lets cut off israel

[LtPage1]

i say we cut off all money to israel, and limit our interaction with them to non-weapons trade and intelligence. stop sending them nukes, tanks, and m-16s, and theyll be forced to deal with the palestinians in a hurry. and lets stop defending their ridiculous actions to the UN.

yes, im aware of the whole west bank (i think?) pullback, but who really believes theyll go through with it and enforce it?


to make myself clear: im in no way anti-israel, but i do see US israel policy to be one of the major causes of global terrorism, and im disgusted by israel policy dealing with the palestinians (who certainly arent blameless, but the israelis have the power to stop it all and arent). why should we support them being stupid?

 

[Dari]

israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

mm no. im only 18, refresh my memory.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
i say we cut off all money to israel, and limit our interaction with them to non-weapons trade and intelligence. stop sending them nukes, tanks, and m-16s, and theyll be forced to deal with the palestinians in a hurry. and lets stop defending their ridiculous actions to the UN.

For starters, you might want to educate yourself further. The US never sent nukes to Israel, and the US has been entirely producing its own domestic designed tank, the Merkava, and has not relied on US imports for awhile now. While Israel has been using M-16s since the US has been making them available cheaply, they already have an effective domestic design in the Tavor. A large portion of Israeli weaponry has at least domestically designed items they can use.

I think Israel has been taking significant steps already, with a withdrawl of settlement from Gaza and now their move on the West Bank, I think disrupting things the way you are suggesting at the moment would be extremely counter productive.

 

[dannybin1742]

i agree, i also support stopping sending money abroad to any country, then i'll start voting for people who cut taxes, fix the problems here before we start trying to solve the world's problems

its time they stand on their own two feet

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: dannybin1742
i agree, i also support stopping sending money abroad to any country, then i'll start voting for people who cut taxes, fix the problems here before we start trying to solve the world's problems

its time they stand on their own two feet

i agree with you with certain countries like israel- but unfortunately, too many countries got royally effed by imperialism, etc., and just arent ready yet. to cut them loose would lead to more darfur-like genocide and a sinking global economy.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: LtPage1

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

mm no. im only 18, refresh my memory.

There have been allegations that the China's new domestically designed fighter, the J-10 is heavily based on prototype information on the Israeli Lavi fighter. This was a domestically designed Israeli fighter which was killed late in development, with three protypes being built before the project was cancelled in late 1987.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/lavi/Lavi.html

The primary reason the project was cancelled was heavy US pressure motivated by concerns from US fighter aircraft makes about the competition the fighter would represent on the international market.

 

[judasmachine]

I vote we cut of israel, as I don't want palestinian blood on my hands. Settlement of an illegal fronteir is why my forefathers were slaughtered. Israel is guilty of a slow masked genocide.

 

[Aimster]

Israel is only alive today because of the U.S.
You want the people of Israel to die?

Lets cut our funds to Egypt, Turkey as well.

 

[raildogg]

First off, you are a ignoramus who doesn't understand what you're talking about. Secondly, you sound like a typical anti-Semite bigot.

A lot of Israeli weapons are made by Israelis. They actually have great engineers and technicians who build these weapons instead of putting on a bomb belt and blowing up kids. The Merkava tank is Israeli and ranks among the best tanks in the world, for both its great armor which protects the crew and for its firepower. A lot of the small arms are produced by Israel.

In fact, Israel is top 5 in the world in terms of arms exports. It is really astonishing when you consider it has as many people as Virginia has and is about the size of Delaware. We give as much aid to Egypt as we give Israel. Do you support that?

Also, Egypt buys more arms from the US than Israel does. What is your opinion of that?

Israel is fighting the same terrorists we are fighting and in fact, it is on the front lines in the global war on terrorism. Those who support America in its war on terror must realize that Israel is fighting the same terrorists. There is no occupation and there was never any Palestinian land, its a myth generated by the enemies of Israel and Jew haters.

but the israelis have the power to stop it all

That just shows how ignorant you really are. Israel does stop Arab terrorists from blowing up Jews each day, but sometimes the terrorists get lucky. Just like the Tel Aviv bombing a few weeks ago. Israel is dismantling settlements even if many Israelis don't want that to happen. Also, Arafat was offerened 90% of what he wanted a few years ago and rejected it. What do you say to that?

Islamic radicals are at war with the civilized world. That is a fact and it has nothing to do with Israel.

Chechnya, Kashmir, Mindinao, Indonesia, the increasing violence of radical Muslims in Thailand and a whole lot more conflicts that include Islamic radicals have nothing to do with Israel.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel is only alive today because of the U.S.
You want the people of Israel to die?

Lets cut our funds to Egypt, Turkey as well.

Actually, that's not true. The US did not support Israel militarily until after the 67' war. They survived during the 48-49 war because of France and Britain (not sure if anyone else sent them weapons). Second of all, if US severed funds to Israel, we would lose one of the few nations actively fighting terror, and they would go on just fine. In fact, that plane that they canceled in 87' due to US pressure might resurface, costing American companies money.

America also has some interest in Israel's Arrow missile defense shield, which is a significant improvement over our patriot and patriot II missile sites.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

China is VERY happy to buy Israeli weaponry and has done so in the past. Presumably China would almost immediately buy the Phalcon AWACS aircraft from Israel that the US blocked during the 1990s. China would also be VERY interested in license production of the Python 5 Missile, and would be willing to give their right arm to get ahold of Israel's impressive SPICE smart glide bomb that can hit targets 60 kilometers away with pinpoint accuracy from the point they are launched.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/...stems/air_missiles/python/Python5.html
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/..._systems/air_missiles/spice/Spice.htm

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

China is VERY happy to buy Israeli weaponry and has done so in the past. Presumably China would almost immediately buy the Phalcon AWACS aircraft from Israel that the US blocked during the 1990s. China would also be VERY interested in license production of the Python 5 Missile, and would be willing to give their right arm to get ahold of Israel's impressive SPICE smart glide bomb that can hit targets 60 kilometers away with pinpoint accuracy from the point they are launched.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/...stems/air_missiles/python/Python5.html
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/..._systems/air_missiles/spice/Spice.html

Heh, at least buying weapon is fair trade. What I doubt China will do is give $3 billion to Israel year after year in all kinds of assistance. Like what America does here.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

Haha, that's right, there are countries other than America that gives Israel $3 billion every year for the last 20 years, mostly in military assistance. And if you really think American government does that out of goodness of heart, I am not going to waste my time debating with a naive person like you.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

Haha, that's right, there are countries other than America that gives Israel $3 billion every year for the last 20 years, mostly in military assistance. And if you really think American government does that out of goodness of heart, I am not going to waste my time debating with a naive person like you.

We give Egypt billions each year. And thats just aid, not military equipment.

Yout point?

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

Haha, that's right, there are countries other than America that gives Israel $3 billion every year for the last 20 years, mostly in military assistance. And if you really think American government does that out of goodness of heart, I am not going to waste my time debating with a naive person like you.

We give Egypt billions each year. And thats just aid, not military equipment.

Yout point?

Egypt gets 1/2 of Israel's assistance while having 10x the population and much worse economic condition. Care to explain that?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

Haha, that's right, there are countries other than America that gives Israel $3 billion every year for the last 20 years, mostly in military assistance. And if you really think American government does that out of goodness of heart, I am not going to waste my time debating with a naive person like you.

We give Egypt billions each year. And thats just aid, not military equipment.

Yout point?

Egypt gets 1/2 of Israel's assistance while having 10x the population and much worse economic condition. Care to explain that?

Not sure about that. But we give Egypt direct aid in and also aid in economic development. Not to mention reduced prices in military equipment. Egypt gets more US military equipment than Israel does.

So your argument totally falls apart when you claim the Arabs are defenseless while Israel is the big bad bully. Egypt has a pretty substantial military, thanks to America and American taxpayer money.

Even with all this American aid, Egypt's unemployment rate is 25%!

So much for giving billions of dollars to a despotic regime each year, eh. We have given Egypt $50 billion in the past few decades.

 

[DealMonkey]

I've suggested this very thing before but the "OMG! We need to hasten the rapture" folks has some serious problems with it.

 

[AnImuS]

With Israel's Stockpile of nukes(and not too long ago put on subs aswell),
Under our military protection pact, it has enough assurances to survive. All foreign aid should be stopped.

All foreign aid could be directed towards our schools were its most needed to continue our success.

I also wouldnt mind more of my money back

 

[raildogg]

Funny, I see you people picking on tiny little Israel when we giving the same aid to Egypt is totally acceptable by you guys.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari
israel will only move closer to china. Remember the levi fighter?

Heh, yeah take on the whole Muslim world so they can do little arm deal with Isreal? Chinese is smarter then you think. Oh and plus Chinese don't have bunch of Jewish people in their gonvernment or paying their politicians, so I highly doubt Chinese government is gonna take over America and be the protector of Isreal.

No, actually Israel is allying itself with India, Turkey and other decent countries around the world. Israeli's ties with Russia have certainly warmed in the recent years. If I'm not mistaken, there are about 1 million Russians who live in Israel. There is a lot more commonality between Russia and Israel than differences and they are both fighting Radical Islamists, just like India is.

You're a typical hater who repeats all the lies that have been said before. What Jews are in the Bush administration? Just because America is a strong supporter of Israel doesn't mean the evil Jews are forcing pressure on the government to support it.

Harry S. Truman was probably one of the most strongest backers of Israel and instantly recognized the state, was he being pressured by Jews as well? In fact, since Israel's creation in 1948, every American administration has had very good ties with Israel, so were there Jews in every America administration that pressured the government?

Also, why would America back Israel, a country so tiny and with only about 6 million people? It has very little natural resources, not an abundant labor force and a limited clout. Clearly, America should back those tyrannical Arab countries which have so much land and hundreds of millions of people and billions of barrles of blood oil. Right?

There is something called standing up for what is right.

Haha, that's right, there are countries other than America that gives Israel $3 billion every year for the last 20 years, mostly in military assistance. And if you really think American government does that out of goodness of heart, I am not going to waste my time debating with a naive person like you.

We give Egypt billions each year. And thats just aid, not military equipment.

Yout point?

Don't we do that only because they made peace with Israel? That aid didn't start until the Camp David Accords. it was part of the package

 

[smc13]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I vote we cut of israel, as I don't want palestinian blood on my hands. Settlement of an illegal fronteir is why my forefathers were slaughtered. Israel is guilty of a slow masked genocide.

Palestinian blood on your hands? Where do you guys come up with the idea that the Jews are the bad guys? The Israelis are the democratic government of the region. their neighbors support terrorism. Syria is a large supporter of terrorism. They have ties to hezbollah, islamic jihad, the PLO, etc. Then you have egypt with its "President" Murbarak. Mubarak has been President for about twenty years, ever since Sadat was assassinated for making peace with the Israelis, and Mubarak has never allowed elections. Then there is Jordan who attacked Israel as soon as the British pulled out, failed at anihilating Israel, but took control of the West Bank and refused to allow the Palestinians to create their own country (Arafat tried to assassinate King Hussein). Of course you have the Palestinians themselves. They teach their kids to throw rocks at people with machine guns and tanks and teach their teens to blow themselves up for. The families of the suicide bombers are heros and are given money by the various arab countries. Palestinians who are friendly to Israelis are beaten and/or murdered.

So how did Israel become the bad guy?

 

[LtPage1]

this is primarily aimed at raildogg-

SLOW DOWN. calm WAY down, buddy. i am NOT an anti-semite. my ancestors were jewish, and a lot of them died in the holocaust. so stfu. secondly. yes, im ignorant. thats why i started this thread. educate me.

now, come on. this is a cycle. every time the israelis retaliate a suicide bomber, the terrorists blow up another bus, and the israelis retaliate, and the terrorists kill some more israelis in a mall. and the IDF retaliates. over and over. the terrorists are scattered, leaderless, but they have the support of the palestinian people, a HUGE majority of whom want peace. but israel keeps retaliating and accidentally killing palestinian babies. these are unavoidable casualties of war- except that all they have to do is stop. just stop killing them. in fact, dont retaliate for a couple of times. and then pull the F out of occupied territory, start negotiating, and make some serious concessions. et voila, the terrorists lose their support base because israel isnt a threat anymore, and they wither and die within a decade.

or maybe im wrong- but tell me why and how, dont call me an anti-semitic ignoramus.



and our support of egypt is oftentimes misguided as well. but im not talking about egypt, im talking about israel. so stop being a knee-jerk apologist and stick to the issue at hand.