Learning how to drive manual

[doanster]

Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Do NOT try to heel and toe until much later. It is not a beginner technique and concentrating on it now will only cause you problems. The way you're doing it is correct though, it's just not something to concentrate on right now.

To shift from 1st to 2nd: Press the clutch pedal to the floor, move the lever from 1st to 2nd, release the clutch pedal smoothly.

ZV

 

[j00fek]

i dont think there are ways to really explain it. i learned just by buying a 5speed 5 yrs ago. only thing i could explain is alwayse be in 2nd when turing onto a road, and alwayse shift @3500-4000rpms :disgust:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: j00fek
i dont think there are ways to really explain it. i learned just by buying a 5speed 5 yrs ago. only thing i could explain is alwayse be in 2nd when turing onto a road, and alwayse shift @3500-4000rpms :disgust:

Those two recommendations are applicable only if he has the same car as you.

My 944 in normal driving is shifted between 3,000 and 3,500 RPM and is in 2nd for a 90 degree turn, but the Mustang is shifted between 1,500 and 2,000 RPM and is in 3rd for a 90 degree corner. It all depends on the torque curve of the engine and the gearing in the transmission.

ZV

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Do NOT try to heel and toe until much later. It is not a beginner technique and concentrating on it now will only cause you problems. The way you're doing it is correct though, it's just not something to concentrate on right now.

To shift from 1st to 2nd: Press the clutch pedal to the floor, move the lever from 1st to 2nd, release the clutch pedal smoothly.

ZV

:thumbsup:

Next thing you know he'll be a) posting about how he wrecked his car or b) how to double-declutch (you guys call it something else).

Practise, practise, PRACTISE. It's the only way to learn.

 

[imported_Phil]

OP: If your 1st->2nd shift is lumpy/not smooth, then apply a touch of gas as you engage the clutch, and bring the clutch up slower.

 

[FoBoT]

practice




practice




practice some more


practice

 

[doanster]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Do NOT try to heel and toe until much later. It is not a beginner technique and concentrating on it now will only cause you problems. The way you're doing it is correct though, it's just not something to concentrate on right now.

To shift from 1st to 2nd: Press the clutch pedal to the floor, move the lever from 1st to 2nd, release the clutch pedal smoothly.

ZV

:thumbsup:

Next thing you know he'll be a) posting about how he wrecked his car or b) how to double-declutch (you guys call it something else).

Practise, practise, PRACTISE. It's the only way to learn.

Why would I wreck my car... and I think double-clutching is really unnecessary for modern cars with decent synchros anyway.

 

[maximus maximus]

Originally posted by: Phil
OP: If your 1st->2nd shift is lumpy/not smooth, then apply a touch of gas as you engage the clutch, and bring the clutch up slower.

Perfect answer. A touch of gas does the trick.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: doanster
Why would I wreck my car...

Because you're a manual-shift noobie and it's very easy to push the brake far too hard when heel & toeing. Stick to the basics, and get them down pat first.

and I think double-clutching is really unnecessary for modern cars with decent synchros anyway.

You'll find out why it's a useful skill once you've been driving stick for a while.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: doanster
Why would I wreck my car... and I think double-clutching is really unnecessary for modern cars with decent synchros anyway.

Why on earth would you heel and toe if you're not double-clutching?

ZV

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Phil
You'll find out why it's a useful skill once you've been driving stick for a while.

why is it useful? I cannot get the hang of it, it just seems to slow me down... possibly because I think too much about it as I was trained not to do it. But yeah, I've never quite understood the benefit though.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: Phil
You'll find out why it's a useful skill once you've been driving stick for a while.

why is it useful? I cannot get the hang of it, it just seems to slow me down... possibly because I think too much about it as I was trained not to do it. But yeah, I've never quite understood the benefit though.

Because it makes shifting into a lower gear that will result in high RPMs much, much easier and safer.
Imagine you're coming up to an intersection at 60mph. To use engine braking, you're going to need to drop a gear or two in order to get the revs up enough so it's worthwhile. This, for me, involves a shift to third gear, and unless you rev-match or double-clutch, the shift will be difficult and when the clutch bites, the car is going to get twitchy because of the sudden decelleration. (I can't think of the right way to write that word so sue me)

For another example, there's a road around here that I turn into a fair bit that has a HUGELY steep start to it. You need first gear, and unless you stop and engage first, you need to double-clutch / rev-match to get the car into first. Synchro will only take you so far, you need to spin the engine up so that the engine and gearbox are running at roughly the same speed.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: j00fek
i dont think there are ways to really explain it. i learned just by buying a 5speed 5 yrs ago. only thing i could explain is alwayse be in 2nd when turing onto a road, and alwayse shift @3500-4000rpms :disgust:

Those two recommendations are applicable only if he has the same car as you.

My 944 in normal driving is shifted between 3,000 and 3,500 RPM and is in 2nd for a 90 degree turn, but the Mustang is shifted between 1,500 and 2,000 RPM and is in 3rd for a 90 degree corner. It all depends on the torque curve of the engine and the gearing in the transmission.

ZV

QFT

 

[FrustratedUser]

I am amazed every time I read threads like this. WTH is so hard to understand!?
You will get smoother with time. It's all in the 'feel' of the car. You will learn to feel how the clutch is engaging at different rpms, you will feel how much power the engine makes, you will learn and feel what the correct shift point is for different driving styles (highway, city, agressive, calm driving)

Shifting ABC:

A - engage clutch
B - shift gear
C - disengage clutch, match with some more rpms if needed to get a smooth shift.


Heel and toe shifting - I have yet to find any time in normal driving this is even remotely useful. It's a 'racing' technique used to shift faster.
While you're at it why don't you try left foot braking too. :roll:

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
I am amazed every time I read threads like this. WTH is so hard to understand!?
You will get smoother with time. It's all in the 'feel' of the car. You will learn to feel how the clutch is engaging at different rpms, you will feel how much power the engine makes, you will learn and feel what the correct shift point is for different driving styles (highway, city, agressive, calm driving)

Shifting ABC:

A - engage clutch
B - shift gear
C - disengage clutch, match with some more rpms if needed to get a smooth shift.


Heel and toe shifting - I have yet to find any time in normal driving this is even remotely useful. It's a 'racing' technique used to shift faster.
While you're at it why don't you try left foot braking too. :roll:

Not necessarily. I find it useful if I have to brake hard and I want some engine braking at the same time, without de-stabilising the car. That skill alone could mean the difference between an all-wheel braking lockup into the back of someone else, and coming to a halt in time.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
I am amazed every time I read threads like this. WTH is so hard to understand!?
You will get smoother with time. It's all in the 'feel' of the car. You will learn to feel how the clutch is engaging at different rpms, you will feel how much power the engine makes, you will learn and feel what the correct shift point is for different driving styles (highway, city, agressive, calm driving)

Shifting ABC:

A - engage clutch
B - shift gear
C - disengage clutch, match with some more rpms if needed to get a smooth shift.


Heel and toe shifting - I have yet to find any time in normal driving this is even remotely useful. It's a 'racing' technique used to shift faster.
While you're at it why don't you try left foot braking too. :roll:

Not necessarily. I find it useful if I have to brake hard and I want some engine braking at the same time, without de-stabilising the car. That skill alone could mean the difference between an all-wheel braking lockup into the back of someone else, and coming to a halt in time.

If you want engine braking at the same time just leave it in gear and use the brakes. I really don't see what you mean.
I don't care if the engine stalls in a situation like that. Avoiding a collision is the important part.
C'mon guys.... just drive and you'll get better. There's nothing more to it than that.

 

[doanster]

I didn't start this thread to get flamed

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: doanster
I didn't start this thread to get flamed

They're flaming themselves really. Just follow the advice I gave you and practice.

ZV

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Power Shifting FTW!
.
.
.
.
.
all joking aside, ZV's advice is :thumbsup:

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECU will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Watch these instructional videos:
http://www.standardshift.com/videos.html

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECY will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

Umm first of all, every single car and bike I've ever owned has been manual. So I have done some daily driving on a manual....

Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

 

[doanster]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECY will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

Umm first of all, every single car and bike I've ever owned has been manual. So I have done some daily driving on a manual....

Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

Just FYI, the ECU fuel map is a 3D map that incorporates engine RPM and also throttle position to determine the third axis - the amount of fuel going into the engine. So FrustratedUser is right, the injectors do turn off when the gas is off, until your engine drops down to idling speed. Take a look at the service manual for your car and the fuel map, it checks out.