Lance Armstrong charged for doping by USADA

[freegeeks]

Yeah it's not for nothing they called Riis "Mister 60%" (referring to his hematocrit). He was going to win that tour or literally die trying from a clot.

LOL, I read some stories that Riis had to be waken up in the night during competition because he needed to go on his rollers for 30 minutes because they were afraid that he would die from a heart attack

People should read the book "Breaking The Chain" from Willy Voet to have an idea what was going on in procycling in the 90's

 

[EagleKeeper]

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/usada-charges-lance-doping

So, do you think he did it?

With 10 witnesses, I say he probably did, but will never admit to it.

The Feds ran this exact investigation for 2 years and came up empty handed.

They were talking to the same people that are claiming that Lance is dirty.

You get a person that rises head/shoulders above the rest of the pack and cheating is automatically assumes.
Forget about natural selection.
How about good genes and hard work.

Why do the Kenyans succeed so well in the marathons. Are they doped up or just better gened(sp) and trained over the multiple generations.

Spitz blew away the competition with better talent.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

In 2005, samples of urine which had been given by Lance Armstrong during the 1999 Tour de France were analyzed and found to contain significant levels of EPO.

Andy Shen (April 03, 2009). "Interview with Dr. Michael Ashenden"

-Wikipedia

The lab test for EPO wasn't developed until 2000.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Oral steroids work just fine. The issue with them is they destroy your liver and kidneys. Injections bypass your body's filtration systems so they work faster and don't hang around in your system as long and are harder to detect.

As far as Lance is concerned really I don't care either way/it's a waste of time and resources.

How do you think the injected steroids get out of your system? Also what do you think is the mechanism of kidney damage?

 

[freegeeks]

-Wikipedia

The lab test for EPO wasn't developed until 2000.

read and weep about EPO testing

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080626100921.htm


oh yes, Lance was using the advise of Italian Doc Ferrari

we all know that Ferrari is known for his advice about proper diet

 

[Fausto]

The Feds ran this exact investigation for 2 years and came up empty handed.

They were talking to the same people that are claiming that Lance is dirty.

You get a person that rises head/shoulders above the rest of the pack and cheating is automatically assumes.
Forget about natural selection.
How about good genes and hard work.

Why do the Kenyans succeed so well in the marathons. Are they doped up or just better gened(sp) and trained over the multiple generations.

Spitz blew away the competition with better talent.

Uh, nope. A clean athlete, no matter how talented is not going to win 7 in a row against guys who have at least 90% of his genetics and 100% more doping. This is particularly true for the years EPO was used with impunity.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Without gloves, you can't punch the other person's head. Doing so means breaking your hand.

Only if you do not condition your hands, and do not know how to strike without gloves. How the hell do you think Kimbo Slice got famous? And Karateka hit the makiwara for good reason. Some of the knock down karate guys have a favorite tree they condition their hands on. After years of doing it, they have made a smoother, depressed spot in the bark. I promise you they can KO you, and not break their hand doing it. The now common "Boxer's break" from hitting someone in a real fight is largely the result of training in gloves and wraps.

 

[Destiny]

Hi, I'm basic human endocrinology; I don't believe we've met.

LOL... I ment it is well documented he was getting hormone treatments during and after his cancer treatment.

You know of a male with more than one nut sack?

I ment to say testicle... he has only one testicle


I'm not trying to defend him... IMHO I think he's cheating... probably using his previous/current condition as an excuse to legally use testosterone and other medical stuff... Sciense will always have to play catch up that is the reason why these charges are brought up now - they finally were able to detect it...

 

[PlasmaBomb]

read and weep about EPO testing

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080626100921.htm


oh yes, Lance was using the advise of Italian Doc Ferrari

we all know that Ferrari is known for his advice about proper diet

I never said that it was a good test

 

[freegeeks]

Uh, nope. A clean athlete, no matter how talented is not going to win 7 in a row against guys who have at least 90% of his genetics and 100% more doping. This is particularly true for the years EPO was used with impunity.

Most people don't understand what a multiplier EPO is. Lance was without any doubt the best rider of this time but he was on the same stuff like anyone else.

That's why Edwig Van Hooydonck quit racing in the mid-90's. He was stronger then ever but he could barely stay in the wheel of guys he was destroying just the year before. He called them "brommers" (mopeds) because they were so strong because of EPO

People in denial are the ones wearing Livestrong bracelets

 

[freegeeks]

I never said that it was a good test

yeah, it's generally accepted that you get caught if you are stupid or just damn unlucky
one thing is sure, Lance is not stupid!!!!!

 

[Fausto]

This also puts Hincapie's somewhat-out-of-the-blue retirement announcement in a different light all of a sudden. I see federal subpoenas in his immediate future.

 

[freegeeks]

This also puts Hincapie's somewhat-out-of-the-blue retirement announcement in a different light all of a sudden. I see federal subpoenas in his immediate future.

I wonder what they really have on Lance
Would USADA go on some witch hunt against Lance, do they have any reasons to target him?
Would they risk their reputation? My guess is that they must really have some good evidence because else they would not suspend him.

 

[ShawnD1]

Only if you do not condition your hands, and do not know how to strike without gloves. How the hell do you think Kimbo Slice got famous? And Karateka hit the makiwara for good reason. Some of the knock down karate guys have a favorite tree they condition their hands on. After years of doing it, they have made a smoother, depressed spot in the bark. I promise you they can KO you, and not break their hand doing it. The now common "Boxer's break" from hitting someone in a real fight is largely the result of training in gloves and wraps.

I guess old time boxers didn't get the memo. In the days of bare knuckle boxing, matches went on for what felt like years. It wasn't unusual for a fight to go on for more than 20 rounds. Some of them could go on for as many as 80 rounds. Now that they wear gloves, it's expected that someone drops in 5 or less.

edit: pussification of America continues. Back in my day, they would get punched in the head for a solid hour without falling down!

 

[Fausto]

I wonder what they really have on Lance
Would USADA go on some witch hunt against Lance, do they have any reasons to target him?
Would they risk their reputation? My guess is that they must really have some good evidence because else they would not suspend him.

I honestly don't know. The story reads like they have pieced together their own version of "biological passport" for Lance and have zeroed in on variability of certain values. And/or someone close to him talked under oath. If he did dope, it's impossible that he could have concealed it from all his teammates over the years.

edit- it could be George. I know he and Lance are buds, but if he goes down on federal charges it will implode both his career and his business with his brother. If this is the case, I'm guessing he'd rather throw Lance under the bus than his entire family's future.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Uh, nope. A clean athlete, no matter how talented is not going to win 7 in a row against guys who have at least 90% of his genetics and 100% more doping. This is particularly true for the years EPO was used with impunity.

Spitz took seven in a row against the tops of the world.

And we know that the Eastern European and Communist blocs were playing with those types of enhancements that Armstrong is being accused of.

 

[freegeeks]

Spitz took seven in a row against the tops of the world.

And we know that the Eastern European and Communist blocs were playing with those types of enhancements that Armstrong is being accused of.

you can not compare swimming for a couple minutes with a 3 week endurance race
If you think that only Eastern Europe and Communist block were doping then you are wrong

do you know what the Tour de France does with your body? There is no way that an all natural Lance could compete against doped out Ullrich, Beloki, Pantani, Basso

 

[Fausto]

Spitz took seven in a row against the tops of the world.

And we know that the Eastern European and Communist blocs were playing with those types of enhancements that Armstrong is being accused of.

...and blood doping was legal back then.

Look, I'm not saying 100% that Lance doped, but the odds he did are very, very high given the nature of cycling. Racers train thousands of hours per year to eke out a few extra watts at threshold so when you introduce a substance that gives you a 5-10% advantage on top of this it's analagous to putting a turbo on a car. I don't know how familiar you are with pro cycling, but suffice to say there was a period of time where EPO use was undetectable and EVERYONE that could afford it was installing the biggest turbo their car could accomodate.

 

[Fausto]

you can not compare swimming for a couple minutes with a 3 week endurance race
If you think that only Eastern Europe and Communist block were doping then you are wrong

do you know what the Tour de France does with your body? There is no way that an all natural Lance could compete against doped out Ullrich, Beloki, Pantani, Basso

bolded names never tested positive for anything either. Bears mentioning.

 

[freegeeks]

bolded names never tested positive for anything either. Bears mentioning.

That is what I've been saying all the time, the whole "I never tested positive" is a poor defense. From the 40 or so procyclists involved in Operacion Puerto, only a few actually tested positive during their careers.

Bears mentioning that both Basso and Ullrich admitted that they were doped

and what Gaumont describes here explains what an edge doping gives you in cycling, and this not even EPO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_Belge

 

[dougp]

People in denial are the ones wearing Livestrong bracelets

And the people who keep accusing him are bitter foreigners who don't like it when an American wins in their "sport." You choose to accuse with no proof, and so in your mind all you can see is a guilty man because everyone else was doing it. Until you can prove that he actually used PEDs, quit with your accusations. Especially with my following point.

you can not compare swimming for a couple minutes with a 3 week endurance race
If you think that only Eastern Europe and Communist block were doping then you are wrong

do you know what the Tour de France does with your body? There is no way that an all natural Lance could compete against doped out Ullrich, Beloki, Pantani, Basso

Armstrong has been competing in biking since his teens, as well as running marathons, triathlons and the like. He was a great athlete that finished in the 30s before being diagnosed with cancer. Something changed him when he had cancer - we don't know the effect that the radiation had on his body, or any of the other medicine was on. He literally had 1% chance of living and he beat those odds - at that point, you really need to think about the type of drive the man has, as well as his pain threshold and tolerance. The man would go freaking RIDE HIS BIKE AFTER CHEMO TREATMENTS. He basically expected to die so he chose the live those months of treatment as he enjoyed it, which was riding.

 

[freegeeks]

And the people who keep accusing him are bitter foreigners who don't like it when an American wins in their "sport." You choose to accuse with no proof, and so in your mind all you can see is a guilty man because everyone else was doing it. Until you can prove that he actually used PEDs, quit with your accusations. Especially with my following point.



Armstrong has been competing in biking since his teens, as well as running marathons, triathlons and the like. He was a great athlete that finished in the 30s before being diagnosed with cancer. Something changed him when he had cancer - we don't know the effect that the radiation had on his body, or any of the other medicine was on. He literally had 1% chance of living and he beat those odds - at that point, you really need to think about the type of drive the man has, as well as his pain threshold and tolerance. The man would go freaking RIDE HIS BIKE AFTER CHEMO TREATMENTS. He basically expected to die so he chose the live those months of treatment as he enjoyed it, which was riding.

all i can say is LOL, wear that bracelet proudly
if your only defense is that I'm a bitter foreigner then I feel sorry

My judgement is based on following cycling for more then 25 years not like most here based on watching the Tour when Lance was competing and taken his word for gospel

He's a fraud, just like all the other he was competing against. He was the best but still a fraud

 

[dougp]

all i can say is LOL, wear that bracelet proudly
if your only defense is that I'm a bitter foreigner then I feel sorry

My judgement is based on following cycling for more then 25 years not like most here based on watching the Tour when Lance was competing and taken his word for gospel

He's a fraud, just like all the other he was competing against. He was the best but still a fraud

Uh, sure, ok. Maybe you should go hop on a bike instead of posting here then. You have no proof, but still accuse. In that case, you're a child molester. I have no proof, but you are!

 

[silverpig]

Uh, sure, ok. Maybe you should go hop on a bike instead of posting here then. You have no proof, but still accuse. In that case, you're a child molester. I have no proof, but you are!

If you had 10 witnesses who said he was, and if you could point to the fact that child molestation rates go up wherever he is, and that he's a catholic priest... maybe.

 

[LTC8K6]

If they were all on EPO, and Lance finished first, what's the problem?