Let's play "what if...."

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
The ITC just ruled in Apple's favor against HTC...

Oracle seems to have a good case against Google...

What if Android goes away? Sued out of existence?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
MS will need to step up their game, hardball.
Without real competition Apple will make shitty overpriced garbage as opposed to overpriced goodies.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
I highly doubt Apple or Microsoft actually have valid patents for Android, given how generic they actually are.

Google better take a serious and thorough review of future Android versions to make sure they aren't going to be flooded with these 'Me too!' lawsuits.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
I highly doubt Apple or Microsoft actually have valid patents for Android, given how generic they actually are.

Google better take a serious and thorough review of future Android versions to make sure they aren't going to be flooded with these 'Me too!' lawsuits.

There are 49 current ones...

Android is described as a lawsuit magnet.
 

swinger222

Member
Jun 3, 2005
111
0
71
Let's hope it never happens. Apple's back to their crappy monopoly, and the consumer ends up screwed.
Android is the only option in the mobile market, as far as I'm concerned.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Consumer hasn't been screwed yet with Apple's iOS I don't know what you're talking about.

Err, so you never had a reason to use folders . . .or multi-task . . . or use an app you wanted but Apple deemed unnecessary, or use a different browser than Safari, or copy/past. Android has caused Apple to implement all these features into iOS.
 

ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
1
81
What will happen is Google or the handset manufacturers or a combination of both, will send money Apple's way and everyone will be fine.
 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,883
63
91
I love how Apple can copy unabashedly and spend an untold millions on their legal team. Protecting your patents in one thing. Suing your competitors out of the market is another.
Let me rephrase that. Suing your competitors out of the market, while copying ideas like it's a free market, is downright unethical.
Meanwhile, Apple is doing little to protect the little guy developers from Lodsys patent trolls.
I doubt you'll see HTC barred from exporting any phones.
If that happens, it will be unprecedented embarrassment to the entire international legal scene.
It will change things forever. No longer will innovation lead, it will be how strong is your patent suite?
Does your legal team cost more than your entire R&D and Marketing teams combined? No? You will lose.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Here's something to think about. Apple is suing handset makers, Moto, HTC, Samsung, etc, the people who make Android devices, and not Google, the people who make Android. If Android is violating these patents, then why isn't Apple going after the source of the problem?

The reason? Money. The profit margins made by HTC, Moto, Samsung et al are razor thin, and none of them have the resources for a drawn out legal battle. Apple has tens of billions in the bank and a legal team larger than their entire engineering and development groups. Google also has billions in the bank, and could drag a legal battle out for years.

So, not only is Apple unabashedly copying others, and then suing them for patent violations, they are targeting those who can't defend themselves for long.

Microsoft is just as bad.
 

smartpatrol

Senior member
Mar 8, 2006
870
0
0
We could see it happen that Android is simply too expensive to use. HTC is supposedly paying $5/device to MS. MS is asking for $15/device from Samsung, but Samsung is trying to negotiate the price down to "only" $10. It's not hard to imagine a near future where Apple, MS, and Oracle are all getting licensing fees from every Android device sold.

If Android were to vanish, I could see 3 options:
1. Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC etc would simply stick with WP7 instead. This is obviously what MS is hoping for
2. Some of the handset manufacturers could go with MeeGo instead. LG has shown a little interest in using MeeGo on some devices. The big problem with this is that there's no major corporation taking charge of the ecosystem.
3. There's already talk of HP licensing WebOS to other manufacturers.
 

LOL_Wut_Axel

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2011
4,310
8
81
Here's something to think about. Apple is suing handset makers, Moto, HTC, Samsung, etc, the people who make Android devices, and not Google, the people who make Android. If Android is violating these patents, then why isn't Apple going after the source of the problem?

The reason? Money. The profit margins made by HTC, Moto, Samsung et al are razor thin, and none of them have the resources for a drawn out legal battle. Apple has tens of billions in the bank and a legal team larger than their entire engineering and development groups. Google also has billions in the bank, and could drag a legal battle out for years.

So, not only is Apple unabashedly copying others, and then suing them for patent violations, they are targeting those who can't defend themselves for long.

Microsoft is just as bad.

Hahaha. You don't really know just how big Samsung is. They're huge, and could definitely afford to be in a legal battle for many years if they wanted to.

Microsoft is an angel as of now compared to Apple. It seems like Apple wants to one-up Microsoft and their tactics in the 90s.

Everything else, I completely agree with.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Hahaha. You don't really know just how big Samsung is. They're huge, and could definitely afford to be in a legal battle for many years if they wanted to.

Microsoft is an angel as of now compared to Apple. It seems like Apple wants to one-up Microsoft and their tactics in the 90s.

Everything else, I completely agree with.
They can afford it but would it be worth the cost? They already don't make that much of a margin on the phones they sell I don't think they want to drag on a case that could make their handset business unprofitable.
 

LOL_Wut_Axel

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2011
4,310
8
81
They can afford it but would it be worth the cost? They already don't make that much of a margin on the phones they sell I don't think they want to drag on a case that could make their handset business unprofitable.

Of course it would be worth it. If they lose, that means potentially not being able to sell their smartphones in the US, which is a lot worse than having to pay to lawyers to get this case solved.

Their smartphone division may not have big margins, but they do sell in huge volume. In all honesty, the amount they have to spend on getting this solved is probably meager compared the profits they're racking from the sale of their smartphones in the US.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Hahaha. You don't really know just how big Samsung is. They're huge, and could definitely afford to be in a legal battle for many years if they wanted to.

Just because Samsung is big, doesn't mean they have a lot of cash on hand. Apple has some 50 billion in liquid cash available burning a hole in their accounts, they have to spend it somewhere. :p
 

LOL_Wut_Axel

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2011
4,310
8
81
Just because Samsung is big, doesn't mean they have a lot of cash on hand. Apple has some 50 billion in liquid cash available burning a hole in their accounts, they have to spend it somewhere. :p

They probably do have a lot of money in the bank. Is there any way to find out this info? I know about Apple having that much in the bank from the articles that mentioned it some time ago.
 

gotsmack

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2001
5,768
0
71
The ITC just ruled in Apple's favor against HTC...

Oracle seems to have a good case against Google...

What if Android goes away? Sued out of existence?

Then Google either develops/takes over MeeGo or they buy out RIMM. Mobile is the new PC market. It's too big and important for Google to give up.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,551
136
I highly doubt Apple or Microsoft actually have valid patents for Android, given how generic they actually are.

Google better take a serious and thorough review of future Android versions to make sure they aren't going to be flooded with these 'Me too!' lawsuits.

Too bad the court and the ITC seem to think so. Keep in mind these are the same folks who let Amazon's one-click patent stand. The extensibility of the UI actually works against Android in this case. The base version of Android may not contain UI elements that are infringing but with all of the custom OEM UI's, one of them is bound to infringe a patent from somewhere.

Err, so you never had a reason to use folders . . .or multi-task . . . or use an app you wanted but Apple deemed unnecessary, or use a different browser than Safari, or copy/past. Android has caused Apple to implement all these features into iOS.

Ok. You wanted a feature Apple does not provide. Power Windows on cars used to be a priced feature. It doesn't change how the car handles or the fuel economy of the car. The lack of this feature doesn't make the car more prone to damage or wear and tear. The lack of Power Windows may make said car not the ideal product for you but it's not like the car was not sufficient for the vast majority of users. And in the case of the iPhone, it features pretty much everything a common user (not tech oriented or highly advanced) would want from a smartphone.

You're mistaking "getting screwed" with "features I want but not provided by Apple" there. Getting screwed is getting a phone that looks nice but is shit, perhaps bug ridden or with poor battery life. It's not like Apple is missing a feature that one deems fundamental to a smartphone. In fact, Apple iPhones are fine for the overwhelming majority of consumers.

I love how Apple can copy unabashedly and spend an untold millions on their legal team. Protecting your patents in one thing. Suing your competitors out of the market is another.
Let me rephrase that. Suing your competitors out of the market, while copying ideas like it's a free market, is downright unethical.

You're forgetting that the current way to interface with smartphones was practically invented by Apple. Gee, it's ok for others to copy Apple I guess. No outcry there. I've also pointed out in the past how some of the common features of today's desktop windowed GUI's were developed by Apple. For everyone else don't start on the lie of how Apple copied Xerox. It's been often repeated that Xerox gave permission for Apple to visit their research labs and received stocks in payment for the use of their GUI. Apple paid for permission to use Xerox's GUI.

Everyone copies everyone else. It's a fact. Just because Company A feels its patents are being infringed on and is suing Company B doesn't suddenly make it wrong for them to copy features/functionality when everyone else does the same. You can't just tell someone who is engaged in standard industry practices that what they are doing is wrong because they're suing someone else.

That's not to say I think those Apple patents that HTC are sued for are valid. That's a whole other story. Some of them have very obvious prior art.

Meanwhile, Apple is doing little to protect the little guy developers from Lodsys patent trolls.
Wrong. You might have missed it but this news was plastered over many tech web sites like Engadget, CNET, Ars Technica, BGR, Information Week, and others. Here's one article on Apple intervening on behalf of their developers. And here's an article on developer response to Apple's stance on the Lodsys patents.

I doubt you'll see HTC barred from exporting any phones.
If that happens, it will be unprecedented embarrassment to the entire international legal scene.
It will change things forever. No longer will innovation lead, it will be how strong is your patent suite?
Does your legal team cost more than your entire R&D and Marketing teams combined? No? You will lose.
Business today is all about your patent portfolio (defensively and offensively). This ruling, whether in favor of Apple or HTC won't change a thing. Hell, NTP vs RIM should have taught you that.

Here's something to think about. Apple is suing handset makers, Moto, HTC, Samsung, etc, the people who make Android devices, and not Google, the people who make Android. If Android is violating these patents, then why isn't Apple going after the source of the problem?

The reason? Money. The profit margins made by HTC, Moto, Samsung et al are razor thin, and none of them have the resources for a drawn out legal battle. Apple has tens of billions in the bank and a legal team larger than their entire engineering and development groups. Google also has billions in the bank, and could drag a legal battle out for years.

So, not only is Apple unabashedly copying others, and then suing them for patent violations, they are targeting those who can't defend themselves for long.

Microsoft is just as bad.

Google has plenty of cash on hand to defend itself. Google has some $30 billion in liquid assets I believe (too lazy to look it up). If Apple sued them first, it will be a long and protracted battle and Google's defense team may just win. What is Apple to do? Sue the little guys first. These are the guys who have less resources to defend themselves. You're more likely to obtain a favorable ruling to your claims. Now go after the big guys with court precedence on your side. Standard practice in patent disputes. Not saying the practice is right or wrong, just stating that's standard practice.
 

smartpatrol

Senior member
Mar 8, 2006
870
0
0
Then Google either develops/takes over MeeGo or they buy out RIMM. Mobile is the new PC market. It's too big and important for Google to give up.

Were Google to take over MeeGo and it caught on with the handset manufacturers, wouldn't it be in the exact same position Android is in now? It seems like the problem with Android is that it doesn't have a company with a huge patent portfolio behind it.

A RIMM takeover might work, although I think there would be an enormous clash of corporate cultures were that to happen.