Let's Play "Spot the Irony!"

[zinfamous]

God dammit zin, proofread your burns before posting. You know what else is third grade level? The difference between "you're" and "your." Also, capitalization. I mean, I agree with you in principle, but your execution was atrocious, and nothing makes you look like an idiot faster than calling someone stupid with a misspelling. DUMASS.

god dam you atom Playboy. your really just grindin my gears!

 

[madoka]

moron.

--one is born gay.

--one is born neither christian, islam, or terrorist.

religious affiliation is a choice. sexual identity is not.

moron.

also, people aren't generally born morons, either. Many choose this path. I won't hold that against you, but I kindly ask that you please stop polluting my bandwidth with it.

Perhaps you're not aware, so I won't hold that against you, but there are Oregon civil rights laws that prevent discrimination against religion and sexual orientation. There is a conflict when homosexuals discriminate against religious people and when religious people discriminate against homosexuals. Of course, some can't see that BOTH are protected classes because they're too busy childishly insulting others.

 

[tynopik]

This was quite explicit, targeted at the individuals

Incorrect

They targetted the activity, not the individuals

they would sell to the same individuals if they were ordering a birthday cake, so they were not discriminating against their identity.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Incorrect

They targetted the activity, not the individuals

they would sell to the same individuals if they were ordering a birthday cake, so they were not discriminating against their identity.

No, they targeted the individuals. If you sell cakes to a straight wedding but not a gay wedding, the difference is not the activity (a marriage ceremony), it's the individuals. You can't say "well a gay wedding is obviously different than a straight wedding as an activity" because it isn't except for the individuals involved. It's a wedding.

 

[tynopik]

If you sell cakes to a straight wedding but not a gay wedding, the difference is not the activity (a marriage ceremony), it's the individuals.

Incorrect.

A wedding is not an individual. Full stop.

You can't say "well a gay wedding is obviously different than a straight wedding as an activity"

Sure you can. You can have whatever reason you want, because a wedding is an activity and not an individual and is therefore not a protected class.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Incorrect.

A wedding is not an individual. Full stop.

Sure you can. You can have whatever reason you want, because a wedding is an activity and not an individual and is therefore not a protected class.

OK. What's the difference between a non-denominational straight wedding and a non-denominational gay wedding? The individuals. That's it. If a baker is willing to bake a cake for two identical weddings but balks if one wedding features two male names, their ONLY complaint is with the individuals, not the act. They specifically condone the act when it isn't being engaged in by the specific individuals involved.

 

[Paladin3]

NVM

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Incorrect.

A wedding is not an individual. Full stop.



Sure you can. You can have whatever reason you want, because a wedding is an activity and not an individual and is therefore not a protected class.

Holy shit. D:

The wedding isn't ordering a cake, numbnuts. The individuals are the customers, not the wedding.

 

[Moonbeam]

Holy shit. D:

The wedding isn't ordering a cake, numbnuts. The individuals are the customers, not the wedding.

Like he's going to understand that. He's a protected class, protected by a brain defect from understanding what a fool he is. A 2x4 won't get his attention.

 

[KeithTalent]

Pie people are more tolerant people and so never get involved in this tomfoolery.

This is why you never see pie come between people.

Pie people are the best people.

Hell yeah. Pie people fo life!

Incorrect.

A wedding is not an individual. Full stop.

You really cannot be this dense. :hmm:

KT

 

[Paratus]

Incorrect

When you say they were denied service because of their orientation, you are talking about identity.

Like saying 'No Blacks allowed.'

Being black is part of your identity and you are being denied service because of who you are.

This is not the same. They were clearly not being denied because of who they were.

They were being denied because they were engaging in an activity the owner disagreed with. There is a tremendous difference between someone refusing to engage in an activity they disagree with and refusing to serve someone because of who they are.

Poor logic on your part.

This was straight up gender discrimination. A simple thought experiment proves this.

If Anna and Betsy try to buy a wedding cake at this store they would be refused.
If Anna and Bob try to buy a wedding cake they would be allowed.

The only difference between Bob and Betsy is thier gender. Betsy has been discriminated against due to her gender.


Furthermore, my assumption is a business liscence was required to open thier cake shop and the business was classified as a public accommodation. If that is the case, I don't see why the owners religion allows them to disregard the contract they voluntarily agreed to with the local governement when they decided to open a business.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Cakeghazi?

 

[NetGuySC]

Why is it that everyone but gays have to be tolerant?

 

[Brainonska511]

Why is it that everyone but gays have to be tolerant?

Why do people that operate public accommodation businesses think they can use religion as a shield to actively discriminate against people? These arguments have been hashed out 50+ years ago in the era of Jim Crow.

Oh, I'm being persecuted because I have to make a cake for a gay wedding!!! If only they were a straight couple who were twice divorced adulterers, then that would be okay.

 

[Smoblikat]

So wait, what was their closing based on - Lawsuits from the LGBT or from an overall lack of business from spreading the rumors?


After thinking about it - Ultimately here is where I stand on the issue:
I think you shouldn't be able to refuse your business (In this sense, a store anyone can walk into) under the assumption it is a simple product that is already made: (EX: Come in and buy a batch of cookies). When you want your product customized to something that could be offensive... I think that is where I would draw the line and say the owner can legally refuse.

Let's mix up the scenario: A black woman has a business of making cakes. A Klan leader comes in and wants a festive dozen cakes with the KKK logo and lynchings on each of their cakes. Should the owner/Cake maker not be able to refuse that?

I draw the line when you enter into a private place of business and try to conduct private business with them. At that point, their willingness to serve you is completely up to them. Nobody should be forced to serve anybody they dont want to, as long as its a private business.

 

[dank69]

Why is it that everyone but gays have to be tolerant?

People who hang their argument on the word tolerant are idiots.

"I'm intolerant of intolerant people!"

"Then you should be intolerant of yourself!"

 

[BurnItDwn]

Why is it that everyone but gays have to be tolerant?

I have never once read a story about a gay person who refused to serve a straight person at their place of buisness.

I have never seen gay people protesting against straight people marrying.

Gay people already tolerate straight folks all the time. 100% of the discrimination has been homophobic people against non-straight people. Therefore, the ones who have a wrong opinion, the ones who need to be tolerant, are the ones who are broken or of defective character, aka, the homophobes.

 

[dank69]

I draw the line when you enter into a private place of business and try to conduct private business with them. At that point, their willingness to serve you is completely up to them. Nobody should be forced to serve anybody they dont want to, as long as its a private business.

That didn't work out so well in the past.

 

[Stopsignhank]

I draw the line when you enter into a private place of business and try to conduct private business with them. At that point, their willingness to serve you is completely up to them. Nobody should be forced to serve anybody they dont want to, as long as its a private business.

So then it is legal for a baker to not sell a cake to a black person?

Or maybe they can sell to the Chinese and the blacks, but not the Irish!! (Who remembers Blazing Saddles and yes I changed it a little bit.)

 

[slag]

Found it!

 

[MagickMan]

Owner had to close because of lack of business.

Owner had to close due to threats of murder, actually. Which is decidedly fucked up.

 

[MagickMan]

i play music at weddings and wouldn't do it at a gay wedding, but i wouldn't say why. i'd just tell them i am too busy. much easier that way.

Yep. It's just going to force people to be more creative in how they deny service, which doesn't help anyone.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Why do people that operate public accommodation businesses think they can use religion as a shield to actively discriminate against people? These arguments have been hashed out 50+ years ago in the era of Jim Crow.

Oh, I'm being persecuted because I have to make a cake for a gay wedding!!! If only they were a straight couple who were twice divorced adulterers, then that would be okay.

Obviously they will not make divorce cakes, or they will not make cakes for people who were not virgins before their marriage. Anything less would be half assed bigotry, and these people have the religious freedom to judge others!

 

[Perknose]

Obviously they will not make divorce cakes, or they will not make cakes for people who were not virgins before their marriage. Anything less would be half assed bigotry, and these people have the religious freedom to judge others!

Actually, they are half-assed bigots, and they will!

The first incident, in February, involved Gresham’s Sweet Cakes by Melissa, whose owner told a lesbian couple that “we don’t do same-sex marriages.” Earlier this month, Pam Regentin, who operates Fleur Cakes out of her home in the Hood River area, also refused to make a cake for a lesbian couple’s wedding.

Both bakeries cited their religious beliefs as the reason they would not make the cakes. Both describe themselves as Christian.

Jesus, of course, never commented on gay people, but did tell his followers to “love your neighbor as yourself.” Instead, the widely cited Bible verse condemning homosexuality comes from Leviticus, a book that also prohibits getting tattooed or eating rabbit.

[...]

We wondered what other requests these cakemakers would decline to honor. So last week five WW reporters called these two bakeries anonymously to get price quotes for other occasions frowned upon by some Christians.

Surprisingly, the people who answered the phone at each bakery were quite willing to provide baked goods for celebrations of divorces, unmarried parents, stem-cell research, non-kosher barbecues and pagan solstice parties.

 

[jhu]

They should've just made the fucking cake. Idiots get what idiots deserve.

Couldn't they also have just said they're too busy instead?