Let's all play the latest Republican game of chance

[BMW540I6speed]

The phenomenon described may not be so much an "emulation of our enemies" as a fundamental schism between liberal and conservative mindsets.

According to the largest meta-analysis of psychological studies of political orientation, conducted in 2003, two conclusions leap out:

First, conservatives have a low tolerance for ambiguity. Hence the need to view things as purely good or purely bad, and the obsessive disdain for "moral relativism." Their world is black and white. No grays.

The second conclusion, according to Psychology Today:

"Those who think the world is highly dangerous and those with the greatest fear of death are the most likely to be conservative."

The strong correlation with fear of death explains much of the conservative mindset: The need for the existence of an after-life, which often manifests as religious zealotry; the need to kill "them" before they kill "us", which describes the irrational fear of people who are not of the same race or tribe(xenophobia and racism), which helps explain why illegal immigration is such a hot-button issue for conservatives but not liberals.

I'm sure there are evolutionary advantages to being fearful, and that conservatism is an important balance to the potential excesses of liberalism. But conservatism unchecked, like that we have faced over the past six years, is a truly a terrible thing.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: yllus
How pathetic. At least have the balls to fess up to what you were clearly insinuating.

Clearly this is more of a problem for you than for me. I can't remember a time when my position on any issue ever lined up so neatly with the KKK. But hey, whatever you guys say.

So I guess its ok if I say that those that want our troops out of Iraq are on the same side as the terrorists then right?

Its been said and repeatedly to anyone not supporting the invasion and the occupation.

I know that, and most of you will jump on that person when they say that. You proved my point that DealMonkey is being dishonest, thanks.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: yllus
Considering it's not even my country that has the problem we're discussing, I doubt the problem is mine. I just find it sad when an adult pretends like this was a verbal discussion and not a written one - your insinuation is pretty clear, yet you try to weasel yourself out of it regardless.

As I said, pathetic.

I never tried to weasel out of anything. My point stands on its own. It you don't get it, then it's clearly your problem, not mine.

Originally posted by: JD50
So I guess its ok if I say that those that want our troops out of Iraq are on the same side as the terrorists then right?

The Iraq and illegal immigration issues have what in common again? Oh yeah, nothing, but feel free to act defensive and try and change the subject.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: yllus
Considering it's not even my country that has the problem we're discussing, I doubt the problem is mine. I just find it sad when an adult pretends like this was a verbal discussion and not a written one - your insinuation is pretty clear, yet you try to weasel yourself out of it regardless.

As I said, pathetic.

I never tried to weasel out of anything. My point stands on its own. It you don't get it, then it's clearly your problem, not mine.

Originally posted by: JD50
So I guess its ok if I say that those that want our troops out of Iraq are on the same side as the terrorists then right?

The Iraq and illegal immigration issues have what in common again? Oh yeah, nothing, but feel free to act defensive and try and change the subject.

I was making a point, one that obviously you can't refute.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: JD50
I was making a point, one that obviously you can't refute.

Why would I bother? It's your opinion, it can be as ignorant as you want.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: OrByte
Illegal immigration has about as much to do with breaking the law as with racism.

whats that you say???

QFT

how is that the truth? the word "illegal" defines the action as one in which laws are broken.

I bet you're one of those who like to use the words "undocumented alien" instead, eh?

f'n ridiculous...

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Ahhh yes, young Republicans thinking outside the box. Well, at least they're in good company:

Hrmm... I've read an argument like this before somewhere... Ah, that's right - here it is!

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: JD50
I was making a point, one that obviously you can't refute.

Why would I bother? It's your opinion, it can be as ignorant as you want.

Once again, you resort to name calling instead of debating the topic. Why bother posting on this message board if you aren't interesting in others opinions? You realize thats what this whole board is right?

So it's not ignorant to insinuate that everyone that is against illegal immigrations is racist?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Ahhh yes, young Republicans thinking outside the box. Well, at least they're in good company:

Hrmm... I've read an argument like this before somewhere... Ah, that's right - here it is!

So it begs the question, how does one weed out the illegal immigrants from the populace?

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Ahhh yes, young Republicans thinking outside the box. Well, at least they're in good company:

Sadly this is the typical response to such "controversies." If you do not wish to engage in a productive dialogue, make it about race, and then demonize your opponents as racist.

Because anyone who opposes illegal immigration simply must be racist...right?

LOL! I never made any such accusation, I simply demonstrated how you guys and the KKK are on the same side of this issue.

The KKK supports the 1st Amendment. I support the 1st Amendment. OMG! We're on the same side. I must be a racist!

The KKK supports the 2nd Amendment. I support the 2nd Amendment. OMFG! We're on the same side. I must be a racist!

People can be on the same side of any given issue but for different reasons. You're comparing the WHAT to the WHY. Comparing people who are against ILLEGAL immigration to a group that defines itself by racism and happens to be against ILLEGAL immigration also is logically fallacious.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Ahhh yes, young Republicans thinking outside the box. Well, at least they're in good company:

Hrmm... I've read an argument like this before somewhere... Ah, that's right - here it is!

So it begs the question, how does one weed out the illegal immigrants from the populace?

Well, you could start with deporting them anytime they are caught by the Police. Whenever I caught some illegals, the INS would not take them unless there were 10 or more.

 

[sierrita]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: yllus
How pathetic. At least have the balls to fess up to what you were clearly insinuating.

Clearly this is more of a problem for you than for me. I can't remember a time when my position on any issue ever lined up so neatly with the KKK. But hey, whatever you guys say.

So I guess its ok if I say that those that want our troops out of Iraq are on the same side as the terrorists then right?

Um...No, you've got it completely backwards, as usual.

"The terrorists" (sic) want us to remain in Iraq.

They'd rather fight us there than having to come all the way over here.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: sierrita

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: yllus
How pathetic. At least have the balls to fess up to what you were clearly insinuating.

Clearly this is more of a problem for you than for me. I can't remember a time when my position on any issue ever lined up so neatly with the KKK. But hey, whatever you guys say.

So I guess its ok if I say that those that want our troops out of Iraq are on the same side as the terrorists then right?

Um...No, you've got it completely backwards, as usual.

"The terrorists" (sic) want us to remain in Iraq.

They'd rather fight us there than having to come all the way over here.

Oh ok, cool. So you believe that we should stay in Iraq so that we can fight them there instead of here. Thanks for clarifying your position.

Anyways, that question was not for you, it was for DealMonkey, who has yet to respond to my question.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: JD50
I was making a point, one that obviously you can't refute.

Why would I bother? It's your opinion, it can be as ignorant as you want.

Once again, you resort to name calling instead of debating the topic. Why bother posting on this message board if you aren't interesting in others opinions? You realize thats what this whole board is right?

So it's not ignorant to insinuate that everyone that is against illegal immigrations is racist?

Look, I admit it, I was messing with you guys a little this morning. Of course I don't think everyone who is anti-immigration is a racist, but clearly some of them are. Given the GOP's reputation as a peace-loving and tolerant group (yes, that's another joke), it follows that some of them are simply xenophobic knee-jerkers who don't want to see brown people in their country. And others are simply concerned about illegal immigration's impact on the American economy. And yet others use the latter excuse to cover up the former.

Concern about the negative economic impact is something I can definitely relate to. In California, illegal immigration costs us billions of dollars, so it's clearly a problem that needs dealing with.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: JD50
I was making a point, one that obviously you can't refute.

Why would I bother? It's your opinion, it can be as ignorant as you want.

Once again, you resort to name calling instead of debating the topic. Why bother posting on this message board if you aren't interesting in others opinions? You realize thats what this whole board is right?

So it's not ignorant to insinuate that everyone that is against illegal immigrations is racist?

Look, I admit it, I was messing with you guys a little this morning. Of course I don't think everyone who is anti-immigration is a racist, but clearly some of them are. Given the GOP's reputation as a peace-loving and tolerant group (yes, that's another joke), it follows that some of them are simply xenophobic knee-jerkers who don't want to see brown people in their country. And others are simply concerned about illegal immigration's impact on the American economy. And yet others use the latter excuse to cover up the former.

Concern about the negative economic impact is something I can definitely relate to. In California, illegal immigration costs us billions of dollars, so it's clearly a problem that needs dealing with.

Thanks.

But I think that the majority of the people against illegal immigration are not racist.

And I completely agree with the part in bold.

 

[BoomerD]

While I admit to havine my prejudices, (some fairly strong, others not so much) I don't consider myself a racist, HOWEVER, the illegal immigration problem has to be dealt with. Will it be difficult? You betcha. Will it be costly, both for the taxpayer as well as the businesses who depend on these low-wage workers? Absolutely.
The fact that many businesses exploit these people for their willingness to work for lower wages than most of us is NO reason to permit them to be here. Have we spoiled our kids so much that they no longer are willing to work at McD's to make enough money to buy the latest video game? Sure seems like it, when I pull into/go into any fast-food joint, and instead of the traditional teen-agers working there, it's middle-age4d Mexican people...most of whom don't "habla english".
Even though it would be difficult, I've always supported rounding up ALL illegal immigrants and deporting them on the spot. Do they have to leave behind families? Maybe so, but after all, they ARE here illegally. If you get caught stealing a car, you don't get to avoid jail just because you have a family, why should this be any different.
If they want to be here, they have to return to their native country, and apply for admittance, just like anyone else. MAYBE give them a certain priority if they can prove they were here 5 years or more, or maybe not, since that may not be seen as fair to the ones who've been waiting to enter legally...
It's a difficult and complicated issue, but the "invaders" are putting a huge strain on our country's resources, as well as those of the various states where they inundate emergency rooms for medical care they never pay for, and the various welfare agencies who help support them.
FWIW, I don't care if the illegals are from Mexico, Canada, Ireland, or China...send them ALL home...

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I agree with the people saying that this game isn't really racist...but it's pretty damn stupid. You people that are strongly against illegal immigration could not possibly be going about this in a worse way. Any time there is an issue that people feel strongly about and other people feel less strongly about, there is going to be tension. But instead of dealing with our ideological differences like reasonable adults, the more popular tactic seems to be to be as "in your face" as possible, and take things to even greater extremes. Whether it's stupid "games" or suggesting this is an invasion that requires a military response complete with landmines and machine gun nests, you manage to make your position look even more extreme and silly...and you don't get any closer to convincing those of us more in the center of the issue that you guys are anything more than nutbars.

As for the racism, please stop with the "I'm so offended by you calling me racist" bullshit. Yeah, very few people have come out and explicitly tied this to race. But look at it from another perspective. Illegal immigration strikes some of us as not that big a problem, yet you people are going totally fvcking nuts over it. That kind of extreme reaction, without any kind of really obvious cause, usually comes from a dislike of some group's race or religion. Maybe there is another reason, in fact I'm sure there is, but it really isn't immediately obvious what it might be to some of us. I don't think being against illegal immigration makes you a racist, but I can certainly understand why some people might view your extreme reaction that way.

QFT

and another reason why I don't much care for the illegal debate is simply this:

There is a bigger drug problem in our society, that is illegal too right?

There is a bigger gang problem in our society, that leads to illegal behavior too right?

There are issues that no one seems to care about, yet they are just as important if not moreso than illegal immigration. But as soon as you say illegal alien you get every yahoo with a .22 calling for an immigration war.

It just rings hallow at best, xenophobic at worst.

As for the OP. No there is nothing wrong with playing a game. But whereas these college students have the luxury of "playing" illegal immigration they trivialize the horrors that others go through trying to get into this country and make a better life for themselves.

Trivializing illegal immigration is very bad taste. It shows a level of disconnect these republicans have with society.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: OrByte
Illegal immigration has about as much to do with breaking the law as with racism.

whats that you say???

QFT

how is that the truth? the word "illegal" defines the action as one in which laws are broken.

I bet you're one of those who like to use the words "undocumented alien" instead, eh?

f'n ridiculous...

case in point. yahoo with a .22

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: OrByte
Illegal immigration has about as much to do with breaking the law as with racism.

whats that you say???

QFT

how is that the truth? the word "illegal" defines the action as one in which laws are broken.

I bet you're one of those who like to use the words "undocumented alien" instead, eh?

f'n ridiculous...

case in point. yahoo with a .22

uhh, what?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Ahhh yes, young Republicans thinking outside the box. Well, at least they're in good company:

Illegal Immigration Fears Stimulate Ku Klux Klan Membership

GASTONIA, N.C. ? Fears over illegal immigration are fueling a resurgence in membership to the Ku Klux Klan in North Carolina and across the country, according to Klan officials and organizations that track hate groups.

In Gaston County near Charlotte, the imperial wizard of the Mount Holly-based chapter of the Klan says membership is growing faster than he's seen since joining in the 1960s.

"People are tired of this mess," said Virgil Griffin, 62. "The illegal immigrants are taking this country over."

Griffin recounted 1960s Klan rallies when dozens, sometimes hundreds, marched through towns such as Mount Holly, Salisbury and Wilmington.

"We were strong in the '60s," he said. "We're not that strong now. We're hoping to get there."

The group wants to increase its numbers so it can influence local and national politics. The Klan's goals include military border enforcement and ending taxpayer-funded services to illegal immigrants.

Klan members often associate with racist skinheads or neo-Nazis, and illegal immigration is a top issue for all of them, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project for the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center.

Link

This whole "KKK" is exploding due to immigration etc is a pile of crap. A fake story.

If you drill down to the underlaying data, compiled by the Souther Poverty Law center (IRC), you'll find that the KKK chapters/members actually shrank in '06.

Of course, because that's not really interesting it's left out of the story. They actually try instead to make the case that immigration is causing a rise in KKK chapters, contrary to the actual data.

Fern

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: her209
So it begs the question, how does one weed out the illegal immigrants from the populace?

What does that have to do with anything I said? It doesn't, so it doesn't beg any question. As for what I actually think we should do on illegal immigration, I think we need a more global approach than I have seen anyone else suggest. I am compiling my thoughts on this and what I consider related subjects for an upcoming post. For now, let's just say that the issues that are relevant and need to be addressed are education, our declining birth rate/abortion, and outsourcing. Addressing these issues will improve our economy, national fiscal deficits, quality of life, and the environment, as well as our problems with illegal immigration, failing social programs, and outsourcing worries (I told you it was complicated ).

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Fern
This whole "KKK" is exploding due to immigration etc is a pile of crap. A fake story.

If you drill down to the underlaying data, compiled by the Souther Poverty Law center (IRC), you'll find that the KKK chapters/members actually shrank in '06.

Of course, because that's not really interesting it's left out of the story. They actually try instead to make the case that immigration is causing a rise in KKK chapters, contrary to the actual data.

Fern

Sure thing, why don't you post a link to the data and we'll all take a look.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: OrByte
Illegal immigration has about as much to do with breaking the law as with racism.

whats that you say???

QFT

how is that the truth? the word "illegal" defines the action as one in which laws are broken.

I bet you're one of those who like to use the words "undocumented alien" instead, eh?

f'n ridiculous...

case in point. yahoo with a .22

uhh, what?

What he said is, your comment is rather stupid.

Illegal aliens are breaking the law (one law) by being in America, but it's a stretch to call them criminals because of this. Logically speaking, it's called 'begging the question'.

Your nation has an immigration problem, but the immigrants themselves aren't the problem.

 

[Termagant]

All of you enlightened internet users may be able to oppose illegal immigration in a non racist way, but for many Americans they have not decoupled opposition to illegal aliens from opposition to Mexicans. How many times have you heard "those damn Mexicans are taking over our country." I have heard this sentiment a number of times. If the immigrants were legal these WASPs would still oppose their presence. This mentality is what leads to the cries of racism.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: OrByte

and another reason why I don't much care for the illegal debate is simply this:

There is a bigger drug problem in our society, that is illegal too right?

There is a bigger gang problem in our society, that leads to illegal behavior too right?

There are issues that no one seems to care about, yet they are just as important if not moreso than illegal immigration. But as soon as you say illegal alien you get every yahoo with a .22 calling for an immigration war.

It just rings hallow at best, xenophobic at worst.

The difference is that in principle the problem with illegal immigration is easy to fix--throw them out. In contrast, we can't throw out the drug and the gang problems. Whereas I don't think drugs should be illegal, I agree that we need to deal with the problem of lawbreaking gangs. So, speaking for myself, there isn't any contradiction or hypocracy on my position on illegal immigration, at least in these regards.

As for the OP. No there is nothing wrong with playing a game. But whereas these college students have the luxury of "playing" illegal immigration they trivialize the horrors that others go through trying to get into this country and make a better life for themselves.

Trivializing illegal immigration is very bad taste. It shows a level of disconnect these republicans have with society.

What's real sad is that appologists for illegal and mass immigration trivialize all of the economic and social problems that illegal immigration and mass immigration cause and all of the damage it inflicts on the American people, especially the lower classes.

I applaud the College Republicans for opposing the establishment Republican Party and for trying to increase publicity around campus for this crucial issue. I think their contest is great. It's too bad that other college students don't understand simple economics nor the relationship between an importation of poor people and an increase in the amount of money needed (and thus taxes) for social services.

Also, it's too bad that many of the students, who would claim to support a cleaner environment, are too boneheaded to recognize the relationship between population increase (or rather a popluation explosion in the case of the United States) and environmental degradation.