Let us not forget that America is all about capitalism.

[Mai72]

Look at what America has become over the years. We've gone from the American dream to a country where many people feel like they are entitled to handouts. This goes for people on welfare to government workers. That's not what we are about. America is a capitalistic country first and foremost. When most people immigrate to America the first thing that's on their mind are the endless possibilities to make money. Even to become wealthy. Yet, many native born Americans have forgotten this. You see all this hate. Towards Trump and the billionaires who are going to populate Trump's cabinet. I even see it locally via envy, hate and jealousy.

My mom was an immigrant from France. She was an entrapuner. Her family were small business owners. Very successful as a matter of fact. So, I got to see the hard work that she and my dad put forth day in and day out. Everyday. 12-16 hour days. Zero education. Just hard work.

Although Trump was born with a gold spoon I still admire the guy because he took chances. He was a business owner first. He understands that if we don't curb spending America is going to have huge financial issues. Our government does not conduct itself like a business but it should. I remember a few years ago when I was helping my local elementary school install new computers. I asked the school's tec guy why the new computers. They had perfectly fine computers that were only 1 year old. He told me that if they don't spend the money their budget will shrink next year. All because they didn't spend all of the allotted amount. What business operates like this? None! It wouldn't be feasible to spend without a sound budget. Yet, this is what Obama has done for over 8 years. Spend, spend and spend some more. If I had one major criticism on Obama this would be it. He knew nothing about finances and economics.

Now we have Trump and many people are upset. And, if they are a government employees they should be wary. He has vowed to dismantle many of the departments. They are a waste of our tax payer dollars. Don't you want less taxes? I know I do. I'd like to see America run like a business. I consider this to be an experiment. We've never had a business man as POTUS before. One who has ZERO ties to special interest. That's refreshing.

I've been around parts of the world and no one holds a candle to America. No one! If you're willing to work hard and do whatever is necessary to succeed you can become wealthy. We are not a welfare country. Money first should be on everyone's mind.

 

[fskimospy]

1. We have definitely had a businessman as a president before. Herbert Hoover, for example.

2. Obama very clearly has a far greater understanding of finance and economics than Trump has. If you go look at Trump's statements on monetary policy and international trade they are not just wrong, they are incoherent. The guy has no idea what he's talking about and he's totally in over his head.

3. If your problem with Obama was excessive spending you realize Trump has pledged to dramatically increase spending, right?

4. No ties to special interests? Trump himself is a special interest.

5. If you think the government should be run like a business you should first ask yourself what the goal of government is vs the goal of business. Once you figure that out you will understand why the government being run like a business is a terrible idea.

 

[Jaskalas]

Look at what America has become over the years. We've gone from the American dream to a country where many people feel like they are entitled to handouts. This goes for people on welfare to government workers. That's not what we are about. America is a capitalistic country first and foremost.

And what is the foremost goal Capitalism has for labor? To devalue it.
I say again, to eliminate or reduce your pay check.

That is why we automate where possible, or use slave labor from Asia. Regardless of the cost of living, labor is just an anchor to be cast off wherever possible. You assail welfare, do you think American workers have too much money today? How much poorer do you think they should be?

I respect where Capitalism has brought us, but it reaches a point of efficiency where someone has to step in and prevent slave labor.
That is why I look towards America of the past, where taxes reached far greater heights and income inequality was far less.
I would move to use those taxes as a safety net to supplement, not replace Capitalism. You know the two are not mutually exclusive, right?
I intend for a bottom floor which no citizen would fall under. To protect their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
For I do not believe personal independence can be achieved for people who lack a certain economic liquidity.

I envision a Capitalistic system with a safety net, where no one is left behind. For we humans need more dignity than cogs in a machine.

 

[takiat]

Obama with all his successes in business in his life. He knows nothing about economics and finance.... i guess your giving him job creation and finance credit for all the government jobs he has created. And the OP is right. Don't spend the budgeted money and you lose it. It's been like that for at least 30 years i remember. It's not just Obama, it's most of them. Maybe fski is a government worker???

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[takiat]

Is been crony capitalism or redistribution. Nothing else. About time everyone is going to have to EARN what they get, instead of sit at home playing xbox or lobbying their way to riches.. both ways are wrong. If fully capable people have no interest in earning, they can starve for all i care.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[IronWing]

^^ If a government agency fails to spend the money Congress appropriates to the agency, the agency is breaking the law.

 

[Mai72]

1. We have definitely had a businessman as a president before. Herbert Hoover, for example.

2. Obama very clearly has a far greater understanding of finance and economics than Trump has. If you go look at Trump's statements on monetary policy and international trade they are not just wrong, they are incoherent. The guy has no idea what he's talking about and he's totally in over his head.

3. If your problem with Obama was excessive spending you realize Trump has pledged to dramatically increase spending, right?

4. No ties to special interests? Trump himself is a special interest.

5. If you think the government should be run like a business you should first ask yourself what the goal of government is vs the goal of business. Once you figure that out you will understand why the government being run like a business is a terrible idea.

1) Forgot about Hoover.

2) Obama is clearly smarter than Trump. But, let's look at it this way. Many people who became millionaires and billionaires in our great country weren't the smartest. Yet, they've reached more greater financial success and securiry than most people with PHD's and MBAs. Are you going to talk finances with a highschool dropout who became a multimillionaire or the waiter has a PHD or MBA and can't rub two coins together. Obama has never run a business in his life. Trump has run multiple hugely successful domestic and international businesses. It's Iike taking a business class and the professor spouts off theories on economics, yet he has never run a business. I'd rather take classes from a high school dropout who knows what it takes to be successful.

3) Over spending is an issue for me. But, it depends on where the money is going. If the money is going to social programs that keep people in poverty than I have a problem. And, this is exactly what has been going on with the Obama administration. Welfare is a big issue that needs to be addressed. If Trump is going to spend money but it's to bring in more American jobs, or to revitalize our infrastructure I don't see an issue with that. Especially if it pays off in the future.

4) Trump is going to look to profit. I agree with you on this and it shouldn't happen. I guess that it's inevitable since he's a business man. But, hasn't Obama done the same? They all do it to an extent. Hopefully Trump will surprise us and put his self interest to the side.

5) The goal of business is profit. Let's not kid ourselves. Money matters. We've been deluded into thinking that money doesn't matter. We live on a financial planet. Much of the pain many Americans are facing is because they don't make enough money. The goal of government is to establish justice, protect its citizens and promote the general welfare of its people. Why can't we have both?

It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

 

[Mai72]

And what is the foremost goal Capitalism has for labor? To devalue it.
I say again, to eliminate or reduce your pay check.

That is why we automate where possible, or use slave labor from Asia. Regardless of the cost of living, labor is just an anchor to be cast off wherever possible. You assail welfare, do you think American workers have too much money today? How much poorer do you think they should be?

I respect where Capitalism has brought us, but it reaches a point of efficiency where someone has to step in and prevent slave labor.
That is why I look towards America of the past, where taxes reached far greater heights and income inequality was far less.
I would move to use those taxes as a safety net to supplement, not replace Capitalism. You know the two are not mutually exclusive, right?
I intend for a bottom floor which no citizen would fall under. To protect their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
For I do not believe personal independence can be achieved for people who lack a certain economic liquidity.

I envision a Capitalistic system with a safety net, where no one is left behind. For we humans need more dignity than cogs in a machine.

Safety nets?

I'd like to see a safety net for the people who desperately need it. That would be people who have fallen on hard times. Someone who has lost their job for an extended period of time. Or, the mentally disabled. It should never be used by someone who is perfectly capable of work. I live in an area where the system is greatly abused. They make just enough to keep themselves in poverty, so they can get health benefits, rent and food all for free. Or, at least greatly reduced.

Being in business for yourself means you're going to be taking huge risks. There are no safety nets in real life. My parents went bankrupt not once but twice. The average millionaire goes bankrupt at least once on their path to wealth. There was no safety net in place. They picked themselves up by their bootstraps and went back to work.

We can only hope that Trump gets it right.

 

[greatnoob]

You say Obama knows nothing about economics but you've made it clear you know even less about it by voting for Trump.

Is "welfare" one of the words in your bad-words list? I'm guessing it's right up there with "communism."

Instead of assuming welfare = bad, why don't you go ahead and explain why you look at it in a negative light? As a to-be economist I'd love to know.

 

[greatnoob]

I'd like to see a safety net for the people who desperately need it. That would be people who have fallen on hard times. Someone who has lost their job for an extended period of time.

These are all interventionist policies. If you wanted a 'safety net' then you should not have voted for a Republican - they want markets to reach equilibrium autonomously which would come at the risk of high unemployment rates in the short term and lower wages in the long run.

Also interesting you're against welfare despite being accepting of unemployment benefits...

 

[fskimospy]

1) Forgot about Hoover.

2) Obama is clearly smarter than Trump. But, let's look at it this way. Many people who became millionaires and billionaires in our great country weren't the smartest. Yet, they've reached more greater financial success and securiry than most people with PHD's and MBAs. Are you going to talk finances with a highschool dropout who became a multimillionaire or the waiter has a PHD or MBA and can't rub two coins together. Obama has never run a business in his life. Trump has run multiple hugely successful domestic and international businesses. It's Iike taking a business class and the professor spouts off theories on economics, yet he has never run a business. I'd rather take classes from a high school dropout who knows what it takes to be successful.

But running an economy and running a business are two entirely different things that require totally different skills. Even assuming Trump is a good businessman, which is debatable, I don't see why that business skill would carry over. Business is about making profit, running an economy is about building structures, incentives, and institutions.

On top all that I think you could make a solid argument that Obama has achieved far greater financial success than Trump has. Obama came from nothing and is now worth millions. Trump came from millions and while he is now likely a billionaire he looks to have achieved basically market level returns despite a huge head start and deep family connections from his father. Which one do you think is the better businessman?

3) Over spending is an issue for me. But, it depends on where the money is going. If the money is going to social programs that keep people in poverty than I have a problem. And, this is exactly what has been going on with the Obama administration. Welfare is a big issue that needs to be addressed. If Trump is going to spend money but it's to bring in more American jobs, or to revitalize our infrastructure I don't see an issue with that. Especially if it pays off in the future.

With the exception of the ACA Obama has not really changed any policy in relation to social welfare spending. The sort of means tested welfare spending you're talking about represents a vanishingly small portion of the federal budget. Sadly, it looks like the infrastructure 'spending' Trump is proposing is actually an attempt to privatize our roads, bridges, etc.

4) Trump is going to look to profit. I agree with you on this and it shouldn't happen. I guess that it's inevitable since he's a business man. But, hasn't Obama done the same? They all do it to an extent. Hopefully Trump will surprise us and put his self interest to the side.

No, I'm not aware of any president in all of US history who came anywhere close to the level of corruption that Trump seems to be publicly acknowledging he will engage in. I don't think 'don't they all do it?' even remotely applies because the answer is largely 'no, they don't all do it, certainly not like this.' We are talking about corruption for the ages.

5) The goal of business is profit. Let's not kid ourselves. Money matters. We've been deluded into thinking that money doesn't matter. We live on a financial planet. Much of the pain many Americans are facing is because they don't make enough money. The goal of government is to establish justice, protect its citizens and promote the general welfare of its people. Why can't we have both?

It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that money doesn't matter and that thinking certainly hasn't guided our policy. The goals of promoting general welfare, justice, and a well functioning economy often run contrary to profit maximization for any given entity. That's why you can't run a government like a business.

 

[desura]

Yeah, while I voted for Obama, i have always had a lingering doubt about him. Like, business isn't just about the smart guys with numbers, it is also about cheerleading and that sort. Obama is not really a natural at cheerleading and creating an animal spirits atmosphere. He is more bookish, and his persona is gloomier.

Big part of me thought Romney in 2012 would have been a great president for that reason. Now we have Trump who does understand this cheerleading thing, so let's see.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

These are all interventionist policies. If you wanted a 'safety net' then you should not have voted for a Republican - they want markets to reach equilibrium autonomously which would come at the risk of high unemployment rates in the short term and lower wages in the long run.

Also interesting you're against welfare despite being accepting of unemployment benefits...

You mean unemployment insurance?

 

[agent00f]

1) Forgot about Hoover.

2) Obama is clearly smarter than Trump. But, let's look at it this way. Many people who became millionaires and billionaires in our great country weren't the smartest. Yet, they've reached more greater financial success and securiry than most people with PHD's and MBAs. Are you going to talk finances with a highschool dropout who became a multimillionaire or the waiter has a PHD or MBA and can't rub two coins together. Obama has never run a business in his life. Trump has run multiple hugely successful domestic and international businesses. It's Iike taking a business class and the professor spouts off theories on economics, yet he has never run a business. I'd rather take classes from a high school dropout who knows what it takes to be successful.

3) Over spending is an issue for me. But, it depends on where the money is going. If the money is going to social programs that keep people in poverty than I have a problem. And, this is exactly what has been going on with the Obama administration. Welfare is a big issue that needs to be addressed. If Trump is going to spend money but it's to bring in more American jobs, or to revitalize our infrastructure I don't see an issue with that. Especially if it pays off in the future.

4) Trump is going to look to profit. I agree with you on this and it shouldn't happen. I guess that it's inevitable since he's a business man. But, hasn't Obama done the same? They all do it to an extent. Hopefully Trump will surprise us and put his self interest to the side.

5) The goal of business is profit. Let's not kid ourselves. Money matters. We've been deluded into thinking that money doesn't matter. We live on a financial planet. Much of the pain many Americans are facing is because they don't make enough money. The goal of government is to establish justice, protect its citizens and promote the general welfare of its people. Why can't we have both?

It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

OP is great example of why basic classes in economics are beneficial to understanding economic problems. Unfortunately, school isn't for everyone, particularly people who can't understand simple explanations. It's hard to imagine someone like this ever grasping survivorship bias, even if they're certain they have complex policy decisions on lockdown.

In this simple case, if giving someone a few hundred bucks a month prevents what one without economic opportunities might do to procure the same, it seems money reasonably well spent. Money not well spent is paying someone many thousands a month to make a bomb to drop on some hapless brownie half the world away. Not real hard to figure out which one OP types is talking about.

 

[Mai72]

You say Obama knows nothing about economics but you've made it clear you know even less about it by voting for Trump.

Is "welfare" one of the words in your bad-words list? I'm guessing it's right up there with "communism."

Instead of assuming welfare = bad, why don't you go ahead and explain why you look at it in a negative light? As a to-be economist I'd love to know.

I actually voted for Hillary. When I vote for POTUS I'll go either left or right. I'm actually a fiscally conservative Democrat. Yea, I know that there aren't too many of those left.

It might sound like I'm against welfare but I'm not, unless it's being abused. I know it's all anecdotal but I've seen too many people who were capable of work abuse the system. IMO, it's a huge issue with many people who are on welfare for too many years. Why shouldn't they be? The system is designed for that. Why should anyone work for $10 an hour when the government offers handouts. Again. If you need it I have no issues.

Let me ask you this. If Trump comes out and states that to collect public assistance you must at least perform 20 community hours per week. That could be fixing our infrastructure. Anything really. As long as the person is physically capable.

 

[Jaskalas]

About time everyone is going to have to EARN what they get

Foxconn workers EARN what they get... which is food and little else. Does being their employee sound ideal to you?
I ask because any public company is practically mandated by law to do everything they can to get you there.
Your earning is antithetical to their profits. It's is only time that separates your current paycheck from elimination or reduction.

There was no safety net in place. They picked themselves up by their bootstraps and went back to work.

The bootstrap is a lie.

Let me try to explain. Capitalism is a journey towards efficiency. Once something more efficient has been developed, you are NOT going back in time to "how things were". Those bootstraps you speak of are HISTORY. Gone, eliminated. They were the small businesses of America that never had foreign investment or a board of directors. They were mom and pop stores who knew they needed to support their communities and offered jobs at prices people could live on. A man could pump gas and feed his family.

Those conditions are lost to time, today it's Multinationals and Wall Street elites. If not your employer themselves then they apply competition and pressure against your employer. If your job cannot, today, be automated or shipped overseas... then you'll earn the lowest buck humanly possible. Which is far less than that man pumping gas in times of yore. Wage suppression is real, and since the 1970s each working class generation has less wealth per hour worked than the one before it. As Capitalism strives towards that golden goose of dropping labor entirely.

And make no mistake. You WILL be downsized.
The only question is if you want a country strong and dynamic enough to see both you and its own economy through the changes.
Even your fabled bootstraps have a safety net these days... Foxconn had them installed to keep their cattle workers alive.

 

[theeedude]

We in Silicon Valley are just going to keep automating stuff at an accelerating pace, and see how the small government bullshit holds up when there aren't jobs for most people. Time to focus on forcing functions, and technology is a big one.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Maybe just maybe we should allow Trump to take office and actually doing something instead of worrying about what may or may not happen.

 

[theeedude]

I actually voted for Hillary. When I vote for POTUS I'll go either left or right. I'm actually a fiscally conservative Democrat. Yea, I know that there aren't too many of those left.

It might sound like I'm against welfare but I'm not, unless it's being abused. I know it's all anecdotal but I've seen too many people who were capable of work abuse the system. IMO, it's a huge issue with many people who are on welfare for too many years. Why shouldn't they be? The system is designed for that. Why should anyone work for $10 an hour when the government offers handouts. Again. If you need it I have no issues.

Let me ask you this. If Trump comes out and states that to collect public assistance you must at least perform 20 community hours per week. That could be fixing our infrastructure. Anything really. As long as the person is physically capable.

If welfare recipients take all these jobs to keep getting handouts, what's Trump Trash going to do? Who is going to hire someone for market wage if welfare recipients are doing it for a handout? You didn't really think it through, did you? It just sounded good?

 

[norseamd]

And what is the foremost goal Capitalism has for labor? To devalue it.
I say again, to eliminate or reduce your pay check.

That is why we automate where possible, or use slave labor from Asia. Regardless of the cost of living, labor is just an anchor to be cast off wherever possible. You assail welfare, do you think American workers have too much money today? How much poorer do you think they should be?

I respect where Capitalism has brought us, but it reaches a point of efficiency where someone has to step in and prevent slave labor.
That is why I look towards America of the past, where taxes reached far greater heights and income inequality was far less.
I would move to use those taxes as a safety net to supplement, not replace Capitalism. You know the two are not mutually exclusive, right?
I intend for a bottom floor which no citizen would fall under. To protect their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
For I do not believe personal independence can be achieved for people who lack a certain economic liquidity.

I envision a Capitalistic system with a safety net, where no one is left behind. For we humans need more dignity than cogs in a machine.

Interesting to have a conservative not proselytize capitalism, but if one really thinks about it, its something that is perfectly reasonable with conservatism.

Do you know the difference between capitalism and liberalism, and what basic rights and ideals of America might be attributable to which?

 

[Genx87]

Foxconn workers EARN what they get... which is food and little else. Does being their employee sound ideal to you?
I ask because any public company is practically mandated by law to do everything they can to get you there.
Your earning is antithetical to their profits. It's is only time that separates your current paycheck from elimination or reduction.



The bootstrap is a lie.

Let me try to explain. Capitalism is a journey towards efficiency. Once something more efficient has been developed, you are NOT going back in time to "how things were". Those bootstraps you speak of are HISTORY. Gone, eliminated. They were the small businesses of America that never had foreign investment or a board of directors. They were mom and pop stores who knew they needed to support their communities and offered jobs at prices people could live on. A man could pump gas and feed his family.

Those conditions are lost to time, today it's Multinationals and Wall Street elites. If not your employer themselves then they apply competition and pressure against your employer. If your job cannot, today, be automated or shipped overseas... then you'll earn the lowest buck humanly possible. Which is far less than that man pumping gas in times of yore. Wage suppression is real, and since the 1970s each working class generation has less wealth per hour worked than the one before it. As Capitalism strives towards that golden goose of dropping labor entirely.

And make no mistake. You WILL be downsized.
The only question is if you want a country strong and dynamic enough to see both you and its own economy through the changes.
Even your fabled bootstraps have a safety net these days... Foxconn had them installed to keep their cattle workers alive.

So what you are saying is after Murrica got theirs screw the rest of the world? What you are arguing is for a protectionist racket for labor. You talk about concern for people unless they are outside our border. Like the US lives in a vacuum where cutting off hundreds of millions of people from any meaningful wage will not affect us.

I'm sure the employees at foxconn are happy to have you on their side beating the drums to have their jobs eliminated because they dont live upto your United States level of expected labor. They cant wait to get put out on the streets because your proposed policy.

That said I find it interesting when supposed free market conservatives lose their appetite for free market economics when it comes to labor and illicit drugs

 

[WHAMPOM]

Look at what America has become over the years. We've gone from the American dream to a country where many people feel like they are entitled to handouts. This goes for people on welfare to government workers. That's not what we are about. America is a capitalistic country first and foremost. When most people immigrate to America the first thing that's on their mind are the endless possibilities to make money. Even to become wealthy. Yet, many native born Americans have forgotten this. You see all this hate. Towards Trump and the billionaires who are going to populate Trump's cabinet. I even see it locally via envy, hate and jealousy.

My mom was an immigrant from France. She was an entrapuner. Her family were small business owners. Very successful as a matter of fact. So, I got to see the hard work that she and my dad put forth day in and day out. Everyday. 12-16 hour days. Zero education. Just hard work.

Although Trump was born with a gold spoon I still admire the guy because he took chances. He was a business owner first. He understands that if we don't curb spending America is going to have huge financial issues. Our government does not conduct itself like a business but it should. I remember a few years ago when I was helping my local elementary school install new computers. I asked the school's tec guy why the new computers. They had perfectly fine computers that were only 1 year old. He told me that if they don't spend the money their budget will shrink next year. All because they didn't spend all of the allotted amount. What business operates like this? None! It wouldn't be feasible to spend without a sound budget. Yet, this is what Obama has done for over 8 years. Spend, spend and spend some more. If I had one major criticism on Obama this would be it. He knew nothing about finances and economics.

Now we have Trump and many people are upset. And, if they are a government employees they should be wary. He has vowed to dismantle many of the departments. They are a waste of our tax payer dollars. Don't you want less taxes? I know I do. I'd like to see America run like a business. I consider this to be an experiment. We've never had a business man as POTUS before. One who has ZERO ties to special interest. That's refreshing.

I've been around parts of the world and no one holds a candle to America. No one! If you're willing to work hard and do whatever is necessary to succeed you can become wealthy. We are not a welfare country. Money first should be on everyone's mind.

All I get from your post is a confusion between Obama as President and bureaucracy.

 

[fskimospy]

I actually voted for Hillary. When I vote for POTUS I'll go either left or right. I'm actually a fiscally conservative Democrat. Yea, I know that there aren't too many of those left.

It might sound like I'm against welfare but I'm not, unless it's being abused. I know it's all anecdotal but I've seen too many people who were capable of work abuse the system. IMO, it's a huge issue with many people who are on welfare for too many years. Why shouldn't they be? The system is designed for that. Why should anyone work for $10 an hour when the government offers handouts. Again. If you need it I have no issues.

Let me ask you this. If Trump comes out and states that to collect public assistance you must at least perform 20 community hours per week. That could be fixing our infrastructure. Anything really. As long as the person is physically capable.

Most people on public assistance have small children. Who is going to watch them?

 

[agent00f]

Most people on public assistance have small children. Who is going to watch them?

Some welfare queens living in run down projects are the Real problem, not half the federal budget wasted on putting defenseless brownies in their place.

 

[Mai72]

If welfare recipients take all these jobs to keep getting handouts, what's Trump Trash going to do? Who is going to hire someone for market wage if welfare recipients are doing it for a handout? You didn't really think it through, did you? It just sounded good?

Well that is the issue. We have more people than we do jobs. That's going to be a pressing issue unless something can be done. We have more people living longer and many aren't retiring. It's just too damn expensive.

So, what's the solution? In the past we had world wars and diseases that brought down the population to a manageable level. After WW2 many of our young men were dead. As morbid as this might sound, it created a ton of opportunity for many people who were alive and physically capable of work. Today? You'll be competing with hundreds of people who are very capable of doing that same job.

This is why I like the idea of being a small business owner. Today, it's more realistic than ever to go into business for yourself. We have the Internet. I've taught ESL online to students from South Korea and was getting paid quite well. When I was in Thailand I met entrapuners who were killing it on Amazon. IMO, you need to think outside the box today because our world is rapidly changing. You either keep changing or else you'll get left behind. Many Americans have been left behind.