let the bailouts continue!

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: waggy

sure. but how fast is the charge at the stations? how much is it going to cost?

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)


it won't have solar panels. it would ruin the looks and reduce sales.

45 minutes isn't bad at all.

300 miles at 60 miles an hour is 5 hours. Even going 80 miles an hour it's almost 4 hours.

Wake up early, hit the road, stop for breakfast and charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for lunch, charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for dinner, charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for the night, charge.

It's not as convenient but it's not terrible. And a fast charge option would probably be available in a few years.


edit: 3.5 hours is still totally fine for a daily driver but it won't fly for long trips of course.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: waggy

sure. but how fast is the charge at the stations? how much is it going to cost?

it better have a fast charge. i read where it would be fully charge in 45 minutes. thats to slow. people arent going to go on long trips and have to stop waste 45 minutes on a charge every 300 miles (actualy less)


it won't have solar panels. it would ruin the looks and reduce sales.

45 minutes isn't bad at all.

300 miles at 60 miles an hour is 5 hours. Even going 80 miles an hour it's almost 4 hours.

Wake up early, hit the road, stop for breakfast and charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for lunch, charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for dinner, charge.

Drive 4 hours, stop for the night, charge.

It's not as convenient but it's not terrible. And a fast charge option would probably be available in a few years.

yeah seems like a whole lot of wasted time. when im driving that far i sure in the hell don't want to waste 45 minutes every few hours to "charge" a battery. i will stick with my gas powered vehicle.

 

[polarmystery]

If they perfect this tech, I'd see it as feasible:

Text

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Martin
The government put in a program in place to try and kickstart a new industry. If they meet the criteria, why shouldn't they get the loans?

i agree. Long as its a loan and actually paid back. trouble is with how the goverment has been lately i don't see that happening.


i wonder what would happen if they perfected the tech. how much it would cost people and the negitive impact from it.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: polarmystery
If they perfect this tech, I'd see it as feasible:

Text

Anything that involves a lot of amperage flowing in a short period of time through a detachable plug sounds very scary to me.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: zoiks
Top Gear's review of the Tesla was a sham. They fabricated a lot of things on that show to emphasize their views even if they were untruths. Google it if you want.

I saw the response from Tesla and I'm not completely convinced that their car isn't a piece of rubbish. Their only viable complaint was, "they didn't use the 'super awesome tesla fast charger' so that's why it took so long to charge!" If I remember correctly, they had no comments regarding the fact that both cars had mechanical/electrical issues.

Originally posted by: sdifox
Err, that would be really expensive and not reflective of the situation, you are not swapping a useless battery for a new one, you are leasing the use of a charged battery. It really depends on how well the batteries hold up. If after 10 charge the capacitance drops from 1000amph to say 900amph, I would not want to pay for 1000amph.

You don't get charged the fee if you bring it in when you get a new one. But I don't know why you would want to talk about bringing batteries in anyway... those things are rather weighty. It'd be more like a service where you have to bring your car in and have them change it rather than being more like the battery at the front end of your car .

The real solution is to essentially wait for the LiON tech to drop in price or try to find a better solution for holding energy. Personally, I think Hydrogen cars are a much better solution. The only negative aspects you have are the fact that you'd need a whole new fuel infrastructure to ensure hydrogen would be available from over 90% of the gas stations. Electric has the problem where 45 minutes+ is simply too long to recharge a car when I can refill my car with gasoline or hydrogen in 2-3 minutes. Also, I don't think anyone's going to appreciate people that leech off their electricity to charge their cars. I know I'd be pretty torqued if I found some yokel that kept plugging into one of my external outlets and running up my electric bill.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: Martin
The government put in a program in place to try and kickstart a new industry. If they meet the criteria, why shouldn't they get the loans?

I look at it this way... I don't trust Tesla's viability at this point and I really don't want the government wasting money in them either. I believe Tesla only has their roadster out, which as you may or may not know, had the price jacked up about $6000 to people that had pre-ordered one simply because Tesla needed more money.

 

[SunnyD]

Mr. Fusion is the answer. You'll get at least 1.2 jiggawatts.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: sdifox
What they couldn't presell enough of the model S to support the company? Say it ain't so!

who would have thought not many would want to buy a $60k car without the company even having the ability to build it?


though the car seems great. 300 miles on a charge with the ability to carry 5 adults. that would be great.

Assuming we go to the plug in model, does that mean every parking space become a toll space for the electricity? Are they taking into account the electricity needed to run such charge system?

good questions.

300 miles would be great for my normal driving. of course when i go see my parents (600 mile drive) it would be useless.

It's often better to buy a car that meets your needs the majority of the time rather than buying a car that meets your needs all of the time.

Example - I looked at buying a pickup truck to occasionally transport materials for work on/around my house. I determined that it would cost me less to rent a truck when I need one rather than buy a truck and have to drive it wherever I go.

In your case, if a vehicle with a 300 mile range saved you money, then it might be cost-effective to rent a vehicle for 600 mile trips that you make a few times a year.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: sdifox

Err, that would be really expensive and not reflective of the situation, you are not swapping a useless battery for a new one, you are leasing the use of a charged battery. It really depends on how well the batteries hold up. If after 10 charge the capacitance drops from 1000amph to say 900amph, I would not want to pay for 1000amph.

You don't get charged the fee if you bring it in when you get a new one. But I don't know why you would want to talk about bringing batteries in anyway... those things are rather weighty. It'd be more like a service where you have to bring your car in and have them change it rather than being more like the battery at the front end of your car .

The real solution is to essentially wait for the LiON tech to drop in price or try to find a better solution for holding energy. Personally, I think Hydrogen cars are a much better solution. The only negative aspects you have are the fact that you'd need a whole new fuel infrastructure to ensure hydrogen would be available from over 90% of the gas stations. Electric has the problem where 45 minutes+ is simply too long to recharge a car when I can refill my car with gasoline or hydrogen in 2-3 minutes. Also, I don't think anyone's going to appreciate people that leech off their electricity to charge their cars. I know I'd be pretty torqued if I found some yokel that kept plugging into one of my external outlets and running up my electric bill.

I meant on long trips, you could setup exchange stations. I don't think it is feasible either, just the only logical way to go past that particular hurdle. May just be cheaper to rent a longer range vehicle.

I am not sure Hydrogen will pan out. The economics just doesn't quite work.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: sdifox
I meant on long trips, you could setup exchange stations. I don't think it is feasible either, just the only logical way to go past that particular hurdle. May just be cheaper to rent a longer range vehicle.

I am not sure Hydrogen will pan out. The economics just doesn't quite work.

The way I see it, Hydrogen would work if you could get people (mostly businesses) to adopt the new fuel type. This would most likely require money from the government to help subsidize as I doubt all gas stations would see it as a worthwhile investment and not all gas stations could probably afford it. It'd probably have to require a sort of logistic approach as to how worthwhile it is to help pay for a station's integration. I know California already has gas stations with hydrogen at them as Honda is testing their hydrogen car out. They also showed it on Top Gear as well.

The thing about electric cars is that they will have to come up with a fast recharge system, which is what I assume your method was supposed to cover. Even 45 minutes for a full recharge is just too long. Are you going to call your employer "sorry, sir, I forgot to plug in my car last night, I'm going to be an hour late!" As much as it sounds silly, I guarantee it will happen to you at least once for whatever reason. If it were gasoline, you could simply stop by a station or just fill it up on the way home the day before.

To handle that, we'd need some sort of lightning fast recharge technology which would probably also require a special sort of plug ( capable of handling the large amounts of electricity needed to fill those batteries quickly ), so there would have to be a standard created to define this plug. But then you'd also have to establish these plugs at gas stations or develop a way for people to do it at home, but I doubt a standard home electrical grid could handle recharging the large car batteries in a matter of minutes.

So frankly yeah, gasoline still sounds like it's "FTW" right now.

EDIT:

Oh and I forgot to add, hydrogen fuel would probably also need to be subsidized to some extent as I'm sure it would probably cost more than gasoline for a few years while it becomes more and more adopted by the masses (more produced can eventually lead to lower prices). It would probably also require no taxes from states to help keep the price down, which means less revenue for the states. This all depends on the price in which hydrogen could be listed at, which I don't know off the top of my head, but I am assuming it isn't going to be as good as gasoline.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

The way I see it, Hydrogen would work if you could get people (mostly businesses) to adopt the new fuel type. This would most likely require money from the government to help subsidize as I doubt all gas stations would see it as a worthwhile investment and not all gas stations could probably afford it. It'd probably have to require a sort of logistic approach as to how worthwhile it is to help pay for a station's integration. I know California already has gas stations with hydrogen at them as Honda is testing their hydrogen car out. They also showed it on Top Gear as well.

The thing about electric cars is that they will have to come up with a fast recharge system, which is what I assume your method was supposed to cover. Even 45 minutes for a full recharge is just too long. Are you going to call your employer "sorry, sir, I forgot to plug in my car last night, I'm going to be an hour late!" As much as it sounds silly, I guarantee it will happen to you at least once for whatever reason. If it were gasoline, you could simply stop by a station or just fill it up on the way home the day before.

To handle that, we'd need some sort of lightning fast recharge technology which would probably also require a special sort of plug ( capable of handling the large amounts of electricity needed to fill those batteries quickly ), so there would have to be a standard created to define this plug. But then you'd also have to establish these plugs at gas stations or develop a way for people to do it at home, but I doubt a standard home electrical grid could handle recharging the large car batteries in a matter of minutes.

So frankly yeah, gasoline still sounds like it's "FTW" right now.

EDIT:

Oh and I forgot to add, hydrogen fuel would probably also need to be subsidized to some extent as I'm sure it would probably cost more than gasoline for a few years while it becomes more and more adopted by the masses (more produced can eventually lead to lower prices). It would probably also require no taxes from states to help keep the price down, which means less revenue for the states. This all depends on the price in which hydrogen could be listed at, which I don't know off the top of my head, but I am assuming it isn't going to be as good as gasoline.

Theoretically we could use the same network for gasoline to distribute Hydrogen, so I am not too worried about distribution. Generation of Hydrogen has not reached the stage where it is viable.
Gasoline is also a lot safer than Hydrogen when you add human to the mix. Proper design could eliminate most fools, but nothing is fool proof.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: sdifox
Gasoline is also a lot safer than Hydrogen when you add human to the mix. Proper design could eliminate most fools, but nothing is fool proof.

Put pictures of the Hindenburg everywhere and I think we'll be fine :laugh:.

 

[HannibalX]

Let them go to the banks for a fucking loan.

 

[oogabooga]

Originally posted by: iFX
Let them go to the banks for a fucking loan.

when our govt is handing everyone else money why would they?

 

[SonnyDaze]

Tesla needs a bailout? But they're playing in Fresno tonight! Oh wait....wrong Tesla.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: iFX
Let them go to the banks for a fucking loan.

Banks are getting their money in the same place...

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: sdifox
Gasoline is also a lot safer than Hydrogen when you add human to the mix. Proper design could eliminate most fools, but nothing is fool proof.

Put pictures of the Hindenburg everywhere and I think we'll be fine :laugh:.

We are actually dumber than that generation so it will only be worse.

 

[TruePaige]

If we as a nation really invested in a company like Tesla we could be the world leaders in electric car technology. Mass Production would bring prices down drastically and we could have a thriving export market from them.