Lacking anything else to release (at this moment), Nvidia will rebrand the low end..

[Jionix]

OEM only (who believes when either one says that?). GT 510 = GT 605, and GT 520 = GT 620.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus

I think Nvidia's 28nm models are going to be few... They don't even have any chips for their single release as it is.

 

[mak360]

NVidia have already started re-branding most of the notebooks/laptops from 5 to 6 (about 60+% of laptops shown by OEM are re-brands so far - could get better/worse). The design wins are mostly from Fermi re-brands (clever eh)

AMD is going to-do this also but on a much smaller scale, which is why you have nothing shown so far in laptops with AMD 7 series (prolly waiting for trinity)

 

[LoneNinja]

No surprise, everything below the 7750 in the 7XXX series from AMD will be a rebrand, and both AMD/Nvidia are having supply issues due to low yields on 28nm parts.

 

[taltamir]

No surprise, everything below the 7750 in the 7XXX series from AMD will be a rebrand, and both AMD/Nvidia are having supply issues due to low yields on 28nm parts.

It is a shame that it is so effective that rather then nvidia being shamed to stop it, AMD adopts the practice.

 

[Jionix]

No surprise, everything below the 7750 in the 7XXX series from AMD will be a rebrand, and both AMD/Nvidia are having supply issues due to low yields on 28nm parts.

There has been no reports on AMD having low yields --- Nvidia, on the other hand, yes (since they specifically said that they were having "Less than expected yields" in their earnings conference call). In fact, Nvidia is the only 28nm customer that has come out and said low yields.. So, let me guess, TSMC's fault again?

AMD has their full 28nm line up out.. And retail supply seems to be OK.

 

[blastingcap]

There has been no reports on AMD having low yields --- Nvidia, on the other hand, yes (since they specifically said that they were having "Less than expected yields" in their earnings conference call). In fact, Nvidia is the only 28nm customer that has come out and said low yields.. So, let me guess, TSMC's fault again?

AMD has their full 28nm line up out.. And retail supply seems to be OK.

Yeah because their prices suck.

Do you have non-SA sources for your statements btw? It may well be that other customers are more diplomatic and haven't gone public with their own TSMC 28nm complaints.

 

[Jionix]

Then I would say, if no one else thinks it's necessary to say they are having bad yields, why does Nvidia see it necessary to say so? Or on the other hand, if other companies WERE having low yields, why would they NOT say so? It makes no sense!

 

[Ventanni]

I don't think AMD is having glorious yield rates on their 28nm parts either, but they're able to tackle the problem areas better given their past foundry experience.

 

[blastingcap]

Then I would say, if no one else thinks it's necessary to say they are having bad yields, why does Nvidia see it necessary to say so? Or on the other hand, if other companies WERE having low yields, why would they NOT say so? It makes no sense!

I take it that you have no other sources than SA.

SA is not particularly credible.

There are MANY potential explanations, not just the one Charlie espouses. E.g., JHH is a loose cannon who has said things like he's going to open up a can of whoopass on Intel, and stuff like that before, so he might say publicly things that other CEOs keep private for long-term business relationship reasons.

(Sorry, I don't mean to criticize you or your "logic," if you happen to be Charlie himself.)

 

[Jionix]

I take it that you have no other sources than SA.

How can I quote other sources of other companies having low yields, when Nvidia is the only one to say they are having low yields?

I can give you a link to Nvidia's conference call.. You can hear the statement of less than expected yields yourself..

 

[Lonyo]

How can I quote other sources of other companies having low yields, when Nvidia is the only one to say they are having low yields?

I can give you a link to Nvidia's conference call.. You can hear the statement of less than expected yields yourself..

Or link to the thread about TSMC having limited supply.

 

[notty22]

How can I quote other sources of other companies having low yields, when Nvidia is the only one to say they are having low yields?

I can give you a link to Nvidia's conference call.. You can hear the statement of less than expected yields yourself..

Please link to this quote. Or do you think, that no tech site reporters would be reporting that fact ? They actually stated they were not getting enough wafer starts. Meaning they can't build them fast enough because of a general constraint on 28nm.
And this baloney about poo pooing on the amount of increased Nvida presence in new laptops and Ultrabooks as being unimportant or bad because they might be Fermi die shrinks and not completely new Kepler designs. Of which NO PROOF is being offered by those making those claims. Either way, its more business for Nvidia and less for AMD.

 

[Jionix]

Or link to the thread about TSMC having limited supply.

Limited capacity/wafer lines is completely separate from low yields.

 

[Lonyo]

Limited capacity/wafer lines is completely separate from low yields.

No, limited supply is a function of limited wafer runs AND poor yields.

The tight supply of chips made at TSMC utilizing 28nm technology is a result of both relatively low yields (which are gradually improving) and TSMC's reluctance to quickly boost manufacturing capacities "in order to maintain gross margins", reports DigiTimes web-site.

 

[notty22]

Nvidia Launches Kepler for Ultrabooks: GeForce GTX 660M

Thanks to new power-efficient architecture and 28nm fabrication process, the GK107 graphics processor is projected to offer decent performance while consuming low amount of power.
"Ultrabook users will love the GeForce GT 600M family for its performance and power efficiency," said Brian Kelleher, senior vice president of GPU engineering at Nvidia.
Nvidia Kepler architecture supports modern high-end features like DirectX 11.1, OpenGL 4.2, OpenCL 1.2, stereoscopic-3D, 4 multi-monitor capability, PhysX, multi-GPU, PCI Express 3.0 and so on. The new chips are made using 28nm process technology and feature special optimizations to trim power requirements.
Nvidia GeForce 600M family of graphics processors for notebooks includes both GK107 "Kepler"-based models, GF114 (40nm), GF116 (40nm), GF119 (40nm) GF117 (28nm) and GF108 (28nm) "Fermi"-based re-branded or re-des graphics solutions. In fact, Kepler/GK107 powers only GeForce GTX 660M, GT 650M, GT 640M and some GT 640M LE. The models GTX 680M, GTX 675M and GTX 670M utilize previous-gen GF114/40nm, GT 635M is powered by GF116/40nm, GT 630M uses GF117/28m, 610M is based on GF119/40nm.

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-600m-gpus-bring-kepler-to-ultrabooks-22219584/

 

[Jionix]

Please link to this quote. Or do you think, that no tech site reporters would be reporting that fact ? They actually stated they were not getting enough wafer starts.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Listen for yourself.

http://edge.media-server.com/m/p/6ye4ypg2/lan/en

AT THE 15 MINUTE MARK --- JHH Sepcifically says....

"The gross margin decline is contributed almost entirely to the yields of 28nm being lower than expected. That is, I guess, unsurprising at this point,”

 

[3DVagabond]

How can I quote other sources of other companies having low yields, when Nvidia is the only one to say they are having low yields?

I can give you a link to Nvidia's conference call.. You can hear the statement of less than expected yields yourself..

It's called, "If you don't like the news then shoot the messenger."

 

[Jionix]

No, limited supply is a function of limited wafer runs AND poor yields.

You would need to link to both the article you are quoting and the Digi-times source article, because something tells me that Digi-times is concocting a story using available information (in this case, Nvidia's low yields).

 

[notty22]

It's called, "If you don't like the news then shoot the messenger."

What news are we talking about. The news about AMD laying off employees and the continued press releases of key graphic management that came over from ATI leaving the company ?
That Nvidia announcing design wins/contracts is somehow bad. And their HALO gpu is currently a smaller die/with less transistors , and is sold cheaper while being faster.
Yes nvidia is doomed.

 

[Jionix]

What news are we talking about. The news about AMD laying off employees and the continued press releases of key graphic management that came over from ATI leaving the company ?
That Nvidia announcing design wins/contracts is somehow bad. And their HALO gpu is currently a smaller die/with less transistors , and is sold cheaper while being faster.
Yes nvidia is doomed.

Spin away!

 

[3DVagabond]

What news are we talking about. The news about AMD laying off employees and the continued press releases of key graphic management that came over from ATI leaving the company ?
That Nvidia announcing design wins/contracts is somehow bad. And their HALO gpu is currently a smaller die/with less transistors , and is sold cheaper while being faster.
Yes nvidia is doomed.

No. None of the stuff you just posted. Nothing there is at all what the OP is about. Why would you even post all of that in this thread? It's not even a rational response.

 

[notty22]

TSMC Faces Shortage of 28nm Production Capacities - Report.

As expected, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company cannot meet demand for chips produced using 28nm process technologies due to low yields and insufficient production capacities, a media report citing industry source claims. The shortages are projected to ease only by the end of Q3 2012.

TSMC's customers who utilize 28nm process technology - Advanced Micro Devices, Nvidia Corp. and Qualcomm - have all faced shortages of 28nm chips. AMD has announced a number of 28nm graphics processing units so far, but their availability is not truly wide; Nvidia has also managed to introduce a number of 28nm GPUs, but blamed TSMC for undersupplies; Qualcomm is also frustrated with tight supply of its chips that TSMC produces using 28nm fabrication process.

The tight supply of chips made at TSMC utilizing 28nm technology is a result of both relatively low yields (which are gradually improving) and TSMC's reluctance to quickly boost manufacturing capacities "in order to maintain gross margins", reports DigiTimes web-site.

 

[blastingcap]

It's called, "If you don't like the news then shoot the messenger."

Did you even read what I said? He's saying that NV is the only one being hurt by low yields. But it's impossible to say for certain whether that's the case or not unless he has inside information. (Reading Charlie's anti-NV rants on SA does not count as inside information.) So I said that there are many potential explanations, such as JHH being the only CEO so far who is willing to publicly call out TSMC's poor 28nm yields.

To repeat: just because NV has low yields doesn't mean that they are the only ones affected. That is a leap of logic, and so far the only place I've ever heard that claim was by Charlie at SA. If other, credible sources start reporting similar things to what Charlie says, fine, but until then, it's a rumor and not the "fact" OP is making it out to be by using faulty logic (that if NV is the only one publicly blaming poor TSMC 28nm yields, therefore they must be the only ones affected by poor TSMC 28nm yields). He was unable to post any sources buttressing his claim, so I took it to mean that he had none. If you don't understand this, then I don't know what to say. If you DO understand this, I accept your apology in advance.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

It is a shame that it is so effective that rather then nvidia being shamed to stop it, AMD adopts the practice.

its not entirely the fault of nVidia and AMD, their OEM partners are just as guilty, as are the ignorant consumers who are the entire reason the OEMs willing agree to the farce

 

[SickBeast]

The low end of the market is basically dead anyways. Pretty much every CPU sold now has a GPU in it.