Lets get ready for some Debating Cage Fights Round 1,2, and 3

[mnewsham]

Trump's biggest problem tonight was his incoherence

I agree, Clinton didn't even have to do much, she just let trump interrupt and make an ass of himself and then ramble on about "the cyber" and other nonsense. He did far more damage to himself than hillary could have done without her just straight slinging insults.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Some of the commentators seem to think that Trump's biggest failing was not going after Clinton hard enough on the e-mails, Clinton foundation, Benghazi, etc. I don't agree. The trouble is that when he did go after her, she displayed a poised, even temperament. Even smiled. Clinton isn't easily rattled like Trump is. I have a feeling that Trump will "take the gloves off" more in the next debate but it will either backfire or just not accomplish much.

Trump's biggest problem tonight was his incoherence, particularly down the stretch. It's ironic that he went after Clinton on "stamina." Her stamina is actually amazing. His, not so much.

Agreed. I think he did pass on a few points where he had a valid case for counter-argument (e.g. when she said he never had mentioned cutting corporate taxes when he literally said so 10 minutes earlier) but instead he got sucked in by all the dumb birther and tax form and email crap. She let him have the floor and he took every second he had to dig himself into it. Trolled the hell out of him and she barely even had to try.

 

[DrDoug]

Trump's misogyny comes back to haunt him. He called this woman Miss Piggy and Miss Housekeeping because she is Latina.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...n-donald-trump-called-piggy-article-1.2807685

From the bottom of the article:

In a seeming Freudian slip, Conway told a Fox News reporter during a post-debate interview that Trump "came ready to say some rough things if (Clinton) was going to challenge him about his abusive…er...about his record on women."

Shorter Conway: 'Donald was ready to abuse Hillary if she pointed out his abusive record on women.' Annnd nothing happened when she did it, no "challenge"...

As usual, Trump comes up short...

 

[DrDoug]

Some of the commentators seem to think that Trump's biggest failing was not going after Clinton hard enough on the e-mails, Clinton foundation, Benghazi, etc. I don't agree. The trouble is that when he did go after her, she displayed a poised, even temperament. Even smiled. Clinton isn't easily rattled like Trump is. I have a feeling that Trump will "take the gloves off" more in the next debate but it will either backfire or just not accomplish much.

Trump's biggest problem tonight was his incoherence, particularly down the stretch. It's ironic that he went after Clinton on "stamina." Her stamina is actually amazing. His, not so much.

I think Donald is only good for short bursts of semi-coherence and flounders when as he runs out of gas. Good idea on the debate length, making it an hour and a half long.

Isn't Trump only good for an hour on TV?

 

[lopri]

I did not get to watch it but seeing Breitbart relentlessly attack the moderator I can imagine what happened.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm watching it now. Trump started off strong but Hillary is destroying him.

 

[DrDoug]

I did not get to watch it but seeing Breitbart relentlessly attack the moderator I can imagine what happened.

The fact that Lester Holt is registered Republican probably isn't even on their radar...

 

[KMFJD]

Also, if I were to belong to any of those professional conspiracy crafters like Breitbart, AJ etc. and the sides would be turned, I'd make a HUGE story now about "proof how Trump is on coke" and spread it all over s.m., like they do with their healther stories. It would be fun actually. And not even try to hide the fact that's entirely made up. Wait a minute, who knows, maybe he really WAS on coke... He was as much on coke and sniffing up his white powder during this debate as there is evidence for Hillary having dementia, Parkinsons etc...so it would be fair.

 

[disappoint]

Why was he sniffling? Did he do some coke before the debate?

Probably seasonal allergies. Ragweed count is sometimes high this time of year.

 

[DrDoug]

A few things:

Rudy Giuliani: 'I'd skip next debates if I were Trump'

I'm surprised Rudy is expanding his vocabulary beyond "a noun, a verb and 9-11"...

From the racist front: Even Stormfront thinks Hillary Clinton won the debate

Poor Donald is disappointing his white posse...

And here in Oregon, we are focusing on the important things like "Two debates to go: Nine weed strains to get you through them"

Screw that, I'll stick to the oils, shatter and waxes... mmmmm!

 

[agent00f]

Probably seasonal allergies. Ragweed count is sometimes high this time of year.

Naw, probably about to die.

 

[zinfamous]

What I'm saying is that Hillary was not DIRECTLY confronted about these sort of past comments or incidents. Only after Trump brought them up did Hillary receive some questioning. Watch the debate again and see.

No.

She was directly asked about your emails by Holt. This was a question that he had scheduled in before the appearance. Whether or not Trump vomited out some words tangentially related email-gazi-flowers-coughing prior to the topic is pointless. It was a planned question that she would have to answer no matter what.

 

[zinfamous]

Is there really any direct evidence that insufficient income taxes on the wealthy are what caused the "Great Recession"? Have any fact checkers attempted to call that one out?

that's one of those "impossible to prove due to multifactorial analysis" It's a factor, for sure, but it is not the one thing that caused it. When you have wealth concentrating at the top after a decade and more of favorable tax rates for the wealthy, a swelling income gap, you see a greater need among the lower middle class for awful subprime mortgages and such.

When people have less money to spend due to skewed taxation rates (ever since the 50s, the wealthy have only ever retained a greater gross amount of their wealth than the lower classes after taxation--not that this is wrong, but taxing someone's $15mill income @ 40%--of course, that person is likely paying 15%--compared to taxing a $30k person at 15%--guess who is more affected by the actual tax rate?) they look towards options that are available to them, many of them shady.

 

[zinfamous]

Even on more Trump-supporting websites the reception to Trump's performance seems lukewarm at best. He very bigly was a disgrace on the stage.

 

[zinfamous]

She did and talked actually quite well for a woman who is "basically on her death bed" and "senile". Trump didn't even ANSWER several questions which were asked, or he has hearing problems. Stamina <---> Looks comes to mind. Who is senile there?

Clinton

"What did she say Les, how much money did she say I earned? what was that?" That moment stuck out a bit for me. I guess Trump is deaf now.

I eagerly await dozens of OrooroROOOoorroooOOo posts littered with tweets and grainy photos with circles and arrows and snipped non-contextual captions from un-sourced internet blogs showing how old and deaf Trump is.

Any moment now.

 

[zinfamous]

Some of the commentators seem to think that Trump's biggest failing was not going after Clinton hard enough on the e-mails, Clinton foundation, Benghazi, etc. I don't agree. The trouble is that when he did go after her, she displayed a poised, even temperament. Even smiled. Clinton isn't easily rattled like Trump is. I have a feeling that Trump will "take the gloves off" more in the next debate but it will either backfire or just not accomplish much.

Trump's biggest problem tonight was his incoherence, particularly down the stretch. It's ironic that he went after Clinton on "stamina." Her stamina is actually amazing. His, not so much.

the dude had trouble breathing all night. I think they hustled him off stage so quickly because he needed to get back on his Lark.

 

[DrDoug]

From the various opinions I've read around online, while Hillary did well on her own in hammering Donnie, most of the damage he took was self-inflicted. I didn't bother watching since I'm already voting for Hillary and knew that Trump would be his own worst enemy. If I ever want to watch it, it's out there anyway. I'm more interested in how the media is going to resuscitate the horse race in two weeks (next debate). They aren't done yet, not by a long shot.

There's money to be made...

 

[PottedMeat]

Does anyone think he's going to learn from this? Or are we going to see the same thing next week?

 

[vi edit]

I thought he had control of the debates in the first 20 minutes or so. He had some momentum going with the trade part and was hammering that hard. And then the wheels flew off the wagon and he went into full on melt down mode. She played the rope a dope game very well and let him hang himself. That "YOU'VE BEEN FIGHTING ISIS YOUR ENTIRE ADULT LIFE" line has to be put on some kind of billboard and made into a timeline of events. I seriously screamed "WTF was that???" at the TV when he said that. He has no composure, no ability to maintain a coherent stream of thought for longer than 5 minutes, and frankly looked like the unprepared and unpresidential buffoon I expected him to be. In front of 10's of millions of viewers.

I felt bad for the moderator. He was struggling to keep the two of of them on topic and the crowd out of it. He held his composure very well and hopefully had someone buy him a drink at the end of the night. He needed one after that.

Going into the debate I had lost some interest in Clinton and had some fears that she couldn't get the campaign back onto that road. Coming out of the debate I felt like there is only one Presidential ready candidate and she looked prepared and healthy enough to do it. She did very well and hopefully can maintain that momentum through the next 5 weeks.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I felt bad for the moderator. He was struggling to keep the two of of them on topic and the crowd out of it. He held his composure very well and hopefully had someone buy him a drink at the end of the night. He needed one after that.

This.

But also wanted to say, that this is probably the best monitor I have seen in a debate vs. the piss-poor ones used during the republican debates and from prior years.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Does anyone think he's going to learn from this? Or are we going to see the same thing next week?

Trump was an embarrassment, he's a motivated guy. I predict he'll spend a ton of time doing more standard debate prep. He could even turn it around look at Obama's first debate with Romney it can happen.

 

[fskimospy]

From what I've read his 'good' part of the debate on trade was still totally incoherent and based either on lies or no knowledge of economics. China isn't depreciating their currency, and Mexico's VAT applies to Mexican made goods the same as our imports.

So even where he did best he was ignorantly babbling.

 

[fskimospy]

Trump was an embarrassment, he's a motivated guy. I predict he'll spend a ton of time doing more standard debate prep. He could even turn it around look at Obama's first debate with Romney it can happen.

I imagine the second debate will be rated better for him simply because the media will take anything other than another ranting meltdown as an improvement.

As far as him spending a ton more time in preparation though? I'm not so sure about that. I mean they might claim it, but I'm not at all sure he will do it. Competitive nature aside, a consistent refrain from people who have known him over the years is that he has virtually no attention span and is incapable of focusing on one thing for extended periods of time. That makes it hard to do debate prep.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

For some reason I can't edit above, sorry for double post.

Trump proved last night he can easily be manipulated last night. The old spying term "retarded agent" was on full display. He had to accept every challenge Hillary put in front of him to the extent that he spent nearly all his time explaining stuff or just disparately babbling to defend himself
Ask yourself is Hillary better than Putin at manipulating people?

 

[vi edit]

From what I've read his 'good' part of the debate on trade was still totally incoherent and based either on lies or no knowledge of economics. China isn't depreciating their currency, and Mexico's VAT applies to Mexican made goods the same as our imports.

So even where he did best he was ignorantly babbling.

This isn't something that you can "read" and get the full effect. You have to watch it in and take in the full delivery. He was on the rails for the first 20 minutes. He was stern, pointed and deliberate in his delivery. Then she started poking and prodding and he completely lost his composure and went into petulant, rambling imbecile mode.