Launch date for GTX 480/470 March 26

[konakona]

I remember 8500 being a rather decent card back in the days after several driver updates, so I can't really agree with ATi sucking the whole time before the arrival of 9700pro. You are also forgetting R100 which put the new ATi on the map, so to speak. The LE version was a fantastic deal back then, without any real competitors in the price range.

 

[Fox5]

I remember 8500 being a rather decent card back in the days after several driver updates, so I can't really agree with ATi sucking the whole time before the arrival of 9700pro. You are also forgetting R100 which put the new ATi on the map, so to speak. The LE version was a fantastic deal back then, without any real competitors in the price range.

R100 and R200 (radeon and radeon 8500) were good hardware, but ATI's drivers were a mess back then.
I'm sure ATI's drivers weren't perfect by the time of the 9700 pro either, but the hardware was so amazing (and the first dx9 hardware and years before nvidia had worthy dx9 hardware) that it didn't matter as much. Prior to the r300, I feel like ati's drivers were on par with intel's.

That was one of nvidia's strengths back in the day though, they were the first company to realize the importance of a solid driver development team, on top of frequently updated hardware. None of the OpenGL ICD stuff, or community drivers that outperformed and outfeatured the official drivers, or games that just wouldn't play correctly without a driver update 6 months after the game came out.

 

[Qbah]

Hmm... Launch prices? :hmm: Listed for pre-purchase:

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-175-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-1gb-gddr5-pci-express-x16-retail.aspx
http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-2gb-gddr5-pci-express-x16-retail.aspx

$479 and $679 for those not wanting to click.

 

[fleshconsumed]

If that is actual MSRP I don't think ATI has much to worry about. It's GT200 vs 48xx deja vu.

 

[evolucion8]

The X850XT was faster than the 6800 Ultra but not by a whole lot. The X1800XT was late to the game but faster than the 7800GTX (the version available to consumers). The X1900XT was similarly faster than the 7900GTX. The 2900XT failed miserably against the stellar G80 and the 3800 series was rather mediocre.

IMO ATI started going downhill with the R600 and then redeemed themselves with the R700 cards. So closer to 2 years of disappointment.

The X850XT was considerably faster than the 6800 Ultra, specially with the latest DX9 games of that time and with high resolutions with anti aliasing, up to 30%. In OpenGL it was another story. The HD 3800 series was mediocre, their anti aliasing performance was pathettic and sickening, but considering its price point, I think that they did better than I expected.

 

[zerocool84]

Hmm... Launch prices? :hmm: Listed for pre-purchase:

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-175-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-1gb-gddr5-pci-express-x16-retail.aspx
http://www.sabrepc.com/p-174-nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-2gb-gddr5-pci-express-x16-retail.aspx

$479 and $679 for those not wanting to click.

I'm not believing any of those sites. All of them list different prices.

 

[SHAQ]

Hopefully the prices are correct which means it will be fast. Since they are late to market they can't overprice it compared to its performance.

I like these benchmarks but they look WAY too good to be true.

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.php/pc-hardware/6-gpu/8-fermi?start=1

 

[bryanW1995]

don't click on that stupid sabrepc link, it's been around the block more times than my 9th grade girlfriend. their specs are all wrong, it's completely made up, as apoppin said the other day "you'll know that it's legit if nvidia forces them to take it down". Well, it's been there for days and it's bs. Is it possible that nvidia ends up pricing the cards in that range? sure, it's possible, but I don't think that JHH even knows where they're going to price the cards yet.

 

[evolucion8]

Hopefully the prices are correct which means it will be fast. Since they are late to market they can't overprice it compared to its performance.

I like these benchmarks but they look WAY too good to be true.

http://electronika.vacau.com/index.php/pc-hardware/6-gpu/8-fermi?start=1

Those charts are very ridiculous, the HD 5870 is barely faster than the GTX 285 which is pathettic, the HD 5870 is only 5% slower than the GTX 295.

 

[mgon154]

Am I the only one (stupid enough) to buy two 480's at $700? I can't complain I just hope they're worth every penny. I wonder how two 480's will scale together. These cards are built differently from the ground up so that makes me curious to see how they can scale together. I can't believe March 26th is what they've finally told the public. I've been without a card for so long (ever since I spilled mountaindew on my GTX 295 heh) and I dont know how long I can wait. I'm one of those who stick to their guns, but for once in my life I've actually considered a 5970! (I had to slap myself)

If the 5970 is going to be faster than the 480 then thats crud! I refuse to believe that. From the sound of things, and the way NVIDIA is hyping thier 'fermi' as if its the fastest peice of eq in the universe, then it better darn perform that way. If the 480 releases and its not at least %8 faster than the 5970 then I'll feel screwed. In the worst case senario, if TWO 480's arent faster than a 5970 then I'm done with NVIDA untill they beef up their new toys.

 

[zerocool84]

Am I the only one (stupid enough) to buy two 480's at $700? I can't complain I just hope they're worth every penny. I wonder how two 480's will scale together. These cards are built differently from the ground up so that makes me curious to see how they can scale together. I can't believe March 26th is what they've finally told the public. I've been without a card for so long (ever since I spilled mountaindew on my GTX 295 heh) and I dont know how long I can wait. I'm one of those who stick to their guns, but for once in my life I've actually considered a 5970! (I had to slap myself)

If the 5970 is going to be faster than the 480 then thats crud! I refuse to believe that. From the sound of things, and the way NVIDIA is hyping thier 'fermi' as if its the fastest peice of eq in the universe, then it better darn perform that way. If the 480 releases and its not at least %8 faster than the 5970 then I'll feel screwed. In the worst case senario, if TWO 480's arent faster than a 5970 then I'm done with NVIDA untill they beef up their new toys.

Well you sound like you've already made up your mind and going to stay with Nvidia. I got sick of of waiting and the renaming game. There's no reason for anyone right now to say they are going two 480's cus there's no REAL reviews released yet for anything. I'm waiting until a real review site like Anandtech gets ahold of them since they're one of the few that doesn't feed into the Physx/Cuda hype and tells it how it is.

 

[mgon154]

Well you sound like you've already made up your mind and going to stay with Nvidia. I got sick of of waiting and the renaming game. There's no reason for anyone right now to say they are going two 480's cus there's no REAL reviews released yet for anything. I'm waiting until a real review site like Anandtech gets ahold of them since they're one of the few that doesn't feed into the Physx/Cuda hype and tells it how it is.

As far as no real reviews go, that was a risk I was willing to take because I'm trying so hard to trust NVIDIA that all their hype is the truth over their new toy without blinding myself. The only way I'd switch over is if Fermi is really THAT much slower than a 5970. I can't imagine a cheap (the good kind of cheap) and simple 5970 with older architecture being any faster than a (really expensive and hyped) Fermi GPU. Can you imagine how embarrasing that could be for NVIDIA? The only things stopping me from getting a 5970 is that it's not a good idea to stick two in crossfire mode as I hear that hiners performance more than anything. Besides these GPU's are suppose to be next-gen and I didn't think the 5970 truly achieved the "next-gen" catagory. The Firmi's are "suppose" to be next-gen but we'll see. If the 480 is nearly as fast or faster than a 5970 and its only a single GPU, then I just imagine how nice it may be if you stick two 480's together making it only two GPU's to scale. Besides I have saved up so many tools for NVIDIA, so many things I downloaded thats from NVIDA. Yes I do prefer NVIDIA over ATI anyday but I'm not going to jip myself either. If something is cleary faster I'll go for that without a question of the doubt. NVIDIA cards just run smoother for me.

 

[Grooveriding]

As far as no real reviews go, that was a risk I was willing to take because I'm trying so hard to trust NVIDIA that all their hype is the truth over their new toy without blinding myself. The only way I'd switch over is if Fermi is really THAT much slower than a 5970. I can't imagine a cheap (the good kind of cheap) and simple 5970 with older architecture being any faster than a (really expensive and hyped) Fermi GPU. Can you imagine how embarrasing that could be for NVIDIA? The only things stopping me from getting a 5970 is that it's not a good idea to stick two in crossfire mode as I hear that hiners performance more than anything. Besides these GPU's are suppose to be next-gen and I didn't think the 5970 truly achieved the "next-gen" catagory. The Firmi's are "suppose" to be next-gen but we'll see. If the 480 is nearly as fast or faster than a 5970 and its only a single GPU, then I just imagine how nice it may be if you stick two 480's together making it only two GPU's to scale. Besides I have saved up so many tools for NVIDIA, so many things I downloaded thats from NVIDA. Yes I do prefer NVIDIA over ATI anyday but I'm not going to jip myself either. If something is cleary faster I'll go for that without a question of the doubt. NVIDIA cards just run smoother for me.

I'm curious to know how many people believe that Fermi will be faster than a 5970 ????!?

 

[badb0y]

Am I the only one (stupid enough) to buy two 480's at $700? I can't complain I just hope they're worth every penny. I wonder how two 480's will scale together. These cards are built differently from the ground up so that makes me curious to see how they can scale together. I can't believe March 26th is what they've finally told the public. I've been without a card for so long (ever since I spilled mountaindew on my GTX 295 heh) and I dont know how long I can wait. I'm one of those who stick to their guns, but for once in my life I've actually considered a 5970! (I had to slap myself)

If the 5970 is going to be faster than the 480 then thats crud! I refuse to believe that. From the sound of things, and the way NVIDIA is hyping thier 'fermi' as if its the fastest peice of eq in the universe, then it better darn perform that way. If the 480 releases and its not at least %8 faster than the 5970 then I'll feel screwed. In the worst case senario, if TWO 480's arent faster than a 5970 then I'm done with NVIDA untill they beef up their new toys.

GTX 480 will not be faster then the 5970. At the very best it might match it in performance.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally Posted by badb0y

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgon154 View Post
Am I the only one (stupid enough) to buy two 480's at $700? I can't complain I just hope they're worth every penny. I wonder how two 480's will scale together. These cards are built differently from the ground up so that makes me curious to see how they can scale together. I can't believe March 26th is what they've finally told the public. I've been without a card for so long (ever since I spilled mountaindew on my GTX 295 heh) and I dont know how long I can wait. I'm one of those who stick to their guns, but for once in my life I've actually considered a 5970! (I had to slap myself)

If the 5970 is going to be faster than the 480 then thats crud! I refuse to believe that. From the sound of things, and the way NVIDIA is hyping thier 'fermi' as if its the fastest peice of eq in the universe, then it better darn perform that way. If the 480 releases and its not at least %8 faster than the 5970 then I'll feel screwed. In the worst case senario, if TWO 480's arent faster than a 5970 then I'm done with NVIDA untill they beef up their new toys.

GTX 480 will not be faster then the 5970. At the very best it might match it in performance.

Source? Neither you, nor I, know that. I have my doubts as well, but have no idea where performance of GTX470/480 will land.[/quote]

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Did they? From what I know, their last absolutely awesome, rock-the-pants-off-NVidia GPU was the 9800, that was in 2002(?), and then AMD started doing better again in 2007 with the 3870 and 3870X2, and came back spectacularly in 2008 with the 4870. So not really 10 years, closer to 6. Of course, I'm clueless about what happened in between RV300 and RV600, so if something awesome happened for ATI then I don't know about it.

The X850XT was faster than the 6800 Ultra but not by a whole lot. The X1800XT was late to the game but faster than the 7800GTX (the version available to consumers). The X1900XT was similarly faster than the 7900GTX. The 2900XT failed miserably against the stellar G80 and the 3800 series was rather mediocre.

IMO ATI started going downhill with the R600 and then redeemed themselves with the R700 cards. So closer to 2 years of disappointment.

The X850XT was considerably faster than the 6800 Ultra, specially with the latest DX9 games of that time and with high resolutions with anti aliasing, up to 30%. In OpenGL it was another story. The HD 3800 series was mediocre, their anti aliasing performance was pathettic and sickening, but considering its price point, I think that they did better than I expected.

It doesn't really matter that the X800/X850 or X1800/X1900 might have been faster or at least competitive, they suffered from flaws such as lacking features (SM2.0 for the X800s vs. the GF6's SM3.0) or the fact that the X1800 was pretty late to the game. It also didn't help that ATI was well behind in multi GPU support during those generations.

Really, we honestly haven't seen a time where ATI was as hot as they are now since the Radeon 9700/9800 days.

 

[v8envy]

Source? Neither you, nor I, know that. I have my doubts as well, but have no idea where performance of GTX470/480 will land.

[/QUOTE]

You know damn well nobody who has these cards in hands is going to be quotable as a source.

However, looking at only a 50% larger transistor budget compared to the 5870 combined with a 25% lower clock rate and design goal of GPGPU over gaming strongly implies the miracle of double the general game performance is near impossible without violating laws of physics. There is only one place where that's happening; and that's a tesselation-only benchmark

 

[Xarick]

OMG this pisses me off. I have been waiting for an nvidia card (sorry, but I like that whole physx thing) and am running an 8800 320 at 1920x1080. So now I am in a wait another month or two or jump and get an ATI 5850.

 

[Keysplayr]

You know damn well nobody who has these cards in hands is going to be quotable as a source.

However, looking at only a 50% larger transistor budget compared to the 5870 combined with a 25% lower clock rate and design goal of GPGPU over gaming strongly implies the miracle of double the general game performance is near impossible without violating laws of physics. There is only one place where that's happening; and that's a tesselation-only benchmark

You're saying he is getting that info from somebody who has a card?
25% lower clock? How do you know what the clocks are?
What laws of physics would you be referring to? Honestly dude, you have no idea.
The only thing we DO know, and that you mentioned, is it's 50% more transistors. That's
about it. And straighten me out here.. Is tesselation a big deal? Or not such a big deal?

 

[GaiaHunter]

And straighten me out here.. Is tesselation a big deal? Or not such a big deal?

Nobody questions the importance of tesselation, just if the benchmark relates into real word gaming.

And you know it very well.

 

[dguy6789]

Source? Neither you, nor I, know that. I have my doubts as well, but have no idea where performance of GTX470/480 will land.

It is far more reasonable to think the GTX 480 will be slower than the 5970 than not. There's never been a single card in history(not even going from the Radeon 8500 to the 9700) that had as much of a performance improvement over the previous gen as the GTX 480 would need over the 285 to be faster than the 5970, that kind of increase has never been even remotely approached.

 

[SlowSpyder]

As far as no real reviews go, that was a risk I was willing to take because I'm trying so hard to trust NVIDIA that all their hype is the truth over their new toy without blinding myself. The only way I'd switch over is if Fermi is really THAT much slower than a 5970. I can't imagine a cheap (the good kind of cheap) and simple 5970 with older architecture being any faster than a (really expensive and hyped) Fermi GPU. Can you imagine how embarrasing that could be for NVIDIA? The only things stopping me from getting a 5970 is that it's not a good idea to stick two in crossfire mode as I hear that hiners performance more than anything. Besides these GPU's are suppose to be next-gen and I didn't think the 5970 truly achieved the "next-gen" catagory. The Firmi's are "suppose" to be next-gen but we'll see. If the 480 is nearly as fast or faster than a 5970 and its only a single GPU, then I just imagine how nice it may be if you stick two 480's together making it only two GPU's to scale. Besides I have saved up so many tools for NVIDIA, so many things I downloaded thats from NVIDA. Yes I do prefer NVIDIA over ATI anyday but I'm not going to jip myself either. If something is cleary faster I'll go for that without a question of the doubt. NVIDIA cards just run smoother for me.

What qualifies as next gen? You know a video card that exists only on paper right now runs smoother than a video card you've never used? If you like Nvidia and want to use them, I don't think anyone has a problem with that. But I just don't get the some of the other things you said. Also, this is just my gut feeling, I don't see Fermi based parts being plentiful at launch. If I were you I'd be ready with Newegg (or your other favorite etailer) up the second of launch if you want to get one... again, just my gut feeling. I bet they are going to be hard to come by.

Does anyone know, will we see reviews before Fermi's launch? When can reviews be published? I thought I saw somewhere that NDA for reviews lifts after the launch? That seems odd if true, but I'm thinking I must have seen something wrong?

 

[Keysplayr]

dp

 

[Keysplayr]

You know what? Nevermind.

 

[blanketyblank]

Even using the Nvidia benchmarks shown to hardware canucks for far cry 2 we see the 480 is not at the level of a 5970. Granted that could change, but I find it more likely that this is a best case scenario and a benchmark the card excels at. A smart company does not show off where it card performs poorly. So we have 84.2 average versus something like 137.3.
Unless the card has improved significantly in that time I don't believe it can be faster than a 5970.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...idia-s-geforce-gf100-under-microscope-13.html


http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_5970_CrossFire/11.html