L.A. chief: ?Inappropriate? police force at rally

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: flavio
You guys are blind to the fact that there was premeditated attack on a peaceful rally which is ignoring the right to assemble.

Illegals shouldn't have the right to do a damn thing but gtfo of the country.

Oh point me to where it says everyone at the rally were illegals....or even the vast majority? Go ahead now.

Go ahead and show me where they weren't.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Socio
It really is a sad time we live in when our police can not question an illegal about their immigrant status, can not detain them, and now will be forced to walk the other way when they see them causing any trouble, i.e. deliberately blocking traffic lanes, throwing rocks and bottles at them or any other crime. I mean, why would they ever take a chance enforcing anything illegal that a Hispanic does anymore, when they would just get labeled a racist and reprimanded or fired because of it.

So how are YOU going to prove YOUR immigration status when asked to prove you aren't in this country illegally by the police? You look like a illegal Canadian to me!

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Arcex

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Arcex


Furthermore, under no circumstance should rubber bullets, bean bags, pepper spray paintballs or any other less-lethal projectiles be fired at a crowd with CHILDREN in it. that is a huge breach of safety regulations, they are called "less-lethal" and not "non-lethal" for a reason, if you are not careful you can easily kill a grown adult using any of the items I listed, obviously making it very easy to kill a child with them.

hmmmm, so now all I need is some children planted in my anarchic gathering and I have no worries of that the police using non-lethal projectiles? Thanks for the tip.

You're right, forget the children who are too young to know why they're there, obviously they have their own agenda and should be murdered, great thinking CPA, keep up the good work.

You missed my point.

If the cops shouldn't use non-lethal methods to disperse the crowd because children are present, then the inclusion of children should be a tactic of any crowd expecting to cause friction with police.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Got a source for that dumb claim?

The same source you are apparently using.

Oh yeah, they were "forced" to do what they did. Who said that? The police who did it? No they wouldn't be biased.

Peaceful gathering turns into mayhem...typically results in a police response...of course, if things got out of hand and property was damaged in the process, some people would blame the police for that as well.

Who deliberately got in the way? Is your entire arguement based on unfounded speculation?

I am a media journalist covering a significant demonstration...things get out of hand, and the police start clearing area. Do I:

A. Let the police do their job, stand to the side, and cover the event to ensure that the police response is proportional to the public safety threat or
B. March directly at the police, get in their way, and become part of the problem rather than observers of it.

If you chose B, you would be correct. The video footage in and of itself clearly illustrates that the media CHOSE to place itself DIRECTLY in the path of the police riot line...gee, I wonder why a few of them got hurt.

Oh, and the media representatives doing the most whining are Spanish speaking stations...surely they wouldn't be biased...nah, couldn't happen.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK
Cali is gonna explode with violence soon enough.

just what do you think all of those detainment camps are for? americans? no.

Detainment camps, would you care to be specific? Show me something that holds 20 million people, other than our most populated states.

 

[MrsBugi]

How can the police fire into an unarmed crowd, unprovoked, with women and children?

(I think this is the correct forum?)

 

[Specop 007]

Good thing the video didnt show the groups who were throwing rocks and beer bottles at the police, or we couldnt have a good emotionally driven LAPD bashing fest.

 

[MrsBugi]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Good thing the video didnt show the groups who were throwing rocks and beer bottles at the police, or we couldnt have a good emotionally driven LAPD bashing fest.

I heard about that, but apparently it was in response to the unprovoked attacks/herding?

 

[EagleKeeper]

The groups exited the sidewalks and the police attemtped to have them get back where they were supposed tobe.

A few bad apples (on either side) will be used to justify actions.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
I've seen the video. I've heard the "charges." What a complete joke. LAPD acted fine. Seriously, when LAPD in inappropiate... people die. I hate the cops, always have, always will, but in this case the police acted with self control and their actions were more than OK.

The Chief disagrees with you.

The Chief wants to keep his job.

 

[KK]

Illegals have no rights under our laws, well maybe stupid ass california does but that's another issue. They should have been deporting all those fvcks back to where they come from if they want to cause trouble on american soil.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: MrsBugi
How can the police fire into an unarmed crowd, unprovoked, with women and children?

(I think this is the correct forum?)

they fired rubber bullets aimed at people who would not comply with orders to get out. they did not shoot at kids.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
I dunno; with all those illegals there, the cops probably felt like we were being invaded. I don't know why the INS doesn't use these rallies as a prime opportunity to round em up and deport em.

Stormtrooper mentality > LAPD > Riot control or Riot incitment?

 

[piasabird]

If you get a group of over 10,000 people get together that decide they want to commit illegal acts, then they attack the police, then I say it is time to start shooting.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: KK
Illegals have no rights under our laws, well maybe stupid ass california does but that's another issue. They should have been deporting all those fvcks back to where they come from if they want to cause trouble on american soil.

Uhh, they do have rights under out laws.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: KK
Illegals have no rights under our laws, well maybe stupid ass california does but that's another issue. They should have been deporting all those fvcks back to where they come from if they want to cause trouble on american soil.

Uhh, they do have rights under out laws.

They have rights under our laws even as illegals.

They also have the responsibilty to obey the laws that exist.

They also have to expect the penalty of being an illegal (regardless of the :brokenheart: libbys)

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Socio
It really is a sad time we live in when our police can not question an illegal about their immigrant status, can not detain them, and now will be forced to walk the other way when they see them causing any trouble, i.e. deliberately blocking traffic lanes, throwing rocks and bottles at them or any other crime. I mean, why would they ever take a chance enforcing anything illegal that a Hispanic does anymore, when they would just get labeled a racist and reprimanded or fired because of it.

So how are YOU going to prove YOUR immigration status when asked to prove you aren't in this country illegally by the police? You look like a illegal Canadian to me!

Hopefully my driver license and social security card would suffice when they looked my up on their computer system and if I was truly worried about it I would keep a copy of my birth certificate in my wallet.

If I had no forms of identification on me I would expect to be detained until my identity was proven and if I was a Canuck here illegally I would expect to be fined, jailed and then deported no question.

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Arcex

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: Arcex


Furthermore, under no circumstance should rubber bullets, bean bags, pepper spray paintballs or any other less-lethal projectiles be fired at a crowd with CHILDREN in it. that is a huge breach of safety regulations, they are called "less-lethal" and not "non-lethal" for a reason, if you are not careful you can easily kill a grown adult using any of the items I listed, obviously making it very easy to kill a child with them.

hmmmm, so now all I need is some children planted in my anarchic gathering and I have no worries of that the police using non-lethal projectiles? Thanks for the tip.

You're right, forget the children who are too young to know why they're there, obviously they have their own agenda and should be murdered, great thinking CPA, keep up the good work.

You missed my point.

If the cops shouldn't use non-lethal methods to disperse the crowd because children are present, then the inclusion of children should be a tactic of any crowd expecting to cause friction with police.

So are you saying any time children are in a crowd at a rally that means they are about to start a confrontation with the police and should therefore be met with extreme force?

How about this, according to police reports the estimated number of agitators that were in the crowd that they were attempting to subdue was 50-100. First, that's a hell of a wide range but lets put that aside for now. The number of rubber bullets fired into the crowd was 240.

Have you ever been shot with a rubber bullet? I haven't but I've seen the effects they have on the human body in controlled tests in the most favorable environments. 1 rubber bullet is enough to take the fight out of just about anybody, let alone in an uncontrolled situation where you might be hit in a less than favorable location (causing more damage to the body, and certainly more pain).

So, lets play devil's advocate and say 240 divided by 100 = 2.4 bullets per person. Obviously they wouldn't have shot non-agitators, and just as obviously they wouldn't have taken the shot if they thought they would miss more than half the time, so they must have shot each agitator 2.4 times, right?

Yeah, right...

And here is where I got my numbers from:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18485229/

 

[EagleKeeper]

You are operating under the assumption that they are trained and calm enough to hit what they aim at.

Are those single or multi-shot weapons?

The recoil from a firing will through off the aim for future shots until the target is reaquired.

 

[Socio]

They really had no choice but to disperse that protest before nightfall because they know when the sun goes down large crowds like that get real ugly real quick.

Here is a video taken later that evening, imagine a group100x the size, gang mentality aspect would have gotten way out of control.

Video

Also here I would have not felt sorry at all if these idiots waving the Mexican flag if they had gotten shot in the butt with rubber bullets.

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
You are operating under the assumption that they are trained and calm enough to hit what they aim at.

Are those single or multi-shot weapons?

The recoil from a firing will through off the aim for future shots until the target is reaquired.

A) Yes I am operating on the assumption that they are trained and calm enough to hit what they aim at, otherwise they shouldn't be employed in that kind of crowd control, period.

B and C) They sure as hell better not have been using 3 round burst or full auto, neither is appropriate for the situation. Using this kind of less-lethal crowd control is entirely dependent on identifying a specific target and hitting them once, evaluating the effect of the shot, and shooting them again if deemed warranted, especially with non-agitators in the crowd.

Also, it has been determined that one of the main reasons so many people did not disperse is because the only, ONLY warning to disperse was given in english from a helicopter to a crowd comprised mostly of spanish-speaking people, so even the people that could understand english had trouble hearing the warning.

And before someone else points it out, yes, I do think if you want to live in this country you should learn the language, and the obvious conclusion is that a large number of the people that could not understand english are illegals who should have been rounded up and deported, but as I've pointed out many times, that would have resulted in a riot and a far greater number of casualties.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Also, it has been determined that one of the main reasons so many people did not disperse is because the only, ONLY warning to disperse was given in english from a helicopter to a crowd comprised mostly of spanish-speaking people, so even the people that could understand english had trouble hearing the warning.

Well maybe it is time this wave of immigrants started to learn the language of the land...Italians, Greeks, Puero Ricans, Germans, Dutch, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Korean...every other wave of immigrants to this country has managed to learn English and transition into our multi-cultural society without losing touch with their own respective traditions and cultural values...that we seek to accomodate and cater to the Latino immigrant wave is part of the problem.

And before someone else points it out, yes, I do think if you want to live in this country you should learn the language, and the obvious conclusion is that a large number of the people that could not understand english are illegals who should have been rounded up and deported, but as I've pointed out many times, that would have resulted in a riot and a far greater number of casualties.

True, but we should not let violence and intimidation prevent our society from enforcing its own laws...we have an immigration process in place...others have managed to follow it and join our American society.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: KK
Illegals have no rights under our laws, well maybe stupid ass california does but that's another issue. They should have been deporting all those fvcks back to where they come from if they want to cause trouble on american soil.

Uhh, they do have rights under out laws.

They have rights under our laws even as illegals.

They also have the responsibilty to obey the laws that exist.

They also have to expect the penalty of being an illegal (regardless of the :brokenheart: libbys)

I agree with this 100%

Every minute the illegal stays in the country they are knowingly committing a crime.

Walk into your neighbors garage because he left the door open and then stand there as long as you want .. pitch a tent there and then start using the resources he has stored there.. see if you get charged with a crime

Sneak across the border.. stay here.. buy a car with no insurance and drive around.. sign up for welfare or food assistance and low income housing .. etc.. go get medical care and never pay the bill >> what happens?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Socio
They really had no choice but to disperse that protest before nightfall because they know when the sun goes down large crowds like that get real ugly real quick.

Here is a video taken later that evening, imagine a group100x the size, gang mentality aspect would have gotten way out of control.

Video

Also here I would have not felt sorry at all if these idiots waving the Mexican flag if they had gotten shot in the butt with rubber bullets.

Damn.. If Mexico is so great then why the fck do they leave?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Socio
They really had no choice but to disperse that protest before nightfall because they know when the sun goes down large crowds like that get real ugly real quick.

Here is a video taken later that evening, imagine a group100x the size, gang mentality aspect would have gotten way out of control.

Video

Also here I would have not felt sorry at all if these idiots waving the Mexican flag if they had gotten shot in the butt with rubber bullets.

Damn.. If Mexico is so great then why the fck do they leave?

They think that from Texas across to the Pacific belong to them.