- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
Well, this was put in the trash:
http://classicrock.about.com/od/12/a/zep_reunion.htm
Oh, and as for the money thing, Jimmy page is the #15 richest entertainer in the world, with an estimated worth of $110 MILLION Dollars, and Plant is worth around $80 Million. Don't think they need the money
http://classicrock.about.com/od/12/a/zep_reunion.htm
Oh, and as for the money thing, Jimmy page is the #15 richest entertainer in the world, with an estimated worth of $110 MILLION Dollars, and Plant is worth around $80 Million. Don't think they need the money
they must've found some more material to steal.
it's proved they stole almost everything they recorded...how much of their rake-off did they pay back to the true author musicians, virtually all of whom were impoverished black Americans?
booooo to LZ booooooooooooooo
Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin do not deserve the prestige they have been accorded.
Led Zeppelin has long had an unsavory reputation for taking music and lyrics from lesser-known artists who were the rightful owners. Consequently, royalties lined the pockets of the millionaire British musicians. Further, their American sources, often poor and black, never saw a dime from songs and musical arrangements they had written.
Royalties didn't go to the American blues artists responsible for the songs, but rather to the English musicians themselves, who falsely claimed authorship of what they stole outright and knowingly. No mention is made of the original black musicians, whom LZ knew were usually far too poor to defend their rights.
The Yardbirds, Little Games album track "Drinking Muddy Water" was a rewrite of the Muddy Waters tune "Rolling and Tumbling."
"Smile on Me" was a rewrite of American blues songs falsely credited to Paige.
The Yardbirds "'All Your Love? was stolen from black American Otis Rush.
Little Games album track, "White Summer" is credited to Paige alone, but actually is stolen from a traditional English folk song called "She Moves Through The Fair."
LZ's 'Dazed and Confused' was stolen from Jake Holmes of New York.
"Black Mountainside? is credited solely to Page, but actually is a centuries old tune.
Jeff Beck interpreted Ravel's "Bolero,? entitled "Beck's Bolero," in 1966. Now Beck's work is falsely credited only to Jimmy Page.
LZ's "You Shook Me? was stolen outright from black American Willie Dixon.
LZ's "Communication Breakdown" was stolen from white American rockabilly musician Eddie Cochran.
LZ's "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You" was stolen from Annie Briggs.
LZ's "How Many More Times" is lifted from Americans Howlin' Wolf's "How Many More Years," plus Albert King's "The Hunter" plus bits of Gary Farr and the T-Bones' "How Many More Times."
LZ's "Whole Lotta Love? was a copy of a track by The Small Faces, who had stolen it from black American Willie Dixon.
Willie Dixon's daughter, Shirley, brought it to her father's attention. As reported in the October 8, 1994's edition of The Los Angeles Times by Steve Hochman, Shirley Dixon first heard Led Zeppelin's version when she was thirteen. She played it for her father, who agreed it was his song. Willie Dixon was receiving no royalties from it. In 1985, Dixon sued Led Zeppelin for royalties to "Whole Lotta Love."
Today, Shirley Dixon heads the Blues Heaven Foundation (established by her father), which helps blues artists try to recover their royalties and rights from thieving British musicians.
LZ?s ?The Lemon Song" was stolen directly from black American Howlin' Wolf's Wolf's "Killing Floor." The quote about squeezing lemons is stolen from black American Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues."
LZ's "Bring It on Home" also was stolen from black American Willie Dixon.
LZ's drum intro to "Rock 'n Roll" was a direct lift from Little Richard's "Keep A-Knocking."
LZ's "Stairway to Heaven" lead in guitar riff is stolen from American guitarist Randy California of band Spirit.
The chord progression in "Stairway to Heaven" is stolen from the song "And She's Lonely" by the American Chocolate Watchband.
LZ's "When the Levee Breaks" is directly stolen from black American Memphis Minnie.
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" is stolen from black American Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"In My Time of Dying" is a stolen old traditional folk song now falsely attributed to Paige.
"Moby Dick" was written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault but Mine" was stolen from black American Blind Willie Johnson.
And on & on & on. There are abundant additional examples.
The bastards in LZ kept the $$ from the authors' works which they stole, and now are filthy rich, undeservedly.
So remember that when you hear "their" music, the truth is LZ raked off the $$ for work done by some starving poor old black man or woman in Mississippi. Yeah, great rock heroes, right.
Some further reading
http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html
http://www.warr.org/zep.html
it's proved they stole almost everything they recorded...how much of their rake-off did they pay back to the true author musicians, virtually all of whom were impoverished black Americans?
booooo to LZ booooooooooooooo
Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin do not deserve the prestige they have been accorded.
Led Zeppelin has long had an unsavory reputation for taking music and lyrics from lesser-known artists who were the rightful owners. Consequently, royalties lined the pockets of the millionaire British musicians. Further, their American sources, often poor and black, never saw a dime from songs and musical arrangements they had written.
Royalties didn't go to the American blues artists responsible for the songs, but rather to the English musicians themselves, who falsely claimed authorship of what they stole outright and knowingly. No mention is made of the original black musicians, whom LZ knew were usually far too poor to defend their rights.
The Yardbirds, Little Games album track "Drinking Muddy Water" was a rewrite of the Muddy Waters tune "Rolling and Tumbling."
"Smile on Me" was a rewrite of American blues songs falsely credited to Paige.
The Yardbirds "'All Your Love? was stolen from black American Otis Rush.
Little Games album track, "White Summer" is credited to Paige alone, but actually is stolen from a traditional English folk song called "She Moves Through The Fair."
LZ's 'Dazed and Confused' was stolen from Jake Holmes of New York.
"Black Mountainside? is credited solely to Page, but actually is a centuries old tune.
Jeff Beck interpreted Ravel's "Bolero,? entitled "Beck's Bolero," in 1966. Now Beck's work is falsely credited only to Jimmy Page.
LZ's "You Shook Me? was stolen outright from black American Willie Dixon.
LZ's "Communication Breakdown" was stolen from white American rockabilly musician Eddie Cochran.
LZ's "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You" was stolen from Annie Briggs.
LZ's "How Many More Times" is lifted from Americans Howlin' Wolf's "How Many More Years," plus Albert King's "The Hunter" plus bits of Gary Farr and the T-Bones' "How Many More Times."
LZ's "Whole Lotta Love? was a copy of a track by The Small Faces, who had stolen it from black American Willie Dixon.
Willie Dixon's daughter, Shirley, brought it to her father's attention. As reported in the October 8, 1994's edition of The Los Angeles Times by Steve Hochman, Shirley Dixon first heard Led Zeppelin's version when she was thirteen. She played it for her father, who agreed it was his song. Willie Dixon was receiving no royalties from it. In 1985, Dixon sued Led Zeppelin for royalties to "Whole Lotta Love."
Today, Shirley Dixon heads the Blues Heaven Foundation (established by her father), which helps blues artists try to recover their royalties and rights from thieving British musicians.
LZ?s ?The Lemon Song" was stolen directly from black American Howlin' Wolf's Wolf's "Killing Floor." The quote about squeezing lemons is stolen from black American Robert Johnson's "Traveling Riverside Blues."
LZ's "Bring It on Home" also was stolen from black American Willie Dixon.
LZ's drum intro to "Rock 'n Roll" was a direct lift from Little Richard's "Keep A-Knocking."
LZ's "Stairway to Heaven" lead in guitar riff is stolen from American guitarist Randy California of band Spirit.
The chord progression in "Stairway to Heaven" is stolen from the song "And She's Lonely" by the American Chocolate Watchband.
LZ's "When the Levee Breaks" is directly stolen from black American Memphis Minnie.
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" is stolen from black American Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"In My Time of Dying" is a stolen old traditional folk song now falsely attributed to Paige.
"Moby Dick" was written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault but Mine" was stolen from black American Blind Willie Johnson.
And on & on & on. There are abundant additional examples.
The bastards in LZ kept the $$ from the authors' works which they stole, and now are filthy rich, undeservedly.
So remember that when you hear "their" music, the truth is LZ raked off the $$ for work done by some starving poor old black man or woman in Mississippi. Yeah, great rock heroes, right.
Some further reading
http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html
http://www.warr.org/zep.html
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Fritzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: pulse8
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Fritzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Gnrslash4life
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scouzer
The world's most successful cover band.</end quote></div>
LMAO, im sure most people havent heard that yet.</end quote></div>
...and it's not really fair either. If it were for them and the Stones, most people would have never heard of the blues and folk artists that they borrowed from.</end quote></div>
I don't fault Led Zeppelin for doing covers of old blues songs. That's part of what he blues is about. I fault them for not giving credit or money to the estates and artists that they covered on their albums.</end quote></div>
That's partially incorrect. They pretty much paid everyone out by the mid-80's. They were great admirers of many blues artists and they were well compensated. In fact, Willie Dixon posted a lawsuit against the group in 1987, and the remaining members settled out of court for a rumored $2+ million. The proceeds went to musical education for children.</end quote></div>
They only paid and gave credit after they were sued. I know they were great admirers, but to say they were all compensated is crap. Robert Johnson's estate was never compensated or credited for Traveling Riverside Blues or what they used in the Lemon song.
Also, I believe Howlin' Wolf also had to sue them in order to gain credit and money.
As I said before, I don't fault them for redoing the songs I only fault them with not giving credit and payment when they should have. Doing it after being sued is too little too late.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: pulse8
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Fritzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Gnrslash4life
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scouzer
The world's most successful cover band.</end quote></div>
LMAO, im sure most people havent heard that yet.</end quote></div>
...and it's not really fair either. If it were for them and the Stones, most people would have never heard of the blues and folk artists that they borrowed from.</end quote></div>
I don't fault Led Zeppelin for doing covers of old blues songs. That's part of what he blues is about. I fault them for not giving credit or money to the estates and artists that they covered on their albums.</end quote></div>
That's partially incorrect. They pretty much paid everyone out by the mid-80's. They were great admirers of many blues artists and they were well compensated. In fact, Willie Dixon posted a lawsuit against the group in 1987, and the remaining members settled out of court for a rumored $2+ million. The proceeds went to musical education for children.</end quote></div>
They only paid and gave credit after they were sued. I know they were great admirers, but to say they were all compensated is crap. Robert Johnson's estate was never compensated or credited for Traveling Riverside Blues or what they used in the Lemon song.
Also, I believe Howlin' Wolf also had to sue them in order to gain credit and money.
As I said before, I don't fault them for redoing the songs I only fault them with not giving credit and payment when they should have. Doing it after being sued is too little too late.
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Triumph
I'd like to hear the supposed originals and make my own determination of whether or not they were outright stolen, or just "inspired by."</end quote></div>
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!" Many blues songs were public domain. Some blues artists recorded them, but they were pulled from songs that came a decade before them. Robert Johnson "stole" all of his material from local musicians around the area he grew up in.
Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
I'd like to hear the supposed originals and make my own determination of whether or not they were outright stolen, or just "inspired by."</end quote></div>
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!"
Many blues songs were public domain. Some blues artists recorded them, but they were pulled from songs that came a decade before them. Robert Johnson "stole" all of his material from local musicians around the area he grew up in.Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Triumph
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!" Many blues songs were public domain. Some blues artists recorded them, but they were pulled from songs that came a decade before them. Robert Johnson "stole" all of his material from local musicians around the area he grew up in.
Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
</end quote></div>
It appears you haven't actually heard some of these. Dazed and Confused was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The intro to Stairway to Heaven was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The ENTIRE lyrics of Babe I'm Gonna Leave You are stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The Lemon Song was stolen pretty much lock, stock, and barrel.
I think LZ were a highly talented band, but when you consider that roughly 1/4 of their entire catalog is stolen, and that they never gave ANY credit, nor paid any royalties, until they were sued, it's hard to respect them as musicians or human beings. I think they're total dirtbags.
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!"
Many blues songs were public domain. Some blues artists recorded them, but they were pulled from songs that came a decade before them. Robert Johnson "stole" all of his material from local musicians around the area he grew up in.Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
</end quote></div>
It appears you haven't actually heard some of these. Dazed and Confused was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The intro to Stairway to Heaven was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The ENTIRE lyrics of Babe I'm Gonna Leave You are stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The Lemon Song was stolen pretty much lock, stock, and barrel.
I think LZ were a highly talented band, but when you consider that roughly 1/4 of their entire catalog is stolen, and that they never gave ANY credit, nor paid any royalties, until they were sued, it's hard to respect them as musicians or human beings. I think they're total dirtbags.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
Originally posted by: DonVito
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Triumph
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!"
Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
</end quote></div>
It appears you haven't actually heard some of these. Dazed and Confused was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The intro to Stairway to Heaven was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The ENTIRE lyrics of Babe I'm Gonna Leave You are stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The Lemon Song was stolen pretty much lock, stock, and barrel.
I think LZ were a highly talented band, but when you consider that roughly 1/4 of their entire catalog is stolen, and that they never gave ANY credit, nor paid any royalties, until they were sued, it's hard to respect them as musicians or human beings. I think they're total dirtbags.
I HAVE the original recordings of the songs. Dazed and confused was just a bass run and was played in nearly every blues club in the south in the early 60's. It was originally called "I'm Confused", and the lyrics are not the same. Plant took bits and pieces from dozens of blues songs to make the lyrics for their version.
The Stairway thing has some merit to it becaues Page just saw Spirit a few weeks before writing Stairway, so the beginning portion was probably lifted from them.
Babe I'm going to leave you had been recorded by dozens of people during the 60's. It's a traditional folk song. Plant was a big Joan Baez fan and liked her version. Anne Bredon actually wrote the song, but you never hear of Anne Bredon. Anyone that recorded the song took credit for it- there were no royalty fights in the 50's and 60's.
What people are trying to do is place todays "I gotta get my piece of the pie" values on the simpler times 40-50 years ago, and it doesn't work.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
Originally posted by: Fritzo
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DonVito
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Triumph
*sigh*, angry people love to make this argument. When you listen to the originals, they sound nothing like LZ's versions. Some of the lyrics were changed around. If you're going to scream about this stuff, you're going to have to do the same with 3/4's of Eric Clapton's and the Rolling Stone's library. In the 50's and 60's, everyone played everyone else's songs. It's just the way things work.
Also---how do you "steal" a traditional song? That's like someone saying "He TOTALLY stole that from 'London Bridge is Falling Down'!"
Other problems with that list are they were inspired to do Babe I'm Gonna Leave You from Joan Baez, who also covered it (and she took the writing credits on her version as well).
Most of the other blues covers on the list as I said sound NOTHING like LZ's versions. There's a similar lyric here and there, but if you listened to them side by side (I have most of the original versions), you'll see that they were more inspirational pieces than anything else. As for paying royalties- that's more a matter of "They got money, now I want some!"
</end quote></div>
It appears you haven't actually heard some of these. Dazed and Confused was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The intro to Stairway to Heaven was stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The ENTIRE lyrics of Babe I'm Gonna Leave You are stolen wholesale, but the composer never received a cent. The Lemon Song was stolen pretty much lock, stock, and barrel.
I think LZ were a highly talented band, but when you consider that roughly 1/4 of their entire catalog is stolen, and that they never gave ANY credit, nor paid any royalties, until they were sued, it's hard to respect them as musicians or human beings. I think they're total dirtbags.
</end quote></div>
I HAVE the original recordings of the songs. Dazed and confused was just a bass run and was played in nearly every blues club in the south in the early 60's. It was originally called "I'm Confused", and the lyrics are not the same. Plant took bits and pieces from dozens of blues songs to make the lyrics for their version.
The Stairway thing has some merit to it becaues Page just saw Spirit a few weeks before writing Stairway, so the beginning portion was probably lifted from them.
Babe I'm going to leave you had been recorded by dozens of people during the 60's. It's a traditional folk song. Plant was a big Joan Baez fan and liked her version. Anne Bredon actually wrote the song, but you never hear of Anne Bredon. Anyone that recorded the song took credit for it- there were no royalty fights in the 50's and 60's.
What people are trying to do is place todays "I gotta get my piece of the pie" values on the simpler times 40-50 years ago, and it doesn't work.
You're COMPLETELY wrong about Dazed and Confused - they stole the entire song from Jake Holmes (curiously enough, a joke writer who went on to write many successful jingles, including "Be All You Can Be" for the Army), including the title, the music, and most of the lyrics.
all music should be free to download, to borrow, to remake. it just isnt about the money... *sigh*
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
IronWing
No Lifer
- Jul 20, 2001
- 72,864
- 33,926
- 136
Led Zeppelin has been just about to reunite for two generations now.
In a similar vein: With modern video editing we should be able to reunite the Beatles. Ringo and Paul could play together and then George and John could be added later. A little age progression should help it along.
In a similar vein: With modern video editing we should be able to reunite the Beatles. Ringo and Paul could play together and then George and John could be added later. A little age progression should help it along.
MikeyIs4Dcats
Lifer
- Nov 5, 2001
- 18,366
- 3
- 0
I don't think anyone here "acquired" music AND THEN resold it and told everyone they wrote "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and went on to make millions from it. Now you want to talk about stealing, THAT is stealing.
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