lets nationalize a few refineries

[QuantumPion]

I.e., im refining $90 barrell month old to gas but selling the final product to stations as if its the current $110 barrell

That's not how the market works. Eventually you have to buy more oil at the higher price.

Let's say you were a farmer growing corn, and you normally sell it for $2 per bushell. If the market price for corn went up to $3 per bushell, would you continue to sell your current stock of corn at the old, lower price just because that happened to be the price when you grew the corn? If you did, everyone would rush out to immediately buy all of your underpriced corn to resale it at the market price, since it would be nearly risk-free profit for them.

Let's say on your farm you happen to have 100 gallons of fertilizer in storage for use next month, that you bought at $2 per gallon, but now the price is $3 per gallon. Now lets say your neighbor farm has run out of fertilizer and wants to buy yours. Are you going to sell him your fertilizer at $2 per gallon, even though it would cost you $3 per gallon to buy more when you need it later? If you did, you would essentially be giving your neighbor farmer free money.

 

[QuantumPion]

You would like them to sell it below cost?

No, he thinks all of the investors and stockholders of the oil companies should have their assets confiscated, and all of the employees of the company forced to work for free, and for the company to continue its current level of efficiency and productivity under these conditions.

 

[dmcowen674]

No, he thinks all of the investors and stockholders of the oil companies should have their assets confiscated, and all of the employees of the company forced to work for free, and for the company to continue its current level of efficiency and productivity under these conditions.

You are close

Investors (they are financial rapists actually) should be publicly flogged and stripped of all ill gotten wealth.

 

[QuantumPion]

You are close

Investors (they are financial rapists actually) should be publicly flogged and stripped of all ill gotten wealth.

bahahaha.





























..........









oh wait, you were being serious. Here, let me laugh even harder:



BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH.

 

[xj0hnx]

You are close

Investors (they are financial rapists actually) should be publicly flogged and stripped of all ill gotten wealth.

So pathetically jealous.

 

[Tom]

What does WWII have to do with govt taking over private industry in an attempt to reduce prices?

Read my post in context, I was responding to a post about government's inability to manage commercial activity.

Look up U.S. Maritime Commission, and War Production Board, if you want to know what the relevance is.

The government has a great deal of success managing commercial activity; production during the World Wars, Panama Canal, TVA, many others.

I was just responding to the expected incorrect responses that the government can't do anything right.

 

[QuantumPion]

So pathetically jealous.

It's not jealousy exactly. It's basically akin to the ideology implemented by Adolf Hitler and the Nazi movement.

 

[QuantumPion]

Read my post in context, I was responding to a post about government's inability to manage commercial activity.

Look up U.S. Maritime Commission, and War Production Board, if you want to know what the relevance is.

The government has a great deal of success managing commercial activity; production during the World Wars, Panama Canal, TVA, many others.

I was just responding to the expected incorrect responses that the government can't do anything right.

But the government didn't produce war time goods during WW2. Private corporations did. The government paid them butt loads of (borrowed) money to do so. For profit. The government controls amounted to rationing and price controls, not direct confiscation of industries.

 

[mizzou]

That's not how the market works. Eventually you have to buy more oil at the higher price.

Let's say you were a farmer growing corn, and you normally sell it for $2 per bushell. If the market price for corn went up to $3 per bushell, would you continue to sell your current stock of corn at the old, lower price just because that happened to be the price when you grew the corn? If you did, everyone would rush out to immediately buy all of your underpriced corn to resale it at the market price, since it would be nearly risk-free profit for them.

Let's say on your farm you happen to have 100 gallons of fertilizer in storage for use next month, that you bought at $2 per gallon, but now the price is $3 per gallon. Now lets say your neighbor farm has run out of fertilizer and wants to buy yours. Are you going to sell him your fertilizer at $2 per gallon, even though it would cost you $3 per gallon to buy more when you need it later? If you did, you would essentially be giving your neighbor farmer free money.

Using your analogy, my scenario would have the gov sell their product for profit, just at reasonable levels. So no, they wouldnt sell a $2 paid item for $2, they would do it at $2.5 or $3 when private industry would ty and inflate to $5 because of demand concerns.

Anyway, not sure how it would really work just throwing it out for discussion. Gov doesnt get involved in food producion......wait except we do pay people to NOT farm, do we still do that?

 

[QuantumPion]

Using your analogy, my scenario would have the gov sell their product for profit, just at reasonable levels. So no, they wouldnt sell a $2 paid item for $2, they would do it at $2.5 or $3 when private industry would ty and inflate to $5 because of demand concerns.

Anyway, not sure how it would really work just throwing it out for discussion. Gov doesnt get involved in food producion......wait except we do pay people to NOT farm, do we still do that?

It still wouldn't work. People would hoard the gas and buy as much as they possibly could, because it is being sold for below market price in order to re-sell it for higher price or save it for themselves. This would lead to shortages. This is exactly what happened last time the government tried to implement price controls on gasoline.

Repeat after me. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Tom]

But the government didn't produce war time goods during WW2. Private corporations did. The government paid them butt loads of (borrowed) money to do so. For profit. The government controls amounted to rationing and price controls, not direct confiscation of industries.

I didnt say it confiscated anything, although it may have in some cases, not sure about that; you dont seem to be disputing anything I said, so what's your point ?

 

[mizzou]

It still wouldn't work. People would hoard the gas and buy as much as they possibly could, because it is being sold for below market price in order to re-sell it for higher price or save it for themselves. This would lead to shortages. This is exactly what happened last time the government tried to implement price controls on gasoline.

Repeat after me. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

When were the last shortages from this? I wasnt alive then, i only remember reading about the 1970's oil embargo where there were shortages literally because no supply was coming in, or wartime rationing

Im not looking for a free lunch, i just dont want to have pf changs be my only option for chinese food

 

[CycloWizard]

Depends on when they make their purhase, im assuming recently you can hold onto oil when bought cheaply and then sell the refined product at a higher market price when commodity prices rise.

I.e., im refining $90 barrell month old to gas but selling the final product to stations as if its the current $110 barrell

Edit: maybe youd have to nationalize an oil rig as well, uhoh

Why don't you try opening a refinery, try this scheme, and report back to us. Or, you could simply take a couple of courses and realize that you're simply ignorant in the most basic principles of petroleum science and economics.

 

[Tom]

When were the last shortages from this? I wasnt alive then, i only remember reading about the 1970's oil embargo where there were shortages literally because no supply was coming in, or wartime rationing

Im not looking for a free lunch, i just dont want to have pf changs be my only option for chinese food

There were isolated shortages after Katrina, I remember having trouble finding diesel as I drove across Georgia.

And I was around in '73; I remember being restricted to a few gallons at a time, but I was 16 so it didnt bother me that much to drive the old '57 Chevy from station to station.

 

[QuantumPion]

When were the last shortages from this? I wasnt alive then, i only remember reading about the 1970's oil embargo where there were shortages literally because no supply was coming in, or wartime rationing

The 1970's oil shortages were a result of price controls on gas. If the prices were allowed to rise to their market level during the embargo, people would have voluntarily used less gas to save their own money.

Im not looking for a free lunch, i just dont want to have pf changs be my only option for chinese food

Your analogy is not apt. Oil is a commodity good, there are no immediate replacement products for the majority of the population (natural gas could be, but would take at least several years to ramp up production, transportation infrastructure, and vehicle retrofitting).

 

[Inspector Jihad]

At least he is not raping the country like you

lol calm yourself mimsy

 

[EagleKeeper]

You would like them to sell it below cost?

No, he thinks all of the investors and stockholders of the oil companies should have their assets confiscated, and all of the employees of the company forced to work for free, and for the company to continue its current level of efficiency and productivity under these conditions.

Yet he wants to be paid for his work. And at times; he gets paid more than the clerk at the refinery that he wants to work for free for him.

Double standard

 

[nick1985]

Is there anything a liberal hates more than an oil company?

 

[dmcowen674]

Why don't you try opening a refinery, try this scheme, and report back to us. Or, you could simply take a couple of courses and realize that you're simply ignorant in the most basic principles of petroleum science and economics.

No one has to open a refinery. It's been stated fact that there os more than enough capacity despite no new ones built since 1973 and in fact they are purposely holding back production because inventories are full.

Also there are refineries on the market looking to be sold.

Our tax dollars would be a hell of a lot better spent on buying and running them than giving you thugs the money to supposedly bail out your thieving banks.

 

[mizzou]

Why don't you try opening a refinery, try this scheme, and report back to us. Or, you could simply take a couple of courses and realize that you're simply ignorant in the most basic principles of petroleum science and economics.

I already said im ignorant of refinery profits, im not sure why you are so defensive. At least offer your opnion on why you would say that. Its just a discussion

 

[CycloWizard]

I already said im ignorant of refinery profits, im not sure why you are so defensive. At least offer your opnion on why you would say that. Its just a discussion

So instead of posting ignorant crap, why don't you spend time educating yourself on the issues? If you want me to teach a course on petroleum engineering or economics online, you're insane. However, if you'd like to sign up for the courses I teach and pay me to teach you, I'd be happy to do so. I don't work for free, nor did I expect to be educated for free. You can, of course, teach yourself by simply reading all of the relevant textbooks, which I will be happy to recommend.

 

[CycloWizard]

No one has to open a refinery. It's been stated fact that there os more than enough capacity despite no new ones built since 1973 and in fact they are purposely holding back production because inventories are full.

So oil companies are evil because they have improved their refining efficiency over the last few decades?

Also there are refineries on the market looking to be sold.

Then buy one and run it - right into the ground. If it's so easy to rape and pillage people using oil and gas as weapons, demonstrate it.

Our tax dollars would be a hell of a lot better spent on buying and running them than giving you thugs the money to supposedly bail out your thieving banks.

I don't work for the petroleum industry, nor do I have any part in banks except allowing them to pay me for keeping some of my money. Who are you going to get to run a refinery on the GS payscale? I promise that it will not be anyone capable of running a refinery. This would be another boondoggle like the VA, trying to hire a chief of staff at $95k/year. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[QuantumPion]

I didnt say it confiscated anything, although it may have in some cases, not sure about that; you dont seem to be disputing anything I said, so what's your point ?

Maybe I misread your post. I thought you were making the claim that in some instances, government confiscating industries can work out well, using WW2 wartime production as an example. I was countering with the fact that the US government did not de facto confiscate industries. At least not in the same manner or extent that e.g. Chavez has.

 

[shangshang]

nah let's not nationalized them. Let the oil co.'s rip the American people off. I'm ok with this.

 

[mizzou]

So instead of posting ignorant crap, why don't you spend time educating yourself on the issues? If you want me to teach a course on petroleum engineering or economics online, you're insane. However, if you'd like to sign up for the courses I teach and pay me to teach you, I'd be happy to do so. I don't work for free, nor did I expect to be educated for free. You can, of course, teach yourself by simply reading all of the relevant textbooks, which I will be happy to recommend.

wow, you got even angrier with this post. How about you contribute or leave this thread.

I would love to see your opinion on what profit margins are like for refineries.

Please limit yourself to one angry sentence