Learning how to drive manual

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: halik
Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

With the wheels spinning the engine, the ECU can (and does) shut off the injectors if the engine is above a certain RPM with the throttle closed. My 1986 car does this. Pretty much every EFI car has done this for decades.

As for strain, far more force is imparted by even casual acceleration than is imparted by engine braking. Coasting down while in gear is no harder on the drivetrain than anything else. F=MA M does not change, so the force on the drivetrain is proportional to acceleration (or deceleration) rate. The rate of change of speed when coasting down in gear is less than the rate of change in speed when accelerating in gear. That means that there is more force imparted on the drivetrain during acceleration than there is while coasting in gear.

ZV

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECY will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

Umm first of all, every single car and bike I've ever owned has been manual. So I have done some daily driving on a manual....

Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

It's very simple. Since you're engine braking the engine is turned over by the transmission and doesn't need any fuel to keep rotating. On the other hand... if you go into neutral it needs fuel to keep turning.

Are you telling me that you've been going into neutral everytime you let off the gas?
Sorry, but you've just learned the wrong way.
I've been driving stick since '88 if that matters in a pissing contest.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: doanster

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECY will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

Umm first of all, every single car and bike I've ever owned has been manual. So I have done some daily driving on a manual....

Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

Just FYI, the ECU fuel map is a 3D map that incorporates engine RPM and also throttle position to determine the third axis - the amount of fuel going into the engine. So FrustratedUser is right, the injectors do turn off when the gas is off, until your engine drops down to idling speed. Take a look at the service manual for your car and the fuel map, it checks out.

Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

If you just do some daily driving in a stick shift you will understand what engine braking means in reality. It doesn't mean that you use it to come to a stop.
Engine braking occurs everytime you let off the gas to just adjust speed. It's not hurting anything and it doesn't waste gas since the ECY will turn off the injector while this is happening. Going into neutral (engaging the clutch) uses more gas.

Have you ever driven down a steep decent? What do you think happens to the brakes if you don't use engine braking?
Report back when you know what you talk about.

Umm first of all, every single car and bike I've ever owned has been manual. So I have done some daily driving on a manual....

Please do explain how ecu turns off injectors without stalling the engine... I'd really like to know that. What really happens is that you're reving down the engine at closed throttle and low fuel mapping and high rpms. Compared to neutral where the car is at low rpms and low fuel mapping. So you burn X times more gas where X is how many times faster is the crank spinning.

Also braking with engine does put more strain on the drive train, because you're applying the friction force of the road opposite of the rototation of the engine, tranny, drive shafts etc. I prefer to use the intended parts to apply this force - the brakes.

Just FYI, the ECU fuel map is a 3D map that incorporates engine RPM and also throttle position to determine the third axis - the amount of fuel going into the engine. So FrustratedUser is right, the injectors do turn off when the gas is off, until your engine drops down to idling speed. Take a look at the service manual for your car and the fuel map, it checks out.

Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Dude! We're talking passenger cars here, not sports bikes.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: halik
Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Motorcycles are not cars.

I know for an absolute fact that my Mustang and my 944 and my Lincoln and my old Accord all completely turn off the injectors when the throttle is closed and the engine is spinning above a certain threshold RPM. Most ECU's turn the injectors back on gradually, so there is no abruptness.

I appreciate your effort, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

ZV

 

[FrustratedUser]

ZV - you got :beer: and waiting down the hall, just outside my office in the 'Lifer' complex.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik
Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Motorcycles are not cars.

I know for an absolute fact that my Mustang and my 944 and my Lincoln and my old Accord all completely turn off the injectors when the throttle is closed and the engine is spinning above a certain threshold RPM. Most ECU's turn the injectors back on gradually, so there is no abruptness.

I appreciate your effort, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

ZV

porsche 944 fuel maps

Do you have any links for the stuff? I have never seen a fuel map with a total cutoff.

porsche 928 fuel maps

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
I am amazed every time I read threads like this. WTH is so hard to understand!?
You will get smoother with time. It's all in the 'feel' of the car. You will learn to feel how the clutch is engaging at different rpms, you will feel how much power the engine makes, you will learn and feel what the correct shift point is for different driving styles (highway, city, agressive, calm driving)

Shifting ABC:

A - engage clutch
B - shift gear
C - disengage clutch, match with some more rpms if needed to get a smooth shift.


Heel and toe shifting - I have yet to find any time in normal driving this is even remotely useful. It's a 'racing' technique used to shift faster.
While you're at it why don't you try left foot braking too. :roll:

Not necessarily. I find it useful if I have to brake hard and I want some engine braking at the same time, without de-stabilising the car. That skill alone could mean the difference between an all-wheel braking lockup into the back of someone else, and coming to a halt in time.

If you want engine braking at the same time just leave it in gear and use the brakes. I really don't see what you mean.
I don't care if the engine stalls in a situation like that. Avoiding a collision is the important part.
C'mon guys.... just drive and you'll get better. There's nothing more to it than that.

What I mean is that (as you know) the higher the RPM, the greater the engine braking force. So leaving it in gear without downshifting wouldn't really give you any engine braking

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Heel & Toe has everything to do with downshifting.

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

No, and no.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik
Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Motorcycles are not cars.

I know for an absolute fact that my Mustang and my 944 and my Lincoln and my old Accord all completely turn off the injectors when the throttle is closed and the engine is spinning above a certain threshold RPM. Most ECU's turn the injectors back on gradually, so there is no abruptness.

I appreciate your effort, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

ZV

porsche 944 fuel maps

Do you have any links for the stuff? I have never seen a fuel map with a total cutoff.

porsche 928 fuel maps

The cutoff is independant of the fuel map. It's a separate function of the DME and is a simple logic that compares engine RPM and TPS data independant of the fuel map.

Basically: IF TPS=CLOSED AND IF RPM > 1,200 THEN FUELFLOW=0

From the same site with those fuel maps: http://frwilk.com/early944/misc/shudder.htm

"In other word, fuel is cut-off when the throttle is closed and does not start up again until the engine drops below 1,200RPM."

I repeat: Fuel shut-off is NOT part of the fuel map in ANY way. Period.

ZV

 

[archcommus]

Interesting, I don't even know how to drive MT but I'm learning a lot reading this thread!

 

[Bullhonkie]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: doanster
Who here is good at driving stick?
I have 2 questions:

1)what's the best way to smoothly shift from 1st to 2nd?
2)when doing heel-and-toe downshifting, I find it much easier to brake with my big toes and then 'blip' the gas with the right side of my foot by pivoting on the right side of the brake pedal.. is this dangerous? (so not actually using my heel and toe)
3)any other tips?

Heel and Toe has nothing to do with downshifting... all you need to do is push in the cluch, shift, give it a little throttle and release the clutch smoothly.

Heel & Toe has everything to do with downshifting.

Yep. The only time you'd do it is when you downshift. Why would you need to blip the throttle otherwise?

Also another thing, braking with the engine is stupid. You waste gas and put strain on your drivetrain.

No, and no.

And if anything you might save a tiny bit of gas. See this thread: Does a car still burn gas while moving with its own momentum?

 

[doanster]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik
Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Motorcycles are not cars.

I know for an absolute fact that my Mustang and my 944 and my Lincoln and my old Accord all completely turn off the injectors when the throttle is closed and the engine is spinning above a certain threshold RPM. Most ECU's turn the injectors back on gradually, so there is no abruptness.

I appreciate your effort, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

ZV

porsche 944 fuel maps

Do you have any links for the stuff? I have never seen a fuel map with a total cutoff.

porsche 928 fuel maps

The cutoff is independant of the fuel map. It's a separate function of the DME and is a simple logic that compares engine RPM and TPS data independant of the fuel map.

Basically: IF TPS=CLOSED AND IF RPM > 1,200 THEN FUELFLOW=0

From the same site with those fuel maps: http://frwilk.com/early944/misc/shudder.htm

"In other word, fuel is cut-off when the throttle is closed and does not start up again until the engine drops below 1,200RPM."

I repeat: Fuel shut-off is NOT part of the fuel map in ANY way. Period.

ZV

Umm... interesting.
So that's why engine braking always stops working in my car whenever the throttle drops to around 1100 rpm... it would decelerate predictably until around 1100rpm and all of the sudden the engine would add a small of amount of gas by itself and keep the car moving at idling rpm...

Thanks for clarifying that up, ZV!

 

[Toastedlightly]

Only thing that stinks is that for us carb kids, engine braking uses up more gas

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: doanster

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: halik
Fuel map is 3d, however it doesn't turn off injectors when the throttle is closed. The amount of fuel delivered is always more than 0, otherwise the engine would act really rought in the transition.

Check out this tuned bike:
triump daytona map

If you take an intergral of the curve at going from 50% throttle to 0% and then rpms dropping to idle it will be lot less than taking the integral diagonally going from 50% to 0% dropping rpms some then blipping to 50% throttle, downshifting, then dropping the rpms a bit and on and on.

Motorcycles are not cars.

I know for an absolute fact that my Mustang and my 944 and my Lincoln and my old Accord all completely turn off the injectors when the throttle is closed and the engine is spinning above a certain threshold RPM. Most ECU's turn the injectors back on gradually, so there is no abruptness.

I appreciate your effort, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

ZV

porsche 944 fuel maps

Do you have any links for the stuff? I have never seen a fuel map with a total cutoff.

porsche 928 fuel maps

The cutoff is independant of the fuel map. It's a separate function of the DME and is a simple logic that compares engine RPM and TPS data independant of the fuel map.

Basically: IF TPS=CLOSED AND IF RPM > 1,200 THEN FUELFLOW=0

From the same site with those fuel maps: http://frwilk.com/early944/misc/shudder.htm

"In other word, fuel is cut-off when the throttle is closed and does not start up again until the engine drops below 1,200RPM."

I repeat: Fuel shut-off is NOT part of the fuel map in ANY way. Period.

ZV

Umm... interesting.
So that's why engine braking always stops working in my car whenever the throttle drops to around 1100 rpm... it would decelerate predictably until around 1100rpm and all of the sudden the engine would add a small of amount of gas by itself and keep the car moving at idling rpm...

Thanks for clarifying that up, ZV!

Yeah, that's the anti-stall routine/mechanism kicking in.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: doanster
Umm... interesting.
So that's why engine braking always stops working in my car whenever the throttle drops to around 1100 rpm... it would decelerate predictably until around 1100rpm and all of the sudden the engine would add a small of amount of gas by itself and keep the car moving at idling rpm...

Thanks for clarifying that up, ZV!

Yeah, that's the anti-stall routine/mechanism kicking in.

And obviously the RPM where that kicks in is different for every car, but it's typically a couple hundred RPM above idle.

ZV

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: doanster
Umm... interesting.
So that's why engine braking always stops working in my car whenever the throttle drops to around 1100 rpm... it would decelerate predictably until around 1100rpm and all of the sudden the engine would add a small of amount of gas by itself and keep the car moving at idling rpm...

Thanks for clarifying that up, ZV!

Yeah, that's the anti-stall routine/mechanism kicking in.

And obviously the RPM where that kicks in is different for every car, but it's typically a couple hundred RPM above idle.

ZV

I've noticed the Focus starting anti-stall at around 1500rpm under braking in gear, a noticeable but small blip in the smoothness of the braking, and then it kicks hard at about 900rpm before it stalls at 500-600rpm.
It'd be a better drive if the clutch weren't on it's way out at 37,000 miles :|
Oh, and some cowardly fvcking asshole keyed it in the last couple of days; it's dirty so I only just noticed the 6" scar on the offside rear door, complete with the "bumpiness" of a key scratch compared to something laterally immovable such as a baby pushchair*. Gah! :| :| :|

* You call them strollers, I think.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I love these threads...

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: doanster
Umm... interesting.
So that's why engine braking always stops working in my car whenever the throttle drops to around 1100 rpm... it would decelerate predictably until around 1100rpm and all of the sudden the engine would add a small of amount of gas by itself and keep the car moving at idling rpm...

Thanks for clarifying that up, ZV!

Yeah, that's the anti-stall routine/mechanism kicking in.

And obviously the RPM where that kicks in is different for every car, but it's typically a couple hundred RPM above idle.

ZV

I've noticed the Focus starting anti-stall at around 1500rpm under braking in gear, a noticeable but small blip in the smoothness of the braking, and then it kicks hard at about 900rpm before it stalls at 500-600rpm.
It'd be a better drive if the clutch weren't on it's way out at 37,000 miles :|
Oh, and some cowardly fvcking asshole keyed it in the last couple of days; it's dirty so I only just noticed the 6" scar on the offside rear door, complete with the "bumpiness" of a key scratch compared to something laterally immovable such as a baby pushchair*. Gah! :| :| :|

* You call them strollers, I think.

I will kill if that happens to my new car. :|

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I love these threads...

I hate car-keying fvcks :|

Your Scooby was keyed, wasn't it? Any tips on how to minimize the scratch, such as T-Cut'ing it out?

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I love these threads...

I hate car-keying fvcks :|

Your Scooby was keyed, wasn't it? Any tips on how to minimize the scratch, such as T-Cut'ing it out?

Wasn't keyed. Some EXPLETIVE-DELETED put a crease down it when leaving a parking space next to it. It was mostly a rub mark and TCut got most of it out, but you can still see it up close.

A deep key mark is a paint job, usually.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I love these threads...

I hate car-keying fvcks :|

Your Scooby was keyed, wasn't it? Any tips on how to minimize the scratch, such as T-Cut'ing it out?

Wasn't keyed. Some EXPLETIVE-DELETED put a crease down it when leaving a parking space next to it. It was mostly a rub mark and TCut got most of it out, but you can still see it up close.

A deep key mark is a paint job, usually.

:|
I might have to get some touchup paint and see if I can "dab" it away. Trouble is, it's metallic dark green, and I don't know if you can get metallic touchup paint.

 

[doanster]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
I love these threads...

I hate car-keying fvcks :|

Your Scooby was keyed, wasn't it? Any tips on how to minimize the scratch, such as T-Cut'ing it out?

Wasn't keyed. Some EXPLETIVE-DELETED put a crease down it when leaving a parking space next to it. It was mostly a rub mark and TCut got most of it out, but you can still see it up close.

A deep key mark is a paint job, usually.

:|
I might have to get some touchup paint and see if I can "dab" it away. Trouble is, it's metallic dark green, and I don't know if you can get metallic touchup paint.

Yeah, metallic paint is expensive. If it's just a scratch, it is suggested that you use a toothpick to dab the paint directly in the scratch and it should look ok?

Some [expletive deleted] swiped a big scuff of paint off my front bumper a few days after I bought my car..... grrrr..... ( i have a metallic green car too )

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Phil

Originally posted by: randomlinh

Originally posted by: Phil
You'll find out why it's a useful skill once you've been driving stick for a while.

why is it useful? I cannot get the hang of it, it just seems to slow me down... possibly because I think too much about it as I was trained not to do it. But yeah, I've never quite understood the benefit though.

Because it makes shifting into a lower gear that will result in high RPMs much, much easier and safer.
Imagine you're coming up to an intersection at 60mph. To use engine braking, you're going to need to drop a gear or two in order to get the revs up enough so it's worthwhile. This, for me, involves a shift to third gear, and unless you rev-match or double-clutch, the shift will be difficult and when the clutch bites, the car is going to get twitchy because of the sudden decelleration. (I can't think of the right way to write that word so sue me)

For another example, there's a road around here that I turn into a fair bit that has a HUGELY steep start to it. You need first gear, and unless you stop and engage first, you need to double-clutch / rev-match to get the car into first. Synchro will only take you so far, you need to spin the engine up so that the engine and gearbox are running at roughly the same speed.

you mention rev-matching/double clutching as if it were one... I guess double clutching would imply the need to rev-match. I generally just shift into the gear i feel would be appropriate and then rev match and then drop the clutch.

 

[marvdmartian]

Okay, as it's been pointed out by the more helpful replies here, practise will make you a better driver, with or without a manual shift vehicle.

As far as downshifting goes, the bottom line is that most modern vehicles lack the engine compression to make a huge difference in helping to slow down the vehicle. If you're driving a larger vehicle, with a V8 engine, you can get some pretty decent braking by downshifting, but if you're driving a little 4-banger econobox, it's likely all you're going to do is make your engine whine by revving up the rpm's. If you're someone who thinks that's cool, good on ya.

For braking with the engine while going down a steep decline, simply dropping it into a lower gear (usually I've just dropped it from 5th to 4th gear, not really much of a drop) will keep you from having to ride your brakes on the way down. I don't consider that much of a "downshift", it's more taking advantage of the gearing to keep from heating up your brakes. And yes, I've done this going through the mountains, and it worked well.

But your brakes were really the only part of your car designed for slowing down and/or stopping your vehicle, so I'd depend more on stomping in the clutch pedal and hitting the brakes for now, until you're used to driving with the clutch. Modern vehicles with anti-lock brakes will give you just as much control as downshifting, without complicating the driving for a "noob". Oh, and let's face it......a $25 set of brake pads is infinitely cheaper to replace than a $150 clutch kit, especially when you also calculate the labor involved!! :shocked:

So keep practising.....and work on your clutch skill/speed on taking off from a stop on an incline. It takes a bit of practise to get used to, and to keep your vehicle from rolling backwards while you're trying to switch from the brake to the gas pedal/clutch, but it's doable, and you'll likely find that to be more helpful of a skill to have.