because like all liberals, you know what is best for us all, you just need our money to accomplish it. Gotcha.

If the Republicans are owned by big pharma and the insurance cartel, then the Democrats are clearly owned by big government and ACORN. Stalin would be proud.
 

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,215
14
81
Ah, so it's okay for Democrats to present Republicans with a fait accompli because the Democrats in Their infinite wisdom know the Republicans wouldn't negotiate in good faith anyway. And it's okay to say reform when you mean big government collectivism. Because like all liberals, you know what is best for us all, you just need our money to accomplish it. Gotcha.

If the Republicans are owned by big pharma and the insurance cartel, then the Democrats are clearly owned by big government and ACORN. Stalin would be proud.

:rolleyes: lame response by a GOP fanboi are you in touch with reality?
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0

Interesting article, but it is speculation. Some of the author's comments are downright silly, like rhetorically wondering why the White House criticizes Howard Dean but not Lieberman, Lincoln or Nelson when the latter are the ones trashing the public option. Gee, could it be that Lieberman, Lincoln and Nelson have voting rights in the Senate and therefore pissing them off right now is a bad idea if they want to get a bill passed, whereas Dean has no vote but is opposing the bill?

While there's some evidence that a deal was cut with Big Pharma to close some of the Medicare Part D doughnut hole in exchange for Big Pharma supporting the bill, the evidence of White House complicity with the insurance industry is sketchier. For one thing, the insurance industry has been opposing the legislation for months now, and running adds to sway public opinion against it. While this posturing against the bill may be a phoney ploy by the industry, it nevertheless seems inconsistent with the theory that they came to an early agreement with the White House.

More likely, Obama met with the industry early on and they told him they were opposed to the public option and believed that they had sufficient sway to kill any bill that included it. Obama then took a cautious tac in how he handled the issue rhetorically. He basically said he supported the idea, but it was optional. That way he would not be locked into the vetoing the bill if the industry did succeed in getting it weeded out. Note that in the early part of the debate after the cloture vote, the White House was signalling the Senate to go with the trigger public option as a compromise, not to kill the public option. This is consistent with Obama wanting the public option but trying to effect a compromise to pass the bill with as much reform as possible, not with a pre-agreement with the industry to kill the public option.

The ditching of the Medicare expansion is also inconsistent with the pre-agreement theory. That expansion would have cost the industry only a few million customers, who were expensive to service anyway. There is no real reason they should have been opposed to it like they were the public option. It appears, rather, that it really was jettisoned because Lieberman was intractable, which in turn is inconsistent with the notion that Obama could just make every Senator do his bidding.

So Russ Feingold says that this "appears" to be what Obama wanted all along, meaning he is making an assumption based on Obama's lukewarm endorsement of it publically rather than any insider information. And Feingold is clearly pissed that the White House apparently hasn't taken a stronger stance on the issue. Doesn't mean much of anything.

What I think happened here is that Obama was aware of what happened when the Clintons tried to pass a health bill. They drafted the bill, took a rigid position on it, and tried to shepard it through Congress. It not only failed, but blew up in their faces. Obama was determined to take the opposite approach this time, and for all the awful compromises he has gotten much farther than the Clintons ever did.

It may be that this bill has been neutered to the point where progressives should just kill it. However, where the blame lies is not entirely clear.

- wolf