Lasers could make virtual particles real

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Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
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Next-generation lasers will have the power to create matter by capturing ghostly particles that, according to quantum mechanics, permeate seemingly empty space.
The uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics implies that space can never be truly empty. Instead, random fluctuations give birth to a seething cauldron of particles, such as electrons, and their antimatter counterparts, called positrons.
These so-called "virtual particles" normally annihilate one another too quickly for us to notice them. But physicists predicted in the 1930s that a very strong electric field would transform virtual particles into real ones that we can observe. The field pushes them in opposite directions because they have opposite electric charges, separating them so that they cannot destroy one another.
Lasers are ideally suited to this task because their light boasts strong electric fields. In 1997, physicists at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) in Menlo Park, California, used laser light to create a few electron-positron pairs. Now, new calculations suggest next-generation lasers will be able to create such pairs by the millions.
Chain reaction

In the SLAC experiment, only one electron-positron pair was created at a time. But with more powerful lasers, a chain reaction becomes probable.
The first pair is accelerated to high speed by the laser, causing them to emit light. This light, combined with that of the laser, spawns still more pairs, say Alexander Fedotov of the National Research Nuclear University in Moscow and colleagues in a study to appear in Physical Review Letters.
"A large number of particles will spill out of the vacuum," says John Kirk of the Max Planck Institute for Nuclear Physics in Heidelberg, Germany, who was not involved in the study.
In lasers that can concentrate about 1026 watts into a square centimetre, this runaway reaction should efficiently convert the laser's light into millions of electron-positron pairs, the team calculates.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19327-lasers-could-make-virtual-particles-real.html
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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wonder if they could harness the energy out of this.


would be amazing to get a practical amount of energy out of thin air.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
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wonder if they could harness the energy out of this.


would be amazing to get a practical amount of energy out of thin air.

It isn't creating energy, it's the exact opposite. The article, despite it's rather sensationlist headline, is talking about basic relativistic physics. Energy and mass are interchangeable which we already know from nuclear decay. What they are talking about is that we now may be able to create lasers so powerful that the photons will decay into a particle and anti-particle pair. This creates a problem because it saps the energy out of the laser. If there is a cascade of particle pair productions, then we can no longer pump energy into the laser light as it just ends up being dumped into a creation of a particle pair.
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
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Virtual particles appear to be "something from nothing", but it doesn't cause anything screwy to happen within our universe because they annihilate themselves and go back to being "nothing". If this technology works, we will have something coming into existence from nothing...then STAYING something (a regular particle)...which would seem to violate the first law.
 

Pheran

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2001
5,740
35
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Virtual particles appear to be "something from nothing", but it doesn't cause anything screwy to happen within our universe because they annihilate themselves and go back to being "nothing". If this technology works, we will have something coming into existence from nothing...then STAYING something (a regular particle)...which would seem to violate the first law.

Wrong, this is just a case of converting energy into matter. E=mc^2
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
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hmm..The article made it sound like the virtual particles would somehow be "trapped" in our universe by the laser..not that the laser energy was actually transforming into matter.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
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It isn't creating energy, it's the exact opposite. The article, despite it's rather sensationlist headline, is talking about basic relativistic physics. Energy and mass are interchangeable which we already know from nuclear decay. What they are talking about is that we now may be able to create lasers so powerful that the photons will decay into a particle and anti-particle pair. This creates a problem because it saps the energy out of the laser. If there is a cascade of particle pair productions, then we can no longer pump energy into the laser light as it just ends up being dumped into a creation of a particle pair.

I could be completely wrong here, but I think you're not interpreting the article correctly.
 

Arcadio

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2007
5,637
24
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Can we please stop trying to destroy the Universe with all these weird experiments.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
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81
I could be completely wrong here, but I think you're not interpreting the article correctly.
He's interpreting it correctly. However, I wouldn't call it "decay". It's the exact opposite of decay. EM energy is being elevated or condensed into matter.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,862
995
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I could be completely wrong here, but I think you're not interpreting the article correctly.

it's the last sentence of the article.

In lasers that can concentrate about 1026 watts into a square centimetre, this runaway reaction should efficiently convert the laser's light into millions of electron-positron pairs, the team calculates.

How is conservation of mass maintained? How many photons does it take to make up the mass of an electron?
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
it's the last sentence of the article.



How is conservation of mass maintained? How many photons does it take to make up the mass of an electron?

Ithe conservation of energy through the interconversion between mass and energy (if that makes sense). The two are linked.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
it's the last sentence of the article.



How is conservation of mass maintained? How many photons does it take to make up the mass of an electron?

It is maintained in the simple e=mc^2 way. Photons have varying energy depending on wavelength.

c = 299792458
wave length of blue photon = 400nm
mass of electron = 9.11E-31kg
planck's constant h = 6.63E-34


m*c^2*2/(c/w*h) = 330000 blue photons to make 1 electron/positron pair.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
hmm..The article made it sound like the virtual particles would somehow be "trapped" in our universe by the laser..not that the laser energy was actually transforming into matter.

Yeah, this is why I hate the title. A virtual particle is a particle that pops out of the vacuum due to the energy fluctuations of the vacuum state. The vacuum can, momentarily, have enough energy to create a particle. Since the energy is just a fluctuation, this requires that the created particle return to the vacuum after a very very brief moment in time. The article, however, is talking about exciting the system above the vacuum state to a point where we have enough energy that we can create a particle. This is completely different and allows the particle to persist in time.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
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Why do you always post fud? You know that this is just sensationalist media but you write a whole damn article about it anyways. Kinda like when people talking about CERN and traveling in time to the big bang. News flash. You can't fucking travel back in time buddy.
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
o_O. Does this mean we'll be able to actually replicate the annoying orange?!?! :D
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
I skimmed through the article, but it references a few "famous" experiments with which I'm not familiar.

After skimming through that article, it's clear that the laser field is broken down by these interactions. However, it's not clear whether the mass of the electron-positron pairs came from the vacuum energy or from the photon energy.