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Late 6970?

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Genx87 said:
Why? Nvidia will still have the performance crown until AMD decides to take GPGPU seriously.
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This statement is short sighted. AMD is going to continue to have tighter and tighter GPU/CPU integration. As this process moves along, Nvidia will more and more be the outside man looking in. They will be relegated to expensive, specialized applications. Without the ability to run general purpose code, Nvidia is backed into a corner.
 
AnandThenMan said:
This statement is short sighted. AMD is going to continue to have tighter and tighter GPU/CPU integration. As this process moves along, Nvidia will more and more be the outside man looking in. They will be relegated to expensive, specialized applications. Without the ability to run general purpose code, Nvidia is backed into a corner.
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GPGPU on sub 100 dollar chipsets. Sure that will top the performance charts. Are you under the impression GPGPU will run an OS?
 
To those would thinks Nvidia has nothing to worry about (all 3 graphics vendor, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have stuff to worry about btw). I leave you a few words: Creative SoundBlaster.
 
Just because sound boards moved onboard, and now some % of the grafics cards are gonna doesnt mean Nvidia will go the same way as creative soundblaster.

It just means nvidia will have less market share in the low-mid end of grafics cards cards in the future.

Maybe nvidia figour out how to make those Small GPUs for mobile phones work better? Maybe they come up with something revolutionary for proffessional grafics cards instead. ect ect.
 
cotak13 said:
To those would thinks Nvidia has nothing to worry about (all 3 graphics vendor, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have stuff to worry about btw). I leave you a few words: Creative SoundBlaster.
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If you gave me two computers and let me game on them I probably couldn't tell you which one had the sound card and which one had onboard.

I could certainly tell you which one had the onboard video.
 
Aristotelian said:
Absolutely not. This:



Was a direct response to this, from me:



So (as I labelled your claims in your post):

1) I did not misread your post: it was a direct response to mine. T2K did not even mention CPU manufacturing in his post, I did, and you brought up manufacturing in your response. Please read posts (including your own) more carefully.

2) I never claimed that you said AMD or Nvidia were going to die. Do not straw man what I've argued.

3) You need to look up the definition of counterfactual. It is you who has not properly understood my post.

@T2K: I don't want to get into it here, but let's just say that I see Nvidia surviving for a while, even if the company has to penetrate some other, but related, markets.
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I know what counterfactual means thanks.

and the reason I made the statement about amd or nv die is because I never understood why you even wrote this.

Aristotelian said:
And there's nothing your posts can do about that, sorry.
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Like I have some kind of agenda.
 
WelshBloke said:
If you gave me two computers and let me game on them I probably couldn't tell you which one had the sound card and which one had onboard.

I could certainly tell you which one had the onboard video.
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10 years ago? I could immediately tell which had worse sound...
 
WelshBloke said:
If you gave me two computers and let me game on them I probably couldn't tell you which one had the sound card and which one had onboard.

I could certainly tell you which one had the onboard video.
Click to expand...


That might not be the case in the future...
You *might* not be able to tell a 450 from a Llano (performance wise)... once its out (abit optimistic maybe).

It ll (Llano) be that *free* card that came with the cpu... vs buying a 450 for 110$ on newegg.

The Llano will use much less power, wont have any fan noise (cpu fan only).. compaired to a discrete card.
 
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Arkadrel said:
Just because sound boards moved onboard, and now some % of the grafics cards are gonna doesnt mean Nvidia will go the same way as creative soundblaster.

It just means nvidia will have less market share in the low-mid end of grafics cards cards in the future.

Maybe nvidia figour out how to make those Small GPUs for mobile phones work better? Maybe they come up with something revolutionary for proffessional grafics cards instead. ect ect.
Click to expand...

You guys don't seem to understand: making GPUs requires a LOT OF R&D MONEY, in cold, hard CASH ON HAND.

Without low/mid/mobile segments you have no revenue to support your R&D which in turn will immediately reduce your competitiveness.
 
Genx87 said:
/shake head

Nvidia has and always was going to be doing specialized applications with GPGPU. The idea Fusion changes this is simply absurd.
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Again, short term thinking. It doesn't change overnight, but it will happen. Think 5 years from now, a CPU as we know it will no longer exist. Nvidia will have to settle for catering to specialized solutions, this will always have a market. But that market will be shrinking/niche and increasingly high end.

I am certain Nvidia knows this, what they do about it is another matter.
 
Arkadrel said:
That might not be the case in the future...
You *might* not be able to tell a 5570/450 from a Llano (performance wise)... once its out.

It ll (Llano) be that *free* card that came with the cpu... vs buying a 450 for 110$ on newegg.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The point is that things are moving very fast now, it won't take 10 years but rather 2-3 to move low-mid performance GPUs and CPUs into APUs.
 
T2k said:
You guys don't seem to understand: making GPUs requires a LOT OF R&D MONEY, in cold, hard CASH ON HAND.

Without low/mid/mobile segments you have no revenue to support your R&D which in turn will immediately reduce your competitiveness.
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This is very very true. And it applies to other industries as well.
 
T2k said:
10 years ago? I could immediately tell which had worse sound...
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So what? In ten years onboard video may approach cards of today? Is that what your saying?

Arkadrel said:
That might not be the case in the future...
You *might* not be able to tell a 5570/450 from a Llano (performance wise)... once its out.

It ll (Llano) be that *free* card that came with the cpu... vs buying a 450 for 110$ on newegg.

The Llano will use much less power, wont have any fan noise (cpu fan only).. compaired to a discrete card.
Click to expand...

I dont want to game with a 5570/450 now or in the future.
 
Makaveli said:
I know what counterfactual means thanks.

and the reason I made the statement about amd or nv die is because I never understood why you even wrote this.



Like I have some kind of agenda.
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1) You talked about their (Nvidia or AMD) potentially failing before I wrote what you quoted.

2) You brought up the topic of companies and profitability in a thread meant to discuss the supposed lateness of the 6970.

Let me help you remember, okay? Charitable act for the day with respect to reading comprehension:

Makaveli said:
One thing you guys need to remember it Nvidia is a profitable Company, AMD is not.

They still operate under massive debt and in the red.

If anyone is allowed to fail and still survive it would be Nvidia not AMD they have way more cash in hand!
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That was:

1) Your first post in this thread.
2) An attempt to counteract T2K's claim regarding Nvidia's dwindling revenues. (I understand this)
3) Your subsequent counterfactual made no sense, and you brought up the companies failing prior to my having mentioned it! So don't say you brought it up to address me! I, in fact, was addressing your meaningless counterfactual! Here it is:

"If anyone is allowed to fail and still survive it would be Nvidia not AMD they have way more cash in hand!"

My 'sorry' did not entail your having an agenda, but rather that you're seeing AMD in a negative light. The 'sorry' was for 'bursting your bubble', not for, as you might think, supporting Nvidia.

And with respect to the lateness of the 6970, either post an official announcement from AMD saying that the card was meant to ship on X, but won't, or think twice about declaring a product that was not promised by X to be 'late'. Or is 'late' presumed because the 580 is out? It's unclear, to me.
 
WelshBloke said:
So what? In ten years onboard video may approach cards of today? Is that what your saying?



I dont want to game with a 5570/450 now or in the future.
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You don't but hell of a lot of people do.

Lets take a parallel example.

Why is the US running a trade deficit against China?

It is because the US doesn't have stuff the Chinese wants to buy al la the cause of the opium wars? No.

It is because what the US has to sell to the Chinese is expensive and only small number of them can afford (talk about currency manipulation aside)? Pretty likely.

China's not fueling it's extremely fast economic growth by selling low volume of expensive goods. No, China's making it's billions by selling coat hangers at 50 cents a piece and shirts at 20 dollars a pop.

Almost without exception you make more money selling many cheap things than a few expensive ones.
 
AnandThenMan said:
Again, short term thinking. It doesn't change overnight, but it will happen. Think 5 years from now, a CPU as we know it will no longer exist. Nvidia will have to settle for catering to specialized solutions, this will always have a market. But that market will be shrinking/niche and increasingly high end.

I am certain Nvidia knows this, what they do about it is another matter.
Click to expand...

They already cater to special solutions. So what is your point? AMD will have a low performing APU that runs an OS. Nvidia will have a high performing GPGPU that runs specialized applications. Just like how it is today, except in 5 years.
 
cotak13 said:
You don't but hell of a lot of people do.

Lets take a parallel example.

Why is the US running a trade deficit against China?

It is because the US doesn't have stuff the Chinese wants to buy al la the cause of the opium wars? No.

It is because what the US has to sell to the Chinese is expensive and only small number of them can afford (talk about currency manipulation aside)? Pretty likely.

China's not fueling it's extremely fast economic growth by selling low volume of expensive goods. No, China's making it's billions by selling coat hangers at 50 cents a piece and shirts at 20 dollars a pop.

Almost without exception you make more money selling many cheap things than a few expensive ones.
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Um, ok. I'm convinced onboard video is the way to go for me. :thumbsup:
 
T2k said:
So what? It's not out, no info, it's fun to discuss these things. Skip it if you don't like it.
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It is.... In a thread where its relevant, you know, like the CPU sub-forum or a whole new thread. how did a thread about the 6970 being late turn into a thread about APUs? Seriously?

I can see that in a thread about maybe a 6300 or GT430 where these cards might be replaced in the near future by APUs, but this is waaaay of topic.

Doen't matter, its too late for this thread anyway.
 
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