Leaked Llano socket shots.

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RobertPters77

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Feb 11, 2011
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http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-llano-socket-fm1-sample,12549.html

http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/tips/show_pic.php?picid=4893183&key=3&subcatid=11&bookid=98403

I thought Amd was going to a Land Grid Array for Fusion. Also does this mean Amd will have two desktop sockets now like intel? FM1 and AM3(+). Btw, I counted 941 pin contacts on the socket. The same as AM3 currently has. So why not have llano and bulldozer share the same socket? I would definitely buy Llano if it was socket compatible with Bulldozer.
 
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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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From the picture you can see:

amd-llano-bulldozer,G-D-288301-13.jpg



31x31 pin holes (961 pins).
-13 (-3 pins pr corner + -4 in one)
-08 (those white pads)
-35 (7x5 squire in middle/hole thingy)

= 905 pins total for FM1 socket. (took me like 2mins to do this hope your happy (u made me count them lol) :p)



does this mean Amd will have two desktop sockets now like intel? FM1 and AM3(+).
Click to expand...
Yeah it looks like it ll have 1 platform, for the APUs and 1 for the CPU's.

So a bulldozer will use a differnt motherboard, than the Llano does.
 
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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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So this thing is basically an "enhanced" Phenom II with a 400 shader GPU, right?

I hope they found some sort of major bottleneck in the K10 chips because they need to gain on Intel in terms of IPC.
 
busydude

busydude

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Feb 5, 2010
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SickBeast said:
So this thing is basically an "enhanced" Phenom II with a 400 shader GPU, right? I hope they found some sort of major bottleneck in the K10 chips because they need to gain on Intel in terms of IPC.
Click to expand...

I think AMD pretty much gave on IPC "wars".. there is no chance of Llano beating intel in terms of IPC.

AMD is betting on its GPU.. it is trying to cash in on Intel's weakness in that space. There was an AMD blog which argues that x86 benchmarks in consumer space are irrelevant as any modern CPU can do almost anything and GPU is the one that people needs to focus on.
 
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nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
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busydude said:
I think AMD pretty much gave on IPC "wars".. there is no chance of Llano beating intel in terms of IPC.

AMD is betting on its GPU.. it is trying to cash in on Intel's weakness in that space. There was an AMD blog which argues that x86 benchmarks in consumer space are irrelevant as any modern CPU can do almost anything and GPU is the one that people needs to focus on.
Click to expand...
thats understandable but aside from gaming, I don't really see any big demand for GPU in the consumer arena either, except for video encoding/decoding which SB handles.
 
dac7nco

dac7nco

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busydude said:
There was an AMD blog which argues that x86 benchmarks in consumer space are irrelevant as any modern CPU can do almost anything and GPU is the one that people needs to focus on.
Click to expand...

I hope that wasn't an FX/Opteron blog.

Daimon
 
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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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I will say that the Llano demo was impressive, despite the fact that AMD's marketing department put on a big show.

My system is K10 based, and I don't feel the need for more power unless I'm playing Starcraft, but that game will put the hurt on any CPU.
 
Cerb

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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nonameo said:
thats understandable but aside from gaming, I don't really see any big demand for GPU in the consumer arena either, except for video encoding/decoding which SB handles.
Click to expand...
You're out of it, then. Smooth multitasking while playing back videos? Abuses of Powerpoint? Editing their home videos, or random crap to put on Youtube? Abuses of Excel? Aero? The latest web browsers? Addictive flash games?

Yeah, no use for a GPU. Certainly nobody buys GPUs in cheap laptops, either (ATI before they were AMD, and lately AMD themselves, have made decent amounts of money throwing their crappier GPUs on Intel laptops--before that, various S3 chips were common). They'd be better off saving all that die space and just giving people a bare minimum VESA-compatible display adapter. We're at least 10 years into the demand having been there. Now it's just affordable for AMD to stick a decent one on the CPU die.

SickBeast said:
I hope they found some sort of major bottleneck in the K10 chips because they need to gain on Intel in terms of IPC.
Click to expand...
Nah. Even if they improved the cores overall, as would be expected (5-10%?), and even figured out a way to improve NB performance w/o excessive heat (OCing the PhII/AII NB gets nice gains), it would still be well below Nehalem performance. AMD's advantage is Llano having the IGP performance and features of a low-end Radeon card, combined with AMD's video drivers. From my recent experience, we are, much like we were in ~2002, at a point where cheap hardware is fast enough for a critical mass of users. If HP and Gateway really market Llano, it's AMD's pot of gold to lose, even it still only performs about as well as a Core 2.
 
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podspi

podspi

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Jan 11, 2011
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SickBeast said:
I will say that the Llano demo was impressive, despite the fact that AMD's marketing department put on a big show.

My system is K10 based, and I don't feel the need for more power unless I'm playing Starcraft, but that game will put the hurt on any CPU.
Click to expand...

I think you need something ridiculous like a K10 @ 3.4ghz to ensure a decent frame rate under worst-case scenario. Haven't actually picked up a copy (yet) but my 1055T does hit that :D AMD's marketing department has been crazy aggressive lately. I think it is a good sign. Llano is going to be huge for cheapo gaming machines. Maybe finally a PC gaming comeback?
 
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RobertPters77

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Feb 11, 2011
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Sorry I counted wrong...

But if Llano requires less pins than AM3, then why didn't Amd let it share a socket with BD? Like I said if I could swap out Llano APU and a Bulldozer CPU on socket AM3+ on a whim, I would. Although I could see the potential problem of requiring all MB makers to put DVI ports on the IO panel of their mobos.
 
podspi

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
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RobertPters77 said:
Sorry I counted wrong...

But if Llano requires less pins than AM3, then why didn't Amd let it share a socket with BD? Like I said if I could swap out Llano APU and a Bulldozer CPU on socket AM3+ on a whim, I would. Although I could see the potential problem of requiring all MB makers to put DVI ports on the IO panel of their mobos.
Click to expand...

Because AM3+ doesn't have video out... Remember, the socket is still backwards compatible with older AM3 CPUs. Of course, that strategy would have made more sense if AM3+ boards were out months ago, as opposed to essentially launching with Bulldozer...
 
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RobertPters77

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Feb 11, 2011
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I understand what you're saying, but isn't it the case that most socket's have more pins than they need? When amd switched to 939 from 754 tom's(I believe) found that not all pins were being used for Dual Channel memory. Most were idle. Likewise with AM2(+) the pins required for DDR2 was a minimal increase over 939.
 
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Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
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SickBeast said:
So this thing is basically an "enhanced" Phenom II with a 400 shader GPU, right?

I hope they found some sort of major bottleneck in the K10 chips because they need to gain on Intel in terms of IPC.
Click to expand...


No they don't. I use a socket 775 intel system and it does everything I need and some. Llano will be faster than that and offer much better video than intel.

For 90%+ home users this will work just fine if not better than they need. Let alone OEMs will love it and push it during the back to school rush.
 
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Arkadrel

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Oct 19, 2010
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nonameo said:
thats understandable but aside from gaming, I don't really see any big demand for GPU in the consumer arena either, except for video encoding/decoding which SB handles.
Click to expand...

Nvidia's CUDA people seem to understand... but they cant understand AMD wanting to use the GPU (on the APU's) for other things than gameing? why is that?

Your "forgetting" or ignoreing, the fact that one of the main reasons they say that ("the future is fusion") is because they plan on useing their GPU to do GPGPU stuff. They remove a bottleneck by implimenting the GPU on the same chip as the CPU, so these smaller chips have HUGE gpgpu compute power.

A few programs ppl might use, that make use of the GPU acceleration:

There where alot of links to games, that use the GPU acceleration for GPGPU stuff too but didnt bother linking.


Heres a in general, list of software applications that can make use of GPGPU Computeing:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=58195

^ above software, uses your GPU to offload work from your CPU, so you dont need a powerfull CPU to run them.
 
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T

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
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RobertPters77 said:
I understand what you're saying, but isn't it the case that most socket's have more pins than they need? When amd switched to 939 from 754 tom's(I believe) found that not all pins were being used for Dual Channel memory. Most were idle. Likewise with AM2(+) the pins required for DDR2 was a minimal increase over 939.
Click to expand...

Electronic pathing. Just because there are unused pins or something they can assign a different value doesn't mean they can. Can make one socket one that has backwards compatibility all the way back to 939 (which the change had more to do with the dual controller they used for the Phenom II not being ready yet) would be electronically compatible with a new type of processing unit on it. It probably why Intel had to replace 1156 with 1155 even though they dropped a pin but included a GPU.

Best think of it this way. The pin location for a certain signal isn't chosen at random. Lets say the Vid core stuff needs as close possible to the video equipment on the board. You might have to use a pin configuration that with a BD chip might be used for HT. Its why memory is always so close to the CPU even though it might impact HSF options. The free pins on AM3+ might be enough for Llano, but that doesn't mean that Llano could ever work on Am3+'s configuration.
 
piesquared

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
1,651
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Arkadrel said:
Nvidia's CUDA people seem to understand... but they cant understand AMD wanting to use the GPU (on the APU's) for other things than gameing? why is that?

Your "forgetting" or ignoreing, the fact that one of the main reasons they say that ("the future is fusion") is because they plan on useing their GPU to do GPGPU stuff. They remove a bottleneck by implimenting the GPU on the same chip as the CPU, so these smaller chips have HUGE gpgpu compute power.

A few programs ppl might use, that make use of the GPU acceleration:

There where alot of links to games, that use the GPU acceleration for GPGPU stuff too but didnt bother linking.


Heres a in general, list of software applications that can make use of GPGPU Computeing:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=58195

^ above software, uses your GPU to offload work from your CPU, so you dont need a powerfull CPU to run them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, GPGPU computing is gaining massive support and to claim it isn't is just burying the proverbial head in sand. There are one or two companies out there that has much to gain from slowing down this development as much as possible until they (it) has hardware that can compete. I think we all know who that is. It's websites like Anandtech that has the responsibility to inform consumers, rather than suck teets.

Here's another major software that is supporting GPU acceleration:

Sony Creative Software Sony Vegas Pro
 
Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

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Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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Arkadrel said:
Nvidia's CUDA people seem to understand... but they cant understand AMD wanting to use the GPU (on the APU's) for other things than gameing? why is that?

Your "forgetting" or ignoreing, the fact that one of the main reasons they say that ("the future is fusion") is because they plan on useing their GPU to do GPGPU stuff. They remove a bottleneck by implimenting the GPU on the same chip as the CPU, so these smaller chips have HUGE gpgpu compute power.

A few programs ppl might use, that make use of the GPU acceleration:

There where alot of links to games, that use the GPU acceleration for GPGPU stuff too but didnt bother linking.


Heres a in general, list of software applications that can make use of GPGPU Computeing:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=58195

^ above software, uses your GPU to offload work from your CPU, so you dont need a powerfull CPU to run them.
Click to expand...

That is because CUDA has a complete ECO system...where as AMD's GPCPU is somewhat...lacking.
 
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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
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Guys, GPGPU is still in its infancy despite being here since the G80 was released several years ago. Once it catches on, you can expect it to have a huge impact.

While it's true the nVidia is superior in this regard right now, they're essentially doing the industry a favor and introducing this new technology. They probably felt as though they had to.
 
piesquared

piesquared

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2006
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AMD's Fusion Developer Summit has many of the big players in the industry attending and giving presentations, so it looks to me like there is a lot of support for Fusion, APU's and GPGPU in general. GPU computing started it's infancy around 5 years ago and has been going on behind the scenes ever since so there is now enough industry support and standardization in place. There are around 100 presentations from June 13-16.

https://amdfusion.wingateweb.com/scheduler/catalog.do
 
Lonbjerg

Lonbjerg

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Dec 6, 2009
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piesquared said:
AMD's Fusion Developer Summit has many of the big players in the industry attending and giving presentations, so it looks to me like there is a lot of support for Fusion, APU's and GPGPU in general. GPU computing started it's infancy around 5 years ago and has been going on behind the scenes ever since so there is now enough industry support and standardization in place. There are around 100 presentations from June 13-16.

https://amdfusion.wingateweb.com/scheduler/catalog.do
Click to expand...


PR is nothing.
Show me an AMD ecosystem for GPGPU?
 
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Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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Show me an AMD ecosystem for GPGPU?
Click to expand...
Such as?
Internet explorere useing GPGPU? has it.
Flash video acceleration useing GPGPU? has it.
Dvd/bluray playback acceleration useing GPGPU? has it.
Video editing acceleration useing GPGPU? has it.
Microsoft office 2011 accelerated via GPGPU? has it.
..
.
.

list goes on and on. What type of program do want thats not GPGPU accelerated atm?
The point is... the Ecosystem is there, or being buildt up now. People are jumping on the APU bandwagon.

Im guessing there's 100's of programs that can use directcompute/APP/OpenCL/OpenGL by now, and AMDs Fusion APUs can do that.
 
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