let the bailouts continue!

[waggy]

http://www.latimes.com/busines...09mar27,0,472402.story


The company has applied for $400 million in government loans, which it says it needs to get the plant off the ground and the Model S fully developed. But because the competitive federal programs favor projects situated on previously used industrial sites (so-called brownfields) rather than new construction, Musk said it would be in the company's best interest to find such a location.

"We did a review, and we just don't have a 500,000-square-foot empty building with 24-foot ceilings," said Reed, pointing out that Southern California, with its glut of abandoned aircraft factories, is rife with such spaces

/sniped it because its along (but good) article.



so they want a loan. ugh not sure its a good idea. sure the car (seems to) is nice. but a avarage cost of $60k?not sure thats the best idea for a loan.

IF they get it the odds they are going to have to pay it back?

 

[sdifox]

What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?




though the car seesm great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

 

[yhelothar]

gas is cheap now, they're screwed

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

Well, it's simple! We just take all those fossil fuels we're burning in the cars and burn them in the power plants instead! Problem solved! :disgust:

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

good questions.

300 miles would be great for my normal driving. of course when i go see my parents (600 mile drive) it would be useless.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

good questions.

300 miles would be great for my normal driving. of course when i go see my parents (600 mile drive) it would be useless.

I imagine they can setup charge stations, similar to gas stations. Maybe trickle charge capacitors coupled with solar panels as reserve?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

good questions.

300 miles would be great for my normal driving. of course when i go see my parents (600 mile drive) it would be useless.

I imagine they can setup charge stations, similar to gas stations. Maybe trickle charge capacitors coupled with solar panels as reserve?

sure. but how fast is the charge at the stations? how much is it going to cost?

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)


it won't have solar panels. it would ruin the looks and reduce sales.

 

[LTC8K6]

Is that 300 miles with 5 adults in it?

Won't someone think of the already overburdened electrical grid?

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante

Well, it's simple! We just take all those fossil fuels we're burning in the cars and burn them in the power plants instead! Problem solved! :disgust:

You would yield much better efficiency with power plant + grid + transmission loss than gasoline transportation network + ICE. I do not wish to debate that since there is already a few threads on it.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Is that 300 miles with 5 adults in it?

Won't someone think of the already overburdened electrical grid?

The grid has been under invested for a long time, it doesn't really generate income for the companies so it gets neglected. I don't think grid management should be in the hand of private companies.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: waggy
sure. but how fast is the charge at the stations? how much is it going to cost?

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)


it won't have solar panels. it would ruin the looks and reduce sales.

I see commuters as the main target of plug in electric. The Volt model would be more suitable for mid-long range deployment.

It would be too expensive to setup battery swap stations a la gas station. And until such time we can figure out an energy efficient Hydrogen extraction, that bird ain't flying. Maybe PBR?

 

[LTC8K6]

The grid needs to be readied first, if the plan is to have a lot more electric cars and plug in hybrids.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy
sure. but how fast is the charge at the stations? how much is it going to cost?

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)


it won't have solar panels. it would ruin the looks and reduce sales.

I see commuters as the main target of plug in electric. The Volt model would be more suitable for mid-long range deployment.

It would be too expensive to setup battery swap stations a la gas station. And until such time we can figure out an energy efficient Hydrogen extraction, that bird ain't flying. Maybe micro-nuke?

battery swap would be good. but right now the battery systems are a part of the body and not easy to swap. that would have to change.

i seem to remember reading abotu hydrogen. seemed like that might be the way to go. but seems to have fizzled out.

micro-nuke? while i would have no trouble driving it (if they could make it safe) many wouldnt. not to mention idiots would ban it in areas. and what about the waste?

to many have a fear of nuke power as it is.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: waggy
battery swap would be good. but right now the battery systems are a part of the body and not easy to swap. that would have to change.

i seem to remember reading abotu hydrogen. seemed like that might be the way to go. but seems to have fizzled out.

micro-nuke? while i would have no trouble driving it (if they could make it safe) many wouldnt. not to mention idiots would ban it in areas. and what about the waste?

to many have a fear of nuke power as it is.

Not micro nuke on cars, rather nuke to break water into hydrogen and oxygen.

Standardising battery pack would dictate uniform shape/mechanism for them. You jack up, un-couple the pack, plug in fresh pack. Should not take more than 10 min. Cost is the main issue and you still have to transport the delapidated cell packs to somewhere later.

To go to that model, essentially you don't buy battery pack, rather lease them. And pricing for pack lease would have to depend on yield of said pack, so it would involve some charge back.

It is not really all that viable unless you are in a country with nationalised energy.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: waggy

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)

Try 3.5 hours for a full charge. These would be great commuter / daily drivers because of the $ savings, but if you're paying $60k for this, saving money wasn't your main priority. Until that replenish process improves, these are gimmicky like Segways. Except you can still look cool with a Tesla. 😉

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy
battery swap would be good. but right now the battery systems are a part of the body and not easy to swap. that would have to change.

i seem to remember reading abotu hydrogen. seemed like that might be the way to go. but seems to have fizzled out.

micro-nuke? while i would have no trouble driving it (if they could make it safe) many wouldnt. not to mention idiots would ban it in areas. and what about the waste?

to many have a fear of nuke power as it is.

Not micro nuke on cars, rather nuke to break water into hydrogen and oxygen.

Standardising battery pack would dictate uniform shape/mechanism for them. You jack up, un-couple the pack, plug in fresh pack. Should not take more than 10 min. Cost is the main issue and you still have to transport the delapidated cell packs to somewhere later.

To go to that model, essentially you don't buy battery pack, rather lease them. And pricing for pack lease would have to depend on yield of said pack, so it would involve some charge back.

It is not really all that viable unless you are in a country with nationalised energy.

sure they can stadardise the battery. but until they make it small enough to replace easy its not going to happen.

right now the battery's are so big they are built into the frame. they were showing some and they are in big T shapes to fit the frame. i don't see how they can just replace it easy.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: waggy

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)

Try 3.5 hours for a full charge.

3.5? fuck that then.


i swear they were saying they could charge it in 45 minutes.

 

[Aikouka]

You ought to watch the Top Gear "review" of the Tesla Roadster 😛.

Originally posted by: sdifox
To go to that model, essentially you don't buy battery pack, rather lease them. And pricing for pack lease would have to depend on yield of said pack, so it would involve some charge back.

Or you could simply use the same system that car parts follow today: core charge.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: waggy

sure they can stadardise the battery. but until they make it small enough to replace easy its not going to happen.

right now the battery's are so big they are built into the frame. they were showing some and they are in big T shapes to fit the frame. i don't see how they can just replace it easy.

Just a design issue, nothing stops you from mandating 4 huge bolts goind across the underbody to secure the battery pack. Have x standard sizes,drive onto platform, machine adjust to size, lift plate, unscrew battery pack, shift it backwards to disengage the actual hooks that hold the pack in place, drop pack, roll in new pack, reverse process.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You ought to watch the Top Gear "review" of the Tesla Roadster 😛.

Originally posted by: sdifox
To go to that model, essentially you don't buy battery pack, rather lease them. And pricing for pack lease would have to depend on yield of said pack, so it would involve some charge back.

Or you could simply use the same system that car parts follow today: core charge.

Top Gear's review of the Tesla was a sham. They fabricated a lot of things on that show to emphasize their views even if they were untruths. Google it if you want.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
You ought to watch the Top Gear "review" of the Tesla Roadster 😛.

Originally posted by: sdifox
To go to that model, essentially you don't buy battery pack, rather lease them. And pricing for pack lease would have to depend on yield of said pack, so it would involve some charge back.

Or you could simply use the same system that car parts follow today: core charge.

Err, that would be really expensive and not reflective of the situation, you are not swapping a useless battery for a new one, you are leasing the use of a charged battery. It really depends on how well the batteries hold up. If after 10 charge the capacitance drops from 1000amph to say 900amph, I would not want to pay for 1000amph.

 

[Fritzo]

I would be in support of this. They're actually using tech in their cars that we could use for the next generation.

 

[Martin]

The government put in a program in place to try and kickstart a new industry. If they meet the criteria, why shouldn't they get the loans?