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Lexus loses top spot to Jaguar and Buick
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JulesMaximus
No Lifer
IS250 and no, no rattles that I've noticed. It's a pretty tight car...then again, I ride a motorcycle too. :laugh:
I know about the fuel line recall but I don't think ours was affected. Either that or they fixed it when we had it in for routine service.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
There are a couple that I could think of too but the IS is my wife's car, she wanted that car so that's what she got. None of the cars I would consider are American cars though.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
Taking your car in constantly because of problems is not something you want in a new car. You want it to work properly everytime you take it for a drive. You want to have confidence that it's not going to break down and leave you stranded on the side of the road. Warranties are meaningless as far as those things are concerned.
PricklyPete
Lifer
How would paying someone hourly speed the process up? I could see if there were bonuses based on time to complete...but if they are just hourly...they are just as likely to take their sweet time.
Edit: I just noticed you said "book value" which makes more sense...so disregard my comment above.
A domestic on top. Jaguar tied for second. Audi better than average. Lexus not the best. If that's not a sign of the coming apocolypse I don't know what is.
The only thing normal about that chart is VW still at the bottom.
😛
[edit]
And I still can't figure out how badge enineered labels like Mercury that have virtually cloned cars from Ford do that much better than their symbiotic twins. Is it the Focuses and trucks that are killing the stats that bad? It just doesn't make sense.
The only thing normal about that chart is VW still at the bottom.
😛
[edit]
And I still can't figure out how badge enineered labels like Mercury that have virtually cloned cars from Ford do that much better than their symbiotic twins. Is it the Focuses and trucks that are killing the stats that bad? It just doesn't make sense.
Since Mercury is a more premium label than Ford then it may be that they have more stringent QA standards at Mercury. Certainly on the higher up in corporations, having a separate entity may mandate that it have higher quality standards which is not uncommon. The processes may differ under the different brands even though they fall under the same umbrella.
InflatableBuddha
Diamond Member
JD Power :laugh:...I'm not sure how much stock I would put on this survey.
3 year vehicle dependability? Come on, pretty much all modern vehicles should be running well after 3 years...most are still under warranty! A survey of 8-10 year old vehicles would be much more revealing.
Jaguar doesn't sell nearly as many vehicles as Buick, so I don't see the fairness in this comparison.
Lexus had a slight increase in problems...not really a big problem.
Props to Jaguar for improving its reliability, but really, many Buick and Lexus models have been very reliable for the long term.
3 year vehicle dependability? Come on, pretty much all modern vehicles should be running well after 3 years...most are still under warranty! A survey of 8-10 year old vehicles would be much more revealing.
Jaguar doesn't sell nearly as many vehicles as Buick, so I don't see the fairness in this comparison.
Lexus had a slight increase in problems...not really a big problem.
Props to Jaguar for improving its reliability, but really, many Buick and Lexus models have been very reliable for the long term.
JD is still the most scientific that I know. CR is probable the worst.
Also after several years reliability will be just as much if not more based on the owner then the badge on the car.
The 3 year is decent as it will show up major items that fail on that line that are common. Like Honda and its auto trans, some toyotas sludge issue starting showing up, GMs intake gasket issue, and so forth.
The big thing here is Toyota actually rose a spot, they'e always hovered around #5 or 6 but now they're #4, hardly the apocolyptical attitude people on autoblog seem to have about toyota quality.
Lexus quality down the hill is such a crock bs, they still have fewer and fewer problems per year. Are other automakers catching up? No doubt, but when you get down to about 1.2 problem over 3 years, it looks like you hit a wall of diminishing returns where its just about impossible to improve without removing the human out of the equation.
I've always said Ford was the best thing to ever happen to JAG. Jag finally got cash to develop decent cars and quality went up a hundredfold.
Unfortunately, doesn't look like Tata is doing a good job with them from initial reports which makes sense as Tata is a newcomer to the luxury game, and teething problems are expected, though it still IMO is too early to make a definitive judgment.
Buick is easy to believe. The buicks don't have HUDs, nightvision, pre-safe or any of that other stuff on luxury cars so when amenities are such things as steering wheels and radios, there's not much to go wrong.
Lexus quality down the hill is such a crock bs, they still have fewer and fewer problems per year. Are other automakers catching up? No doubt, but when you get down to about 1.2 problem over 3 years, it looks like you hit a wall of diminishing returns where its just about impossible to improve without removing the human out of the equation.
I've always said Ford was the best thing to ever happen to JAG. Jag finally got cash to develop decent cars and quality went up a hundredfold.
Unfortunately, doesn't look like Tata is doing a good job with them from initial reports which makes sense as Tata is a newcomer to the luxury game, and teething problems are expected, though it still IMO is too early to make a definitive judgment.
Buick is easy to believe. The buicks don't have HUDs, nightvision, pre-safe or any of that other stuff on luxury cars so when amenities are such things as steering wheels and radios, there's not much to go wrong.
8-10 year old surveys wouldn't be much more revealing for the fact that not a single one of those cars is still being sold new. a lot of 2006 models are still being sold new as 2009 or 2010 models. not to mention that how a company was doing 10 years ago isn't particularly reflective of how they're doing now. you would assume they wouldn't backslide much, but who knows. how they were doing just 3 years ago is much more relevant to how they are doing now.
not to mention the sample size of original owners of 8-10 year old cars is so small that you'd probably have massive margin of error. they had to go from 5 to 3 because the sample size was getting smaller and smaller.
not to mention that after 10 years reliability and problems have much more to do with usage and how well the owner kept things up than the make.
bigdog1218
Golden Member
This is a reliability survey, Toyota still has crappy quality.
And maybe people in general will start to realize the strides Audi has made in reliability, and how different a car company it is from VW.
Well, I said it earlier, but it seems to have gone missing. Lexus did actually go down (120 to 126); however, the big winners are the top five or so (excluding Lexus since they were already up there). The change in Lexus is pretty insignificant because they're still doing very well. However, the top 5 or so made a huge jump. Last year, they were all around 150-165, compared to the 120-130 this year.
Oh, and if you honestly think that about Buick, you may want to recheck your facts. They come with plenty of bells and whistles. It's not going to park for you, which only two companies even offer that, but it still won't leave you without a lot when compared to other cars in its class.
A three year old car has a lot more in it than an eight year old car. Other than a sunroof, the base 2009 Honda Civic (even 2006, since that's when the refresh happened) comes with more than the top of the line Civic it replaced in 2001. It's hard to go on something that old when so much of what's going into these cars isn't even three years old.
PricklyPete
Lifer
Not to mention who does the maintenance work and what parts they are using. I knew a lady who had an old Lexus who was constantly complaining about things breaking. Well she had her son in law replacing OEM parts with the cheapest shit he could find at Autozone. Once you stop using OEM parts...I think the car's "reliablity" is no longer relevant is judging a car company's competence in building a reliable vehicle.
This is a Canadian article but it applies
Even the so called dark days of NA cars turns out in reallity there is about a 10% difference in favour of Japanese manurfacture
From this I expect many of the cars built today will even do much better than 15 yrs
"In 2000, about 28 per cent of 15-year-old passenger cars remained on the road but the research found that last year, the number had climbed to 43 per cent.
Among nameplates, the research showed the survival rate for vehicles older than 15 years from offshore-based manufacturers including Toyota and Honda had shot up to 53.9 per cent last year from 30.5 per cent in 2000.
North American-based General Motors, Ford and Chrysler also had improved their survival rate for those aging vehicles to 43.7 per cent from 35.2 per cent in the same period.
DesRosiers said if there had been research in 1990 for 15-year-old vehicles, it would have been newsworthy if more than 15 per cent of such autos were still on the road.
"Never before have we seen such compelling large-scale evidence of improved long-term durability ? regardless of nameplate origin, country of manufacture or class of vehicle," said DesRosiers, president of DesRosiers Automotive Consultants.
Several factors have contributed to the longer lifespans, including widespread use of galvanized sheet metal, tighter manufacturing fits, better lubricants and electronic fuel injection, DesRosiers said."
Even the so called dark days of NA cars turns out in reallity there is about a 10% difference in favour of Japanese manurfacture
From this I expect many of the cars built today will even do much better than 15 yrs
"In 2000, about 28 per cent of 15-year-old passenger cars remained on the road but the research found that last year, the number had climbed to 43 per cent.
Among nameplates, the research showed the survival rate for vehicles older than 15 years from offshore-based manufacturers including Toyota and Honda had shot up to 53.9 per cent last year from 30.5 per cent in 2000.
North American-based General Motors, Ford and Chrysler also had improved their survival rate for those aging vehicles to 43.7 per cent from 35.2 per cent in the same period.
DesRosiers said if there had been research in 1990 for 15-year-old vehicles, it would have been newsworthy if more than 15 per cent of such autos were still on the road.
"Never before have we seen such compelling large-scale evidence of improved long-term durability ? regardless of nameplate origin, country of manufacture or class of vehicle," said DesRosiers, president of DesRosiers Automotive Consultants.
Several factors have contributed to the longer lifespans, including widespread use of galvanized sheet metal, tighter manufacturing fits, better lubricants and electronic fuel injection, DesRosiers said."
marincounty
Diamond Member
Well I meant the last thing as a joke, but as a luxury tweener brand, Buick does have less bells and whistles as compared to Lexus, Acura or especially Infiniti,Mercedes, Audi and BMW.
Yes, Buick has GPS, park sensors etc, but you cannot argue that Buick's GPS does not do 4 different views on the GPS(Infiniti M35s do birds eye, 3D, and 2 others i dont remember)
Lexus and Merc have collision response systems that close windows/straighten seatbacks/prime brakes and tension seat belts.
Merc has drive by wire
BMW&Merc have night vision displays
BMW 7 series have 16 or 18 way adjustable seats(actually a huge PITA I could never find the perfect setting)
A lot of them have mechanized, closing doors and trunks
Those are just off the top of my head.
just those little things add a lot of complexity and electronics. You wouldn't believe how retardedly wired the Merc Pre Safe system is on a wiring diagram.
Buicks are great cars and the 2010 Buick Lucerne looks to be shaping up to be a real looker, one of the first buicks I can remember that look attractive to me, but they're slightly below other lux brands as far as technogoodies go.
If by crappy quality you mean Mercedes or BMW level, sure.
My 2006 Merc E500's ashtray cover doesnt line up perfectly with my dash, never has and I don't ever touch it to wear it out.
My friend's Mazda 6's glove box has a small crack that lets light out if you put a flashlight in there.
I've seen many, many jettas (2005+) with paint coming off of the center console radio buttons.
My friend's 2005 Z4 never had absolutely perfect hood fitment from the factory(very hard to notice, but its there if you're careful).
My friend's 2005 C55 AMG had the Merc logo rub off the shifter after 2 years.
Toyota is crap is just not true. No they're no longer perfect, but its still perfectly fine, I'd even say pretty good on most models.
It's like a bunch of kids learning Santa doesn't exist. No he doesn't but you're still getting presents Christmas morning and thats pretty damn good as it is.
If I had to put my money where my mouth is and buy a daily driver sedan for A-B transport on a reasonable ($16-20K) budget, I'd buy a Toyota and I'd be confident it'd be a better decision than most other cars out there.
Yep. My SiL loves her Audi and if asked would tell you it has had no problems. Yet I have had to replace the o2 sensor, dash cup holder, bulb issue, and on and on. I think I work on it at least once a month. Yet to her its been perfect and no problems. Also it has less then 40k.
GM hs a image problem as even here all the fanboys keep saying GM sucks, will leave you on the road, etc... and toyota is perfect that engine sludge thing never happened, the new camry did not have problems and so on.
Truth is the majority of cars out there now are so close that a lot of differance will come down to the owner. So buy the car that is a good price, drives well, and you can see yourself owning for a long time. After that keep up with maintiance and enjoy it.
marincounty
Diamond Member
I know what you are talking about. All of those brainwashed people that bought Toyota because they were sick of taking their American or European car to the shop. And then their Toyota ended up being far more reliable than their previous car, and they report being much more satisfied with their Toyota.
Apparently Toyota has brainwashed millions.😉
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