Let's put an end to speculation about all the 'Foreign Terrorists' in Iraq . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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LA Times

Read the article & understand the text before you try to justify the faslehood of 'Outsiders'

<CLIP>

The insistence by interim Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi and many U.S. officials that foreign fighters are streaming into Iraq to battle American troops runs counter to the U.S. military's own assessment that the Iraqi insurgency remains primarily a home-grown problem.

In a U.S. visit last week, Allawi spoke of foreign insurgents "flooding" his country, and both President Bush and his Democratic challenger, Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry, have cited these fighters as a major security problem.

But according to top U.S. military officers in Iraq, the threat posed by foreign fighters is far less significant than American and Iraqi politicians portray. Instead, commanders said, loyalists of Saddam Hussein's regime ? who have swelled their ranks in recent months as ordinary Iraqis bristle at the U.S. military presence in Iraq ? represent the far greater threat to the country's fragile 3-month-old government.

Foreign militants such as Jordanian-born Abu Musab Zarqawi are believed responsible for carrying out videotaped beheadings, suicide car bombings and other high-profile attacks. But U.S. military officials said Iraqi officials tended to exaggerate the number of foreign fighters in Iraq to obscure the fact that large numbers of their countrymen have taken up arms against U.S. troops and the American-backed interim Iraqi government.

"They say these guys are flowing across [the border] and fomenting all this violence. We don't think so," said a senior military official in Baghdad. "What's the main threat? It's internal."

In interviews during his U.S. visit last week, Allawi spoke ominously of foreign jihadists "coming in the hundreds to Iraq." In one interview, he estimated that foreign fighters constituted 30% of insurgent forces.

Allawi's comments echoed a theme in Bush's recent campaign speeches: that foreign fighters streaming into the country are proof that the war in Iraq is inextricably linked to the global war on terrorism.

Kerry has made a similar case, with a different emphasis. In remarks on the stump last week, he said that the "terrorists pouring across the border" were proof that the Bush administration had turned Iraq into a magnet for foreign fighters hoping to kill Americans.

Yet top military officers challenge all these statements. In a TV interview Sunday, Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, estimated that the number of foreign fighters in Iraq was below 1,000.

"While the foreign fighters in Iraq are definitely a problem that have to be dealt with, I still think that the primary problem that we're dealing with is former regime elements of the ex-Baath Party that are fighting against the government and trying to do anything possible to upend the election process," he said. Iraqi elections are scheduled for January.

U.S. officials acknowledge that Iraq's porous border ? especially its boundary with Syria ? allows arms and money to be smuggled in with relative ease. But they say the traffic from Syria is largely Iraqi Baathists who escaped after the U.S.-led invasion and couriers bringing in money from former members of Hussein's government.

At the behest of the interim government, U.S. forces last month cracked down on traffic along the 375-mile Syrian border. During Operation Phantom Linebacker, U.S. troops picked up small numbers of foreign fighters attempting to cross into Iraq, officials say.

Yet the bulk of the traffic they detected was the kind that has existed for hundreds of years: smugglers and Syrian tribesmen with close ties to sheiks on Iraq's side of the border.

Top military officers said there was little evidence that the dynamics in Iraq were similar to those in Afghanistan in the 1980s, when thousands of Arabs waged war alongside Afghans to drive out the Soviet Union.

Instead, U.S. military officials said the core of the insurgency in Iraq was ? and always had been ? Hussein's fiercest loyalists, who melted into Iraq's urban landscape when the war began in March 2003. During the succeeding months, they say, the insurgents' ranks have been bolstered by Iraqis who grew disillusioned with the U.S. failure to deliver basic services, jobs and reconstruction projects.

It is this expanding group, they say, that has given the insurgency its deadly power and which represents the biggest challenge to an Iraqi government trying to establish legitimacy countrywide.

"People try to turn this into the mujahedin, jihad war. It's not that," said one U.S. intelligence official. "How many foreign fighters have been captured and processed? Very few."
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Topic Title: Let's put an end to speculation about all the 'Foreign Terrorists' in Iraq . . .
Topic Summary: The facts indicate that they are in fact Iraqi's . . .

Capt Capt, you've heard the Neocons, even the Chineese are in Iraq blasting our efforts there, so it has to be true because they said so. Better take off your Tin Foil Hat, the brainwashing waves aren't getting through.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Yep, and thanks, CaptnKirk.

This sentence is indicative of the why's and wherefor's-

"During the succeeding months, they say, the insurgents' ranks have been bolstered by Iraqis who grew disillusioned with the U.S. failure to deliver basic services, jobs and reconstruction projects."

Failure to deliver- seems familiar, somehow... only 5% of the budgeted reconstruction funds have been spent, and $8.8B of the Iraqis' money has disappeared... wonder what it all means...
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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The Euroes said the same thing after WWII.

I find it utterly amazing how you can complain about somebody building you a powerplant, sewers, schools. And all you have to do is breath to get it.

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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how you can complain about somebody building you a powerplant, sewers, schools

Ah, there's the rub. You see - they haven't really been built.
But those who gleefully followed the Bush Agenda think that they have.

Take the money (and Oil) and run.

 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: maddogchen
hard to build something when the insurgents come to blow it up every other day.

hmm, they have mostly been blowing up police recruitment centers and oil pipelines and not powerplants, sewers and schools as far as I know.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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they don't want power plants? They got something against electricity?

They're not just attacking pipelines to exports but also gas pipelines to multiple power plants providing electricity to cities in Iraq.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Only blowing up what WE want - not what they want.

Huh? The Iraqis don't want power, water, sewers, or schools? That's news to me.

The faulty premise in all this is that the actions of the insurgents are a reflection of what the Iraqi population as a whole desires or feels. That doesn't seem to be the case.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
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Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: maddogchen
hard to build something when the insurgents come to blow it up every other day.

hmm, they have mostly been blowing up police recruitment centers and oil pipelines and not powerplants, sewers and schools as far as I know.

powerplants in Iraq use their oil/gas reserves to provide electricity. To build a powerplant you must also build a pipeline from the resource to the plant. You can't just build a powerplant in the middle of nowhere and not provide resources for it to make power. Insurgents have hindered these operations by attacking these vulnerable pipelines, cutting off power to the Iraqi public.


74. July 6 - blast on gas pipeline that feeds multiple power plants in the center and north of Iraq and a gas canister factory in Taji, north of Baghdad, that provides gas for many homes. Head of the Northern Gas Company, Huner Hassan, said "A device exploded along the pipeline about 90 km (56 miles) south of Kirkuk, sparking a fire." He noted "This is going to affect electricity production for the country and the production of gas for domestic use."
The Iraq Pipeline Watch.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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most of the terrorists in Iraq are foreign, end of discussion

Didn't even read the contents of the supporting data to this thread -Duh !
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.

is there a god?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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Yes - there ARE Foreign Fighters in Iraq, They happen to be U.S. Military.

The 'Insurgents'e the local citizens, U.S. Government estimates are that IF
there are Foreign Insurgents, they make up less than 3,000 total in the country.

But why would you want to beleive anything that our own Intelligence Groups say,
since it dosen't state specifically what Bush want's to hear.

Live the Lie ! - Die the Lie !
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.

is there a god?
The terrorists seem to think so. They'd also like to send you to see him as soon as they possibly can.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.

is there a god?
The terrorists seem to think so. They'd also like to send you to see him as soon as they possibly can.

so what are you claiming, they are mostly iraqies, mostly foreign or?
 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.

is there a god?
The terrorists seem to think so. They'd also like to send you to see him as soon as they possibly can.

Actually i doubt the turrurists want to kill Czar.

Maybe you could explain what terrorists have to do with insurgents, god and Iceland?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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Maybe you could explain what terrorists have to do with insurgents, god and Iceland?


Obviously - Czar is the Insurgent God of Iceland.

(and you thought it was Bjork !)
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.

is there a god?
The terrorists seem to think so. They'd also like to send you to see him as soon as they possibly can.

so what are you claiming, they are mostly iraqies, mostly foreign or?
What are they mostly? They are mostly idiots. 'Let's prove how much we hate the Americans by blowing up our own stuff and killing our own people.' Sounds like a really well though-out plan.

btw, the insurgency is not about ejecting coalition troops from Iraq. It's little more than an attempt at a power grab by those in charge of the insurgency who are fooling the ignorant poor in league with them into believing this is about their country. It's not. I know it's not and I think anyone with more than half a brain recognizes that as well. Take good ol' Mookie as an example. Sadr didn't/doesn't care about Iraq or Iraqis. Sadr cared/cares about Sadr and how much personal power he can wield.

 

Klixxer

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2004
6,149
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Maybe you could explain what terrorists have to do with insurgents, god and Iceland?


Obviously - Czar is the Insurgent God of Iceland.

(and you thought it was Bjork !)

LMAO!!

But does that make him a turrurist?

;)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,875
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Does anyone on either side have some hard, verifiable numbers to prove their claims either way?

No?

Didn't think so.
Well, it's not like you're going to get the terrorists to sign an affadavit with their home address and phone number, along with their country's equivalent of their social security number and driver's license. What do you think this is, a Bush campaign event? :shocked:

We no longer even enter entire cities. We aren't even in control of large parts of Bahgdad. Your demand for hard numbers is a pie in the sky diversion. But, Sparky, the truth is not only out there, it's right here in this thread.

Why not ask the man George Bush trusts to be in charge of our military in the theatre? His answer is BOLDED in CapnKirk's OP: Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, estimated that the number of foreign fighters in Iraq was below 1,000.

Want more? Why not pay attention to the hard facts that ARE available, like this other bolded part of the OP: "People try to turn this into the mujahedin, jihad war. It's not that," said one U.S. intelligence official. "How many foreign fighters have been captured and processed? Very few."

There are none so blind that they will not see, no matter how much they taste like poultry. :roll: