Let's discuss the underlying hatred...

[flyfish]

<< IMHO, it boils down to simple and blind intolerance on the part of the radicals.

No matter who you are, what religion you may or may not practice, if it is not Islam, then you are an Infidel and should die.

And to suggest that a non-Muslim merely being on a piece of ground that is supposedly Holy is blasphemous is just another example of their intolerance.

It's ludicrous, prejudiced, and a slew of other unflattering descriptives, with no clear end/solution in sight ... >>



These people are just doing what their God has commanded them to do.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< That's part of what I don't understand... why is Jerusalem holy to Muslems? I thought only Mecca was? >>



To my knowledge, Jerusalem is the city where Mohammed ascended to heaven. Also, Medina is a holy city for muslims.

EDIT: The lighter side of terrorist-attack:

Instructions for CEO's

 

[zephyrprime]

<< What does Al Qaeda hate about their own countries, and what does it mean when you say America is a scapegoat for that hatred? Do you think these people commited suicide in killing thousands of Americans for a scapegoat? >>


I do think their killing thousands of Americans is "for a scapegoat". They hate their scapegoat (us) so they're trying to kill us.

To answer the first question, the Al Qaeda people hate how their own governments work with the US. Bin Laden hates how his own country, Saudi Arabia, lets the infidel American military on their soil. I also think these Al Qaeda fundamentalists hate secularism and want to create more pure Islamic states. They want theocratic states.
Also, I think there's more to it than just scapegoating. I think it also has a lot to do with simple Religious absolutism and intolerance. The Religious aspect may even be a stronger effect than the scapegoating.

 

[Nefrodite]

hm what did we do to piss off the nazis? sure we were a tad heavy handed after ww1, but did that justify the holocaust? you can't reason with fanatics, they base their opinions on assumptions rooted in faith. so if we ask all the questions you did replacing middle east with the nazi regiem, they seem rather silly.

 

[zephyrprime]

<< hm what did we do to piss off the nazis? >>


I don't think you got my point. My point has very much in common with what you said. I never said we pissed the Nazis off. My whole point was that the Nazis were pissed at the Jews *without* having a good reason. And that the current situation is similiar because the terrorist also hate us without a good reason.

 

[AdamDuritz99]

<<

<< hm what did we do to piss off the nazis? >>


I don't think you got my point. My point has very much in common with what you said. I never said we pissed the Nazis off. My whole point was that the Nazis were pissed at the Jews *without* having a good reason. And that the current situation is similiar because the terrorist also hate us without a good reason. >>



Only thing i have to say against your argument is, what is "good reason"? Though, we learn from our mistakes(or die b/c of them), i think most people really believe they have a "good reason", though it really might not be. just a thought...

peace
sean

 

[b0mbrman]

I'm sure this is an awesome discussion...I promise in a couple days after my finals that I'll read it all and contribute...

 

[Looney]

I hope there's a difference between dancing in the streets at the news of your "enemy" being attacked and actually murdering your fellow man.

Yes there is, but that doesn't mean they're NOT extremists. Would you consider people who praise pedophilers as normal citizens?

 

[busmaster11]

<<

<< hm what did we do to piss off the nazis? >>


I don't think you got my point. My point has very much in common with what you said. I never said we pissed the Nazis off. My whole point was that the Nazis were pissed at the Jews *without* having a good reason. And that the current situation is similiar because the terrorist also hate us without a good reason. >>



Here's the thing though. The key is PERSPECTIVE. There is no good and justifiable reason to US why the Nazis did what they did. That doesn't mean they don't have one. What were their reasons?

I started this thread in the hopes of answering the parallel to that question, from the perspectives of the Al Qaeda.

 

[XMan]

Bin Laden offered his services to the king of Saudi Arabia when Irak was about to invade Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war, the king declined his offer and asked the US for help, and after the war the US kept their troops over there, that got him pissed off.

Just to clarify, King Fahd requested that the US station troops in Saudi. That said, Fahd and his family are not well regarded (the same goes for many of the US-supported heads of state in the region) by the average man on the street.

This, to me, is just as important a reason that we are disliked as our support of Israel. We support and defend with military force a ruling class that absorbs the vast wealth of a region (oil, of course) and leaves their subjects to wallow in squalor. Maybe if the people had some of the freedoms that we as Americans share, they might be less quick to anger. Hopefully we can get a good start by installing a democratic form of government in Afghanistan.

 

[Palek]

<< Just to clarify, King Fahd requested that the US station troops in Saudi. That said, Fahd and his family are not well regarded (the same goes for many of the US-supported heads of state in the region) by the average man on the street.

This, to me, is just as important a reason that we are disliked as our support of Israel. We support and defend with military force a ruling class that absorbs the vast wealth of a region (oil, of course) and leaves their subjects to wallow in squalor. >>



Indeed. But what is the reason for the US supporting these certain heads of state in the Middle East? I mean, it certainly isn't for the benefit of the people... Why? Is it really only for their oil/money? Is that all there is to it? I certainly wish not, because that would put the US in really bad light...

 

[etech]

Nemesis77
To my knowledge, Jerusalem is the city where Mohammed ascended to heaven.


Jerusalem Means More to Jews Than to Muslims

"Jerusalem has a unique importance to Jews. It has a unique place in Jewish law and a pervasive presence in the Jewish religion. Jews pray toward Jerusalem, mourn the destruction of their Temple there, and wishfully repeat the phrase "Next year in Jerusalem." It is the only capital of the Jewish state, ancient or modern.

In contrast, Jerusalem has a distinctly secondary place for Moslems. It is not once mentioned in the Koran or in the liturgy. The Prophet Mohammed never went to the city, nor did he have ties to it. Jerusalem never has served as the capital of any polity, and has never been an Islamic cultural center.
.....

Jerusalem being of minor importance to Islam, why do Moslems nowadays insist that the city is more important to them than to Jews? The answer has to do with politics. Moslems take religious interest in Jerusalem when it serves practical interests. When those concerns lapse, so does the standing of Jerusalem. This pattern has recurred at least five times over 14 centuries.
.......
"

The Muslims do not really want Jerusalem, they only want it because it is important to the Jews.

 

[mundania]

That article is only one-side of the story. From what I gather from other sources, Jerusalem is immensely important to the Muslims.

History Channel

Susquehanna University

Palestine-Info.com

BBC
In particular:


<< For secular Jews, the Temple Mount is a
profound national symbol. The capture of the
Western or Wailing Wall in 1967 was, even for
the non-devout, a great national achievement.

Equally, the Haram al-Sharif is of deep religious
and political significance to Palestinians and to
Muslims around the world.

For Palestinians, having their future capital in
East Jerusalem is a fundamental element of
any future state. >>

 

[Palek]

It's great to see that this thread has not turned into a flaming contest. Lots of people contributed with intelligent comments and very interesting links - made me realize my knowledge of the topic was close to nothing, and made me want to learn more. This is the kind of discussion I love participating in. I did not start this thread, but I still want to say: thanks, everyone. And keep'em coming.