Launch price of GTX 980 Ti will be $649?

[railven]

Saw this:

EDIT: NVM, seeing it was already mentioned here.

 

[Cloudfire777]

Looks like NV is loosing the collar on the board partners for aftermarket Titans.....

AIO EVGA Titan X

http://videocardz.com/55776/evga-announces-geforce-gtx-titan-x-hybrid

Finally they are coming. After reading the review of EVGA GTX 980 Hybrid, I`m not getting any top GPU without a solution like that

Still, $1099 is a no go for me for a graphic card though

 

[boozzer]

I don't think you've been following the recent rumours.

380/380X are rumoured to be Tonga and Tonga XT (fully unlocked)
R9 390/390X are rumoured to be R9 290/290X with higher clocks and 8GB of GDDR5. That means 390/390X (Hawaii Rev 2) is going to compete with GTX970/980, not GTX980Ti.

What competes with GTX980Ti/Titan X is supposedly Fiji Pro and Fiji XT. At this point we don't know when Fiji Pro will launch and what the names will be. The key takeaway here is almost everyone on this forum is now dismissing any high-end card existing that should slot between a 390X and Fiji Fury. All we have are $399 R9 390X (1050mhz 8GB GDDR5 R9 290X), and $849 Fiji Fury. That makes no sense. There is some missing information here about a 3500 shader Fiji PRO, or the names are being misinterpreted.



No it wouldn't be "stupid low." It would rather mean Fiji Fury and Titan X are "stupidly overpriced" for 99% of PC gamers who have paid attention to 30 years of GPU history.



The inflation argument doesn't work because it hardly explains that prices increased 50-100%, depending on the segment. NV's gross margins have increased from upper-30% to mid-50% from GTX200-> Maxwell generation. You can look up 5-6 years of NV's annual financial statements to confirm this. Today, NV's gross margin is in the 54-56% range, which is about a 45-50% increase from their Fermi gross margins in 2010.

$499-549 680/980 are successors of a $249 GTX560Ti

$999 Titan X is a spiritual successor of $550 GTX580 3GB because it's essentially only a gaming videocard with double the VRAM of the standard model.

A $649 price for 980Ti just sounds good in comparison of the rumoured $850 Radeon Fury and $1K Titan X. How much did a cut-down Fermi cost compared to the top card? $349 is what the GTX570 cost.

Now imagine GTX580 3GB = Titan X and GTX570 = 980Ti, what do we get?

580 3GB vs. 570
512 vs. 480 shaders (+6.7% more)
64 vs. 60 TMUs (+6.7% more)
3GB vs. 1.28GB (+234% more) (although they did later have 2.56GB version of the GTX570)
48 ROPs vs. 40 ROPs (+20% more)

Titan X vs. 980Ti
3072 vs. 2816 shaders (+9.1% more)
192 vs. 176 TMUs (+9.1% more)
12GB vs. 6GB (+100% more)
96 ROPs vs. 96 ROPs (tied)

Nvidia cut down the 980Ti more on the shader and texture side but left the ROP side untouched. The GTX570 is more cut down on the ROP/memory side.

980Ti's performance will be closer to the Titan X than 570's was to the GTX580 but is that worth the price increase from $349 to $649? Unlike GTX570 that provided the option of 2.56GB of VRAM vs. GTX580 3GB, 980Ti seems to come in only 6GB and nothing in between 6GB and 12GB, which means for productivity it's even more neutered than 570 was vs. 580 if we use the VRAM as the biggest selling point of the Titan X's premium over the 980Ti today.

It's not wonder NV's gross margins have skyrocketed because they conditioned gamers now that $500-550 for mid-range and $700-1000 for flagships are reasonable prices and that historical prices of GPUs do not count. I have a feeling a lot of younger gamers entering the PC gaming industry just don't know since they are too young so they think $550 for a mid-range 980 and $1K for flagship gaming card - Titan X - is somehow the historical norm.

It is what it is and we as gamers either have to pay the higher prices or adopt our upgrading/timing strategy. Because of such inflated prices of flagship cards today, we are probably going to see more of these situations where a $350-400 next gen mid-range ~ $700-1000 last gen flagship, similar to a $330 GTX970 vs. $699 780Ti/ $1K OG Titan.

it is scary how well marketing works at times it is almost like magic.

 

[n0x1ous]

Finally they are coming. After reading the review of EVGA GTX 980 Hybrid, I`m not getting any top GPU without a solution like that

Still, $1099 is a no go for me for a graphic card though

Fully Agree. AIO will be high on my checklist for any high end GPU's in the future.

 

[boozzer]

I just thought of something. with the reveal of 980 wce and now titan x wce, what do the people who crapped on the idea of a 390x wce edition think now?

 

[96Firebird]

I'm surprised AIB partners already have custom coolers for the 980 Ti, being it is a larger chip than any before and they'll have to ensure full contact with the GPU... Wonder if they just used the Titan X for their preliminary designs, or if they've had the 980 Ti GPU for a while now.

 

[RussianSensation]

Looks like NV is loosing the collar on the board partners for aftermarket Titans.....

AIO EVGA Titan X

http://videocardz.com/55776/evga-announces-geforce-gtx-titan-x-hybrid

Nice, higher boost clocks, factory warrantied AIO CLC for $100 over the Titan X, quiet noise levels and 35%+ lower GPU temperatures. The anti-AIO CLC Fiji brigade is going to have to dig deep to downplay the awesomeness of this:

Finally we are starting to see NV/AMD wake up and realize the conventional blower style cooler is a thermal throttling loud mess when it comes to >= 250W TDP GPUs that cost $600+. It's about time!

Could it be NV is also preparing to go AIO CLC for flagship cooling with Pascal and HBM2 and they are using EVGA 980 Hybrid / Titan X Hybrid as test-beds? :biggrin:

Zotac also has the Artic Storm Titan X with a built in water-block and air cooling.

I'm surprised AIB partners already have custom coolers for the 980 Ti, being it is a larger chip than any before and they'll have to ensure full contact with the GPU...

It can't be that difficult since GTX780Ti was 561mm2.

You do realize that a lot of after-market open air cooled coolers for 780Ti cards already had enough surface area in place to cool down a 600mm2+ die?

(1) Zotac AMP! 780Ti's cooling plate is large enough to work with a 980Ti

(2) Asus DCU series had 2 extra unused heatpipes that could easily accommodate > 600mm2 die.

(3) Gigabyte's Windforce 3x 600W cooler has a gigantic copper cooling plate that could probably fit a 1000mm2 die under it.

It's not that hard to enlarge the cooling plate for the die when going from GTX780Ti. Even the reference Titan/Titan Black/780Ti blower already had more than enough room.

NV's decision to block after-market cooling on Titan X was a pure strategic move to allow AIBs to release faster clocked and superior versions of the Titan X at a later point in time. This would also allow NV to have 10-20% faster cards from AIBs to compete with AMD without NV having to do much of the work. It's a brilliant strategy since NV milked the early Titan X adopters and now they open the floodgates for AIBs to release better products. This is a win-win for consumers who weren't in a rush to buy the original blower Titan X.

it is scary how well marketing works at times it is almost like magic.

With the bifurcating a generation strategy, we now get screwed no matter what. Unlike the Top-to-bottom GPU launch approach where the flagship came out first, we now have to wait 8-12 months for next gen flagships. What happens is the Kepler gen's flagship (780Ti) is then released much closer to the next gen mid-range (970/980). That sets the stage for a $350-399 Pascal 970 successor to match a 980Ti in 15 months or less. Still the enthusiast PC gamers who skipped the Titan X will at least save $300 on going with a cooler and quieter after-market 980Ti. That's still good progress in just 2.5 months.

I am looking forward to 980Ti OC vs. GTX970 OC SLI comparison.

 

[n0x1ous]

I just thought of something. with the reveal of 980 wce and now titan x wce, what do the people who crapped on the idea of a 390x wce edition think now?

Im in the Pro AIO camp, but I think the argument was that it shouldnt be "reference" or there was concern there would be no air-cooled options at launch so not sure this news will change the minds of those folks.

 

[Xed]

I'd pay $749 for a 980ti classified with the hybrid cooler. More than that I'd likely wait on Pascal. Hopefully competition will be there to lower prices back towards sanity.

 

[n0x1ous]

Nice, higher boost clocks, factory warrantied AIO CLC for $100 over the Titan X, quiet noise levels and 35%+ lower GPU temperatures. The anti-AIO CLC Fiji brigade is going to have to dig deep to downplay the awesomeness of this:

Finally we are starting to see NV/AMD wake up and realize the conventional blower style cooler is a thermal throttling loud mess when it comes to >= 250W TDP GPUs that cost $600+. It's about time!

Could it be NV is also preparing to go AIO CLC for flagship cooling with Pascal and HBM2 and they are using EVGA 980 Hybrid / Titan X Hybrid as test-beds? :biggrin:

Zotac also has the Artic Storm Titan X with a built in water-block and air cooling.

Really hoping you're right and Pascal will be reference AIO. Even if they kept the same metal design as now but put an AIO on it that would be a win because its still a very attractive design, but like you have mentioned many times, it can't keep up with the temps/noise any more.

ALSO: Nice to see a backplate on this. If AIO becomes the norm we won't need to hear the argument from Nvidia that they can't put a backplate on it because they need the space for SLI for air cooling between cards.

 

[boozzer]

Im in the Pro AIO camp, but I think the argument was that it shouldnt be "reference" or there was concern there would be no air-cooled options at launch so not sure this news will change the minds of those folks.

from what I remember, it was because 390x uses so much juice it needs to be water cooled the card is so bad themal wise it needs it I wish the forum rules allows me to name names :twisted:

 

[Cloudfire777]

I'd pay $749 for a 980ti classified with the hybrid cooler. More than that I'd likely wait on Pascal. Hopefully competition will be there to lower prices back towards sanity.

Yep, thats my limit as well. But that means $649 for the card itself and $100 for the water cooling. Lets really hope the $649 MSRP is true.

Really hoping you're right and Pascal will be reference AIO. Even if they kept the same metal design as now but put an AIO on it that would be a win because its still a very attractive design, but like you have mentioned many times, it can't keep up with the temps/noise any more.

ALSO: Nice to see a backplate on this. If AIO becomes the norm we won't need to hear the argument from Nvidia that they can't put a backplate on it because they need the space for SLI for air cooling between cards.

Knowing Nvidia, they probably do the Titan X/980/980Ti/780Ti etc etc blower design again even for Pascal...lol. Im so sick of that design

from what I remember, it was because 390x uses so much juice it needs to be water cooled the card is so bad themal wise it needs it I wish the forum rules allows me to name names :twisted:

Its not confirmed right or wrong yet. We dont know if AMD use a AIO on Radeon Fury because its better than air or if the card really needs it because of high TDP. What we do know is that the card comes with 8+8 power pin, unlike R9 290X 290W TDP that comes with 6+8.
We dont know if its to support better overclocking or a power sucking, heat spewing chip either...

That is something I really want to find out about

 

[RussianSensation]

ALSO: Nice to see a backplate on this. If AIO becomes the norm we won't need to hear the argument from Nvidia that they can't put a backplate on it because they need the space for SLI for air cooling between cards.

I think NV has a better idea though of offering the 2 options - air cooled reference blower (say 980Ti/Titan X Tri-SLI or Quad-SLI systems for boutique builders/top 1% PC gamers) and also offering the AIO CLC. I just found it disappointing how certain gamers bashed AIO CLC no matter the arguments presented and insinuated that AIO CLC was 'required' for a 300W card, while most of us just wanted the extra option because we recognized situations where AIO CLC could be superior since it's simply the more efficient cooling tech. If NV has AIO CLC and reference blower Pascal 970/980/980Ti successors, AMD will still be losing a lot of sales since they still don't have a competitive blower design for 250W and below SKUs. Just because they throw AIO CLC on a Fiji Fury card doesn't mean they should stop innovating for other $100-500 GPUs when it comes to reference cooling design.

What we do know is that the card comes with 8+8 power pin, unlike R9 290X 290W TDP that comes with 6+8.
We dont know if its to support better overclocking or a power sucking, heat spewing chip either...

What would take a 20-power phase dual 8-pin GTX980Ti that gives you the option of going all out with overclocking and overvolting or a 6-power phase 6-pin + 8-pin 980Ti?

I know what I would take if I was in a position to buy a $700+ flagship today.

http://www.techpowerup.com/197149/msi-gtx-780-ti-lightning-pictured-overclocked-and-tested.html

Just because a card has dual 8-pin connectors, doesn't always mean it's using > 300W of power. It could just mean it was built for overclockers in mind to give them the option to push it to the limits if they wanted to.

EVGA Classified 980

There are a certain high-end group of PC gamers who buy Classified, MSI Lightning, Asus Matrix, Galax HOF, Kingpin edition cards and they definitely wouldn't want a card that's power limited when overclocking.

 

[xthetenth]

With some of the cases out there, I'd still very strongly consider something like 3x AIO and 1x aftermarket open cooler for a quadfire/quad-sli build with a single 140mm rad CPU exhaust. Three 120mm rads isn't hard to fit in cases a fraction of the cards' cost like the Phanteks Enthoo Luxe with room for three 140mm rads up top, and the bottom card has enough free room that it can get enough air that an open cooler is a better choice.

I wonder if 2x cards will start having 140mm rads.

 

[Ranulf]

I dunno. 250w TDP on that 980ti... performance per watt just isn't too good or green thinking compared to the 980's 165w.

 

[RussianSensation]

With some of the cases out there, I'd still very strongly consider something like 3x AIO and 1x aftermarket open cooler for a quadfire/quad-sli build with a single 140mm rad CPU exhaust. Three 120mm rads isn't hard to fit in cases a fraction of the cards' cost like the Phanteks Enthoo Luxe with room for three 140mm rads up top, and the bottom card has enough free room that it can get enough air that an open cooler is a better choice.

I wonder if 2x cards will start having 140mm rads.

Not specifically for your needs, but Fractal Design S looks like it could fit triple 120mm AIO CLC GPUs for $79! The market is adopting to the needs of enthusiast PC gamers. I am just amazed how long it took given how fast AIO CLC on CPUs took off, but ironically AIO CLCs benefit GPUs more than CPUs.

 

[ocre]

With these kind of prices, I'm seriously contemplating with giving up on PC gaming. As someone else mentioned earlier, my salary isn't increasing at the rate these graphics cards are costing.

I guess you could throw your hands up and walk away from PC gaming. There are cars getting are more expensive too, guess the only thing to do here is quit driving. Or...........

Just dont buy cards you cant afford.
There are plenty of options right now, in any price range. You do not have to spend 600, 700, 800, or 1000$. It seems strange to me that you dont know this. Also, since CPUs have barely improved over the years especially in gaming, its probably one of the best times ever for PC gamers.

The best times ever!!!

We see, right on this forum and all over the place, people gaming on CPUs and platforms 5 years and older. It is actually quite common. CPUs from 2011 are not only capable but provide amassing performance even compared to new CPUs.
If you know anything about PC gaming in the past, this is so unusual. You had to upgrade your entire system every couple years.

PC gaming has never been more attractive. That is probably why it is so large today. Yes, the PC gaming market is actually massive. But eventually, if you chose PC, you may want/have to upgrade, For most people today, that means a more powerful GPU. Boom....and done.

This is a great time, we used to have to build a completely new PC ever 3 years. Today, a component. You get to pick what you want to put in your PC. Dont spend what you cant afford. There are cards at every price point.


Then there are used cards. I mean, killer deals on used HW. A thrifty person can build a very capable PC gaming machine with a few hundred bucks. Never before has there been a better time for PC gaming

 

[xthetenth]

Not specifically for your needs, but Fractal Design S looks like it could fit triple 120mm AIO CLC GPUs for $79! The market is adopting to the needs of enthusiast PC gamers. I am just amazed how long it took given how fast AIO CLC on CPUs took off, but ironically AIO CLCs benefit GPUs more than CPUs.

I thought of the Phanteks first because that's what my computer's in. Their Enthoo Pro is a $99 option that has similar top support so you're not limited to one case if one offends your sensibilities. Recent case designs are really executing on providing plenty of room for a rad-heavy design, so AIO loops should be infringing on blower terrain from top to bottom.

 

[moonbogg]

Its funny how that $1,100.00 EVGA titan hybrid just looks like a regular old video card that's EXTREMELY overpriced! Without that fancy metal blower attached, it certainly loses that Mercedes Benz appeal.

 

[manimal]

Its funny how that $1,100.00 EVGA titan hybrid just looks like a regular old video card that's EXTREMELY overpriced! Without that fancy metal blower attached, it certainly loses that Mercedes Benz appeal.

yup


Does anyone know how many titans have sold or close to? I really wonder how big that segment really is.


I wonder how long consumers will keep thinking about NV favorably after getting the shaft in 7 series then the shaft from the first titan then the shaft from the 970 memory nerf and you have a majority of the markethshare pissed off at NV.

Whats crazy is consumers after getting the shaft repeatedly keep going back for more.




[Nope]

Warning issued for inappropriate language.

-Rvenger

 

[happy medium]

never mind

 

[waldoh]

Unfortunately going AMD means lack of driver updates, higher temps and power and general lack of refinement. AMDs shoe string budget really shows.

I once went AMD back when Catalyst was new... never again. The worst driver experience I have ever had.

Even though I am firmly in the nVidia camp, I will never pay $1k for a titan, or $800 (possibly) for a 980 ti when the next generation $500 card will match the performance for half.

yup


Does anyone know how many titans have sold or close to? I really wonder how big that segment really is.


I wonder how long consumers will keep thinking about NV favorably after getting the shaft in 7 series then the shaft from the first titan then the shaft from the 970 memory nerf and you have a majority of the markethshare pissed off at NV.

Whats crazy is consumers after getting the shaft repeatedly keep going back for more.




I bought used this gen to say FU to NV.

 

[moonbogg]

Unfortunately going AMD means lack of driver updates, higher temps and power and general lack of refinement. AMDs shoe string budget really shows.

I once went AMD back when Catalyst was new... never again. The worst driver experience I have ever had.

Even though I am firmly in the nVidia camp, I will never pay $1k for a titan, or $800 (possibly) for a 980 ti when the next generation $500 card will match the performance for half.

The cost is far too high for such short lived performance. I will say though, if GPUs lasted nearly as long as CPUs currently last, I would have much less of an issue spending such a high price. I would pay it if that were the case, but these are turning into 18 month throw away products.

 

[Headfoot]

Unfortunately going AMD means lack of driver updates

Oh you mean like the driver update that came out this week?

 

[tviceman]

Unfortunately going AMD means lack of driver updates, higher temps and power and general lack of refinement. AMDs shoe string budget really shows.

I once went AMD back when Catalyst was new... never again. The worst driver experience I have ever had.

Even though I am firmly in the nVidia camp, I will never pay $1k for a titan, or $800 (possibly) for a 980 ti when the next generation $500 card will match the performance for half.

I won't spend more than $600 next gen, and I won't buy unless I get stock performance 2x better perf than the 980 at 980's TDP.

I will go with the first company that can match all 3 criteria.