Maybe if the mods acted with a lot less zeal, this would be a better place. When I would read these forums a couple of years ago, there did not seem like there was a lot of moderator pressure. Now the mods seem to pop up everywhere and the quality of the conversations has gone down...you gotta wonder if there is a connection.
Maybe if the mods acted with a lot less zeal, this would be a better place. When I would read these forums a couple of years ago, there did not seem like there was a lot of moderator pressure. Now the mods seem to pop up everywhere and the quality of the conversations has gone down...you gotta wonder if there is a connection.
Aaaah! Speak of the devil and the devil appears. I have not been to AT for a while now. So, I came visiting today, the Off Topic section, and hardly did I see any interesting topics (according tro my taste). Most topics were geeky and techie stuff. I muttered to myself: Gosh, since when did the geeks take over? I didn't think the revenge of the geeks had gotten that bad. LOL! 
It's all good though. I just wasn't sure where I was with so much techie stuff and the few non-techie stuff not being attractive topics. I miss those many threads that used to ask math questions. But I ran across one today.
Anyway, I'm just babbling. Personally, I think someone will always complain and fault other people for their failure to enjoy forums. And then the new set of people will keep enjoying it, until their turn comes too where there would be a paradigm shift. It's a cycle of internet life and life as a whole.
Thus, as much as I think a lot should have been fixed at the Off Topic forum, we may as well have it this way. Creating a serious discussion forum will be all good at first. But as time goes on, it will start to deteriorate . . . it's just how long and when. Simply look at other forums as models. Further more, there is likely to stem complaints nonetheless that the off topic is full of crap, despite the creation of a serious forum sub-category. Besides, does not it defeat the focus of this forum as a whole? Is not off-topic just a a supplement?
I think we are fine this way. The only good that will last is that it will be much easier to sort out serious discussions, which is often what I look for. However, it is often and easily buried in mass information/threads.
It's all good though. I just wasn't sure where I was with so much techie stuff and the few non-techie stuff not being attractive topics. I miss those many threads that used to ask math questions. But I ran across one today.
Anyway, I'm just babbling. Personally, I think someone will always complain and fault other people for their failure to enjoy forums. And then the new set of people will keep enjoying it, until their turn comes too where there would be a paradigm shift. It's a cycle of internet life and life as a whole.
Thus, as much as I think a lot should have been fixed at the Off Topic forum, we may as well have it this way. Creating a serious discussion forum will be all good at first. But as time goes on, it will start to deteriorate . . . it's just how long and when. Simply look at other forums as models. Further more, there is likely to stem complaints nonetheless that the off topic is full of crap, despite the creation of a serious forum sub-category. Besides, does not it defeat the focus of this forum as a whole? Is not off-topic just a a supplement?
I think we are fine this way. The only good that will last is that it will be much easier to sort out serious discussions, which is often what I look for. However, it is often and easily buried in mass information/threads.
The primary reason i still come to AT is because of OT. I can say anything i want and if i get flamed (only happened once, for the record), i take it. If ATOT changes, i may throw away my subscription.
-=bmacd=-
-=bmacd=-
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
OT = BS and venomouse Hate forum.
I think I'll puke the net time I see another religion or religionbashing topic... they are always the same. And the usual suspects chime in with their tired rhetoric.
People need to get their heads out of their respected A$$es and realize that ZERO amount ot talk will change anyones mind, to think otherwise is foolhardy!
just my 2 cents
I think I'll puke the net time I see another religion or religionbashing topic... they are always the same. And the usual suspects chime in with their tired rhetoric.
People need to get their heads out of their respected A$$es and realize that ZERO amount ot talk will change anyones mind, to think otherwise is foolhardy!
just my 2 cents
Cyco
Diamond Member
- Jan 15, 2002
- 4,241
- 173
- 106
I understand your point yet again Alpha, yet you're trying to fix something that really isn't broken. Yes, there are those that abuse the forums, and yes the repost police in any form are annoying, but for a forum that has as many members as this one does, it ain't half bad. I was there with you at the demise of Sharkyforums OT, catching the tail end of it, and ATOT, although bearing some similarities at times, is nowhere near as bad as that got. Sometimes you have to fill in the meaningful discussions with useless banter. It is a necessary evil if you ask me. I like the fact that I migrated here just for the fact that I could let loose sometimes and not have to be serious all the time. Sometimes it's fun just to say NEF. Other times it's more enjoyable to pick somebody's brain. All in all, it's just good fun.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,391
- 19,711
- 146
Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Amused -
Your posts are actually quite good. They are well composed, and add value.
There are some good debate threads that are here - but they are far outnumbered by meaningless crap. Not long ago, I would waste hours of my employer's time posting in heated debates with Czar, Elledan, Texbastard
There was no shortage of topics... there were very few nef threads... One could actually have a sustained discussion.
The problem with the meaningless crap posted for the sole effort of raising post cout is that it relegates the meaningful stuff worthy of a response to the murky depths, sometimes never to rise again. That is a real shame, and it is a far cry from what it used to be before being overrun by AOL chatroom refugees...
And guess what?
Two of those posters are gone, while the "harmless" nefs are neffing away unopposed. The problem is not neffing, it's banning people for offending othres with their opinions. The serious posters are scared to post offensive opinions for fear of being banned.
No one gets banned for telling jokes in people's threads or screaming repost at every turn. But gawd forbid they express an unpopular opinion in someone's thread.
Now I agree that Tex went overboard, but you have to admit that his posts had substance.
The number of quality threads (meaning, those I enter of course) has been slowly shrinking. That said, I have no problem with innane/pointless/kiddie threads. I don't have to read them.
But I agree with etech in that there are too many putzes ruining the few remaining decent threads. They nef in them, make completely stupid remarks, start flame wars, etc. It's a tough call but I think the mods should lock down more on these individuals. The problem there is the risk of locking the decent threads.
I don't feel things are at rock bottom yet but the trend is leading us in that direction.
But I agree with etech in that there are too many putzes ruining the few remaining decent threads. They nef in them, make completely stupid remarks, start flame wars, etc. It's a tough call but I think the mods should lock down more on these individuals. The problem there is the risk of locking the decent threads.
I don't feel things are at rock bottom yet but the trend is leading us in that direction.
AmusedOne,Originally posted by: AmusedOne
Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Amused -
Your posts are actually quite good. They are well composed, and add value.
There are some good debate threads that are here - but they are far outnumbered by meaningless crap. Not long ago, I would waste hours of my employer's time posting in heated debates with Czar, Elledan, Texbastard
There was no shortage of topics... there were very few nef threads... One could actually have a sustained discussion.
The problem with the meaningless crap posted for the sole effort of raising post cout is that it relegates the meaningful stuff worthy of a response to the murky depths, sometimes never to rise again. That is a real shame, and it is a far cry from what it used to be before being overrun by AOL chatroom refugees...
And guess what?
Two of those posters are gone, while the "harmless" nefs are neffing away unopposed. The problem is not neffing, it's banning people for offending othres with their opinions. The serious posters are scared to post offensive opinions for fear of being banned.
No one gets banned for telling jokes in people's threads or screaming repost at every turn. But gawd forbid they express an unpopular opinion in someone's thread.
Now I agree that Tex went overboard, but you have to admit that his posts had substance.
You've got some valid points; however, you have to remember that one of the things that this forum is built on is respect. I, for example, have a certain degree of respect for you; unfortunately, some members (those banned you mentioned) were lacking in that department. Their posts were definitely entertaining, and while their debating styles were somewhat repetitive, they were given the boot for their actions - in both cases, going against previous warnings and showing an absolute disdain for different members of the board - and not for the fact that they express strong opinions. You know that as well as I - after all, there are a number of opinionated members (from all sides of the spectrum) who haven't been banned, nor will they be, as long as cool heads prevail.
Regarding the problem of "fixing" ATOT: what vision of offtopia do you have? Therein lies the problem. Not everyone has the same vision of paradise, and trying to regulate it would be difficult; it would merely send the membership away.
I know that many people are annoyed by the proclivity toward nef posts in ATOT right now; though I would generally agree, I think that all of us have a nef moment or two. Without being authoritarians, it would be hard for the moderators to police such actions in this forum.
After all, we must remember that one of the best comments in any heated debate at AnandTech was:
(older members should get that one)
Rob
Heh. No, the hair has recovered.Originally posted by: AmusedOne
I agree for the most part, Entity.
BTW, are you still bald?
Rob
AmusedOne
That is all I am advocating.
Nefing used to be banned. Now we have threads about who is the ?Prince of Nefs?. As someon said before, I don?t have to read the chat threads and don?t have a problem with them. I?ll even join in every once in awhile. But it seems to me there is a small group of people who are here only to up their post count. That needs to be reined in before it becomes the norm of not just this forum but all of the AT forums.
Entity
Having a nef moment or two is not a problem. People making it their only style of posting can be a problem. That's the difference. I'm not asking for new draconian rules to be put in force. Just some of the old ones to be enforced. That is all.
"(older members should get that one) "
I'm an older, some would say grouchy older member but I don't remember that one.
edit/
Nocturnal
forgive me but I'm going to pick on you for a moment.
"That won't be happening"
What won't be happening? Splitting the forums? Why don't you think so. Do you think it is a good or bad idea. Why or why not.
There is nothing wrong with concisely expressing yourself but I think you have taken it a bit too far. If you have something to say, why not say it so everyone won't be wondering what you ment. Your one line post really didn't add anything to the discussion as far as I can tell or at least I didn't get anything out of it.
I think all I am asking is that people exercise a little restraint before hitting the reply button. Put a little thought into your post. Add something to the main disscussion, not in every post you make but in at least most of them. Cut down a little on the clutter of the forum.
That is all I am advocating.
Nefing used to be banned. Now we have threads about who is the ?Prince of Nefs?. As someon said before, I don?t have to read the chat threads and don?t have a problem with them. I?ll even join in every once in awhile. But it seems to me there is a small group of people who are here only to up their post count. That needs to be reined in before it becomes the norm of not just this forum but all of the AT forums.
Entity
Having a nef moment or two is not a problem. People making it their only style of posting can be a problem. That's the difference. I'm not asking for new draconian rules to be put in force. Just some of the old ones to be enforced. That is all.
"(older members should get that one) "
I'm an older, some would say grouchy older member but I don't remember that one.
edit/
Nocturnal
forgive me but I'm going to pick on you for a moment.
"That won't be happening"
What won't be happening? Splitting the forums? Why don't you think so. Do you think it is a good or bad idea. Why or why not.
There is nothing wrong with concisely expressing yourself but I think you have taken it a bit too far. If you have something to say, why not say it so everyone won't be wondering what you ment. Your one line post really didn't add anything to the discussion as far as I can tell or at least I didn't get anything out of it.
I think all I am asking is that people exercise a little restraint before hitting the reply button. Put a little thought into your post. Add something to the main disscussion, not in every post you make but in at least most of them. Cut down a little on the clutter of the forum.
LOL Rob,
at least some of us remember the old days.
Btw it suited you
Seriously though all this would be a moot point if bandwidth were free but the reality is the real problem is a momental waste of resources as well as the inability to really carry on any kind of meaningful discussion anymore. While neffing and "freedom of expression" are in and off themselves not evil or wrong, when taken to the extreme they create an enviroment where they dominate everything and real freedom of expression or anything else for that matter cannot happen.
Those of you who think ATOT is fine now were probably not around in the "golden days" as some people call them and therefore have no real comparison. Now it is not to say that those of us who have been here for a while did not have our silly moments as those who remember the butter incident can atest to but it was nowhere as widespread and stifling to all other topics as it is today. Furthermore at the time we were a rather small community (heck I didn't even have an account yet I just lurked) and bandwidth usage was not a severe.
I guess it comes down to this. I would rather see ATOT shut down completely than pay higher subscription costs or see the entire forums shut down because some people feel the need to "express" themselves.
ANd to those who try to tell me anand is making money in advertising on these forums you are either stuck in 1999 delusional or have no idea how the internet works.
The bandwidth you use comes out of the subscribers pockets and anand's generosity. Let's no forget why we have this priviledge. It is after all a priveledge and priveledges that are abused are somtimes recinded.
at least some of us remember the old days.
Btw it suited you
Seriously though all this would be a moot point if bandwidth were free but the reality is the real problem is a momental waste of resources as well as the inability to really carry on any kind of meaningful discussion anymore. While neffing and "freedom of expression" are in and off themselves not evil or wrong, when taken to the extreme they create an enviroment where they dominate everything and real freedom of expression or anything else for that matter cannot happen.
Those of you who think ATOT is fine now were probably not around in the "golden days" as some people call them and therefore have no real comparison. Now it is not to say that those of us who have been here for a while did not have our silly moments as those who remember the butter incident can atest to but it was nowhere as widespread and stifling to all other topics as it is today. Furthermore at the time we were a rather small community (heck I didn't even have an account yet I just lurked) and bandwidth usage was not a severe.
I guess it comes down to this. I would rather see ATOT shut down completely than pay higher subscription costs or see the entire forums shut down because some people feel the need to "express" themselves.
ANd to those who try to tell me anand is making money in advertising on these forums you are either stuck in 1999 delusional or have no idea how the internet works.
The bandwidth you use comes out of the subscribers pockets and anand's generosity. Let's no forget why we have this priviledge. It is after all a priveledge and priveledges that are abused are somtimes recinded.
pyonir
Lifer
- Dec 18, 2001
- 40,856
- 321
- 126
i think it should be separated.
On Topic: Debates and discussions that have been beaten to death a million times, and a few other good discussion threads.
Off Topic: The FUN forum.
We all know we shouldn't have fun! Have to argue about everything and even if it starts fun, it has to end in a pissing match otherwise it just is a worthless, nef thread.
give it a fvcking rest already. There are just as many threads bitching about this as there are nef threads. Let the mods and administrators worry about it, and decide what to do.
On Topic: Debates and discussions that have been beaten to death a million times, and a few other good discussion threads.
Off Topic: The FUN forum.
We all know we shouldn't have fun! Have to argue about everything and even if it starts fun, it has to end in a pissing match otherwise it just is a worthless, nef thread.
give it a fvcking rest already. There are just as many threads bitching about this as there are nef threads. Let the mods and administrators worry about it, and decide what to do.
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 31,045
- 2,689
- 126
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