Kyro II Driver/Advice

[Abdiel]

I'm new to these parts (obviously), and my once respectable computer skills have decayed into obsolescence, so forgive me if I've forgotten to add something important or misspoken. That said, I submit my question to the forum techie gods.

I just set up an WinXP Professional Ed System with an Athlon 1800+ CPU and 256 MB DDR. My problem is with my video card, a PowerVR Kyro II 64 MB...

It's running fine for all 2d applications, but for some reason whenever I run anything 3D (from FPS titles to cheesy shockwave games) I get tons of "polygon shrapnel," where the models hold up just fine and with a decent framerate, but tons of random textured triangles of various sizes pop up in odd places for a frame or two and then disappear. It's distracting enough to make 3d games and applications unbearable.

I've tried all the different Kyro II drivers I could find through Google, made sure my DirectX drivers were up to date, written tech support (and gotten no response), and so I've come here. It's quite possible (even likely) that I've forgotten something really basic... This has been my first computer upgrade in 4 years.

So, I guess my question is twofold:

a) Any Tech Whizzes or Kyro II users out there who know of this phenomenon and how to counteract it?

b) Failing that, any advice for a replacement card under 100 bucks that would work with my OS/CPU configuration? I run a little Lightwave3D, but mostly would be using the card for games (CS, Morrowind, WCIII, maybe NWN, etc).

Thanks in advance for any and all help you can give.

 

[Idoxash]

..........dude look at it this way at least your card works!

I ask ppl on this and 8 other forums about my probs and

a: never got reply too
b: told off
C: made fun of
d: was gave no help at all but was told that there works and i was just stupid!

my probs is that when kyro II is install in pc with xp xp works and i get 2d just fine... but install the drivers being and yes i have tryed
all drivers for 98SE, 2k, and xp... and everytime i get this same prob!

"install it works till restart pc xp loads with blue screen pc restarts and loaeds with bluew screen over and over! after that i'm force
to take kyro out... and reinstall xp."

and no putting another card in after taking kyro out does not help... suck eh so i'm stucking using intel onboard crapy stuff......

 

[nemesismk2]

<< I'm new to these parts (obviously), and my once respectable computer skills have decayed into obsolescence, so forgive me if I've forgotten to add something important or misspoken. That said, I submit my question to the forum techie gods.

I just set up an WinXP Professional Ed System with an Athlon 1800+ CPU and 256 MB DDR. My problem is with my video card, a PowerVR Kyro II 64 MB...

It's running fine for all 2d applications, but for some reason whenever I run anything 3D (from FPS titles to cheesy shockwave games) I get tons of "polygon shrapnel," where the models hold up just fine and with a decent framerate, but tons of random textured triangles of various sizes pop up in odd places for a frame or two and then disappear. It's distracting enough to make 3d games and applications unbearable.

I've tried all the different Kyro II drivers I could find through Google, made sure my DirectX drivers were up to date, written tech support (and gotten no response), and so I've come here. It's quite possible (even likely) that I've forgotten something really basic... This has been my first computer upgrade in 4 years.

So, I guess my question is twofold:

a) Any Tech Whizzes or Kyro II users out there who know of this phenomenon and how to counteract it?

b) Failing that, any advice for a replacement card under 100 bucks that would work with my OS/CPU configuration? I run a little Lightwave3D, but mostly would be using the card for games (CS, Morrowind, WCIII, maybe NWN, etc).

Thanks in advance for any and all help you can give. >>



what make of kyro is it Videologic, Hercules etc, Apollo?
how did you remove the drivers from your old video card?

The best place to get the latest drivers is here:- PowerVR reference drivers

 

[Abdiel]

Thanks for the responses!

The card was installed in a new system as the primary VGA adapter, so there were no old drivers to remove.
I'm not sure about chipset, it's an Inno3D Kyro II 4500 board.

I tried the driver from the PowerVR site already... sadly it seems to cause the same problem.

 

[holdencommodore]

Have you tried the newer 15.20 drivers from Hrecules.com? Also, check out the Paraknowya FAQ Here. You can also try enabling different options in the driver D3D oprions such as "Defer Render till flip" etc...

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[Abdiel]

Some great ideas, holdencommodore.

I just gave the Hercules driver a shot but apparently it can detect that my card's not a Prophet model, so it wouldn't install.

I've messed with the D3D settings a bit, and it did seem to reduce the frequency of the odd polygon blips, till I noticed that my FPS was cut by ~80%, and it was just a question of the whole animation in general being slower to display. I'll mess around with it some more.

The ParaKnowYa site is great. I'll ask the guys on that board too, since it seems to be more Kyro based. They've probably seen something similar.

Thanks again for all your help, everyone. You guys have been very kind to a stranger with a mundane problem.

 

[nemesismk2]

I've never used the same brand of Kyro 2 as you, the only time I ever experienced similar problems as you is when I overclocked my Kyro 2. Have you tried underclocking your Kyro 2 using the powervr drivers?

 

[RobsTV]

<< ..........dude look at it this way at least your card works!

I ask ppl on this and 8 other forums about my probs and

a: never got reply too
b: told off
C: made fun of
d: was gave no help at all but was told that there works and i was just stupid!

>>



What happened to you was wrong.
For a while here, seems there were a few Kyro II owners that would stop at nothing to say how
great and mighty the Kyro II was, and that nvidia and ATI could not compare. While there is nothing
wrong with liking what you have, those type of posts may falsely steer someone into buying a product
that was not fully proven yet. Many of us would try explaining this, and got attacked by the Kyro II
owners as Kyro bashing. Now that Kyro II has indeed proven to be less than acceptable in "some"
games, and those Kyro fan boys have left, what is left is some poor users with no where to turn.
Those of us that were here before the Kyro II, and still here after the Kyro II, sometimes laugh at the
mess that is left, that many were warned may happen. Sorry, but if you want support, you need to go
to where others with probelms hang out, and there are few Kyro II helpers left here it seems. When
you dare to be brave and try a new product, sometimes you are left with the crap afterwards.

 

[nemesismk2]

what a load of complete bulls**t! I think you should give the average computer user abit more credit, not everyone is as technically inept as you.

If you knew anything about computers then you'd look at your computer because I doubt it would even be powerful enough to even run a Kyro 2. Your cpu is years out of date, you have virtually no memory, your video card is useless compared to my GF4 ti4600, get a REAL computer and ditch the antique.

what exactly are you talking about? I think you should stay off the drugs!



<< What happened to you was wrong.
For a while here, seems there were a few Kyro II owners that would stop at nothing to say how
great and mighty the Kyro II was, and that nvidia and ATI could not compare. While there is nothing
wrong with liking what you have, those type of posts may falsely steer someone into buying a product
that was not fully proven yet. Many of us would try explaining this, and got attacked by the Kyro II
owners as Kyro bashing. Now that Kyro II has indeed proven to be less than acceptable in "some"
games, and those Kyro fan boys have left, what is left is some poor users with no where to turn.
Those of us that were here before the Kyro II, and still here after the Kyro II, sometimes laugh at the
mess that is left, that many were warned may happen. Sorry, but if you want support, you need to go
to where others with probelms hang out, and there are few Kyro II helpers left here it seems. When
you dare to be brave and try a new product, sometimes you are left with the crap afterwards. >>

 

[vedin]

Um, Robs..what the heck are you talking about? I've been here before the Kyro, and I'm still here checking to make sure that if anyone has problems, they find some help for them. Nemesis has been on other forums for the most part(Anandtech ain't the only one around ya know), and Teasy's even been known to pop in from time to time. Dunno what Ixodash's problem was with his getting help, if I remember correctly he got all kinds of advice, and when it didn't help, he just got mad at everyone. In any case, Ixo, seriously, you HAVE A BUM CARD. That could be the ONLY thing , that I know of, that could be causing you such a headache. Take it back, and get a different one, or even something of a totally different maker, I don't care. If you got a piece of hardware form someone that has no return policy, that's you're fault.

And Robs...don't make me start pasting in problems people have with their brand new Geforce 3s and 4s. You wouldn't want to look silly, now would you?

Edit:: Oh, and could it be that there just isn't much call for PowerVR fans these days? That couldn't be because there aren't nearly as many problems could it? Nah, didn't think so.

 

[holdencommodore]

RobsTV: The Kyro II is great and mighty... it's a fantastic card in the budget sector. When I got the card, I had a option of buying either a KyroII 64 MB or a GF2 MX200 for the same price ($145 AUD). Which one do you think I chose?? The Kyro II ofcourse!
I don't think the Kyro II is the best card in the world, but it sure is one of the top budget cards.

Cheers

 

[RobsTV]

nemesismk2, if the system you are refering to was mine, I got tired of updating system specs page every couple months.
What was listed was more than 3 upgrades old (Dec. 2001).
Current system is now listed correctly.
Thanks for the update reminder.

The Kyro II now has no support. Gone Belly up. If it was great, or even 1/2 way decent, it would still be around.
As always, latest reviews and benchmarks put Kyro II at or near the bottom of the heap.
A $50 nvidia or ATI card is faster. As newer games, such as Star Wars Jedi Knight II come out, the flaws of Kyro II are easily exposed.
Check out Tom's VGA Charts for the most updated info.
Even if the Kyro II was slightly faster than GF2 MX 200 in "some games", what good is a card with no support?
What about resale value? Who in there right mind would buy a used Kyro II after all this?
At least if I had bought a GF2 MX 200, I could still sell it as used without a huge $$ hit, so upgrading to GF3/GF4 would not cost as much.

Sorry, but trying to get a Kyro II going good enough today is like beating a dead horse, even with an Athlon 1800+ CPU.
8fps, and 1/4 the speed of GF2 MX in modern games should be enough to say, Dump It.

Check out this PowerVr forum:
What now guys?, What to get, or wait?
Here is what a senior member "PowerVR Guru" with 2129 posts had to say to the discussion

Question:
"Well now my kyro2 is dead, should i send it back to hercules or what?":
(snip)

Response:
"I say..... get that voodoo 3 2000 from you friend"
(snip)
"my voodoo 3 is making my kyro 2 look horribly bad in MAX PAYNE.... "

Coming from a PowerVR Guru, I think speaks volumes for how bad the card really is.

Even uknemesis had this to say:
"I think a better buy would be a gf4 mx440, they are dirt cheap these days and can be overclocked to 300mhz/450mhz easily for extra fps. In most of the reviews I've seen the MX440 is also faster than the Radeon 7500, the MX440 is also supplied with reliable drivers too! (yep I sold my soul to Nvidia) "
To be fair, he later adds:
"I agree buy a cheap temporary video card for current games (after all there's still very little games making use of the more advanced features) and then wait for the Kyro 3 and get that!"

 

[nemesismk2]

<< The Kyro II now has no support. Gone Belly up. If it was great, or even 1/2 way decent, it would still be around. >>



The Kyro2 IS still around, it's still being sold and is still selling very well atleast as far as the UK market is concerned. What exactly do you mean by no support? Driver support has been delayed recently which is probably due to the release of the Kyro 2 SE which we expect soon.



<< Sorry, but trying to get a Kyro II going good enough today is like beating a dead horse, even with an Athlon 1800+ CPU. 8fps, and 1/4 the speed of GF2 MX in modern games should be enough to say, Dump It. >>



1/4 the speed of a GF2 MX, don't make me laugh, I've owned both and that's a load of cr*p!



<< Check out this PowerVr forum:
What now guys?, What to get, or wait?
Here is what a senior member "PowerVR Guru" with 2129 posts had to say to the discussion >>



That was a few weeks ago and I'm pretty sure that person damaged his Kyro 2 when he updated the bios!



<< Question:
"Well now my kyro2 is dead, should i send it back to hercules or what?":
(snip)

Response:
"I say..... get that voodoo 3 2000 from you friend"
(snip)
"my voodoo 3 is making my kyro 2 look horribly bad in MAX PAYNE.... "

Coming from a PowerVR Guru, I think speaks volumes for how bad the card really is. >>



Your talking about Judas aren't you, I think he uses the 3dfx drivers which allow you to enable Hardware TnL even with a video card which doesn't support it., that is why his voodoo3 performs well with Max Payne and ofcourse it's also running in 16bit.



<< Even uknemesis had this to say:
"I think a better buy would be a gf4 mx440, they are dirt cheap these days and can be overclocked to 300mhz/450mhz easily for extra fps. In most of the reviews I've seen the MX440 is also faster than the Radeon 7500, the MX440 is also supplied with reliable drivers too! (yep I sold my soul to Nvidia) " >>



Ok so I recommended a GF4 MX440, it's a good cheap video card. so?

 

[Manya]

hmmmm, how funny is this, we give these 3 poor souls a bunch of idea's to fix there problem, and they try to ruin the cards reutaion in the foums. Maybe if you had gotten off your arses and had taken the card back for replacement, you wouldn't be in this problem. But NOOO, you want to be little 12 year olds, that just cry when your new toy doesn't work, probably didn't even try the card in another system either. I bet if your GeFork cards where acting funny when you bought them you'd take them back quick smart.

I hope you 3 people burn in hell.


to holdencommodore.

Holden rocks

 

[RobsTV]

<< Sorry, but trying to get a Kyro II going good enough today is like beating a dead horse, even with an Athlon 1800+ CPU. 8fps, and 1/4 the speed of GF2 MX in modern games should be enough to say, Dump It. >>



<< 1/4 the speed of a GF2 MX, don't make me laugh, I've owned both and that's a load of cr*p! >>



1/4 the speed in "modern games". In "old games" Kyro II and GF2 MX run fairly equal, and in some Kyro II is faster.

Star Wars Jedi Knight II
Kyro II 32meg 8.7fps
Kyro II 64meg 9.2fps
GF2 MX 37.1fps
GF2 MX440 84.4fps
As this shows, time to move on.

It's funny but I've seen some posts in other forums say that of of course now the Kyro II is dated,
and therefore it of course can not keep up with modern games. Strange though that cards like GF2 MX,
which is even more outdated, don't have thoses same issues.

 

[Idoxash]

"I hope you 3 people burn in hell."
Just what 3 are you talking of?

hmm.....I find all this so messed up you ppl spend way to much time fussing over what video card company rules...
If it plays the games then shut up!

Also just incase if that dude was talking of me when he or her said, "I hope you 3 people burn in hell." Unlike
almost everyone else that owns a Kyro II i went out and put 150 bucks down for this card before it even shiped
too the store... even when most hardware sites was putting it down... I was one of the first owners... The Kyro II
is a kick butt video card no matter what you ati/nvid brain wash ppl says! Yeah so I don't use it no more... for some
odd thing unlike a lot of other ppl I can't seem to get it too work under XP... but know what nope there is no ati or
nvida crap in my pc nope... right now i have a SiS 315 thats has nice 2d and decent 3d... I'm sure enought not
buying ati or nvida!

 

[Manya]

<< << Sorry, but trying to get a Kyro II going good enough today is like beating a dead horse, even with an Athlon 1800+ CPU. 8fps, and 1/4 the speed of GF2 MX in modern games should be enough to say, Dump It. >>



<< 1/4 the speed of a GF2 MX, don't make me laugh, I've owned both and that's a load of cr*p! >>



1/4 the speed in "modern games". In "old games" Kyro II and GF2 MX run fairly equal, and in some Kyro II is faster.

Star Wars Jedi Knight II
Kyro II 32meg 8.7fps
Kyro II 64meg 9.2fps
GF2 MX 37.1fps
GF2 MX440 84.4fps
As this shows, time to move on.

It's funny but I've seen some posts in other forums say that of of course now the Kyro II is dated,
and therefore it of course can not keep up with modern games. Strange though that cards like GF2 MX,
which is even more outdated, don't have thoses same issues. >>



lol, the irony posting tomhardware stuff at an anandtech forum. it's funny how you don't mention a single word about the UT2003 test that Andtech did.

I also own JK2 and frame rates are a constant 56fps, with it dropping down to 20 in large areas with about 6-7 light saber fights going on.

 

[Manya]

<< "I hope you 3 people burn in hell."
Just what 3 are you talking of?

hmm.....I find all this so messed up you ppl spend way to much time fussing over what video card company rules...
If it plays the games then shut up!

Also just incase if that dude was talking of me when he or her said, "I hope you 3 people burn in hell." Unlike
almost everyone else that owns a Kyro II i went out and put 150 bucks down for this card before it even shiped
too the store... even when most hardware sites was putting it down... I was one of the first owners... The Kyro II
is a kick butt video card no matter what you ati/nvid brain wash ppl says! Yeah so I don't use it no more... for some
odd thing unlike a lot of other ppl I can't seem to get it too work under XP... but know what nope there is no ati or
nvida crap in my pc nope... right now i have a SiS 315 thats has nice 2d and decent 3d... I'm sure enought not
buying ati or nvida! >>



accually i should have said 2 people
RobsTV, and you

You all asume the card is complete sh|te when you haven't even 1) taken it back for a replacement and 2)tried the card in another computer.

 

[Tessier]

Tom did something a bit wrong. I get 48 FPS on my KyroII with very high texture detail (high setting uses only high). Probably he didn't turn on S3TC.

 

[nemesismk2]

<< 1/4 the speed of a GF2 MX, don't make me laugh, I've owned both and that's a load of cr*p!

1/4 the speed in "modern games". In "old games" Kyro II and GF2 MX run fairly equal, and in some Kyro II is faster.

Star Wars Jedi Knight II
Kyro II 32meg 8.7fps
Kyro II 64meg 9.2fps
GF2 MX 37.1fps
GF2 MX440 84.4fps
As this shows, time to move on. >>



It's impossible for me to comment on Star Wars Jedi Knight 2 because Tom gave very little information on the settings he was using, did he use anisotropic filtering, trilinear, was texture compression enabled or disabled?



<< It's funny but I've seen some posts in other forums say that of of course now the Kyro II is dated,
and therefore it of course can not keep up with modern games. Strange though that cards like GF2 MX,
which is even more outdated, don't have thoses same issues.
>>



What issues are you talking about?

I've owned both a GF2 MX and a Kyro 2 and the only time the MX was faster was at 640x480 or using 16bit. At higher resolutions the MX's performance was very bad, usually the Kyro 2 was over twice as fast at 1024x768x32bit.

 

[vedin]

LOL. I've noticed people always pulling up Tom's totally butchered benches too, but they totally ignore Anand's UT2 bench results. For those that either don't feel like looking, or missed it, the Kyro 2 was within a PERCENT of a GF2 Ti200.

 

[Idoxash]

"You all asume the card is complete sh|te when you haven't even 1) taken it back for a replacement and 2)
tried the card in another computer. "

DUDE i think you need to go back over my post and tell me when i said this card was crap! i said many of times
that this card works here me works.....i never own anything from nvida and don't pln too eh! infact this card the
kyro II is still in my athlon pc that i use for my games just it don't work on windows xp! and thats not a res to take
it back to the store when i got it over a year ago prob before you ever herd of the card!

 

[holdencommodore]

"Holden rocks" LOL Holden kicks Ford's arse


Agreed - Tom's benchmark is very suspicious.

I have 3 nVidia cards at home (2 TNT2 M64's and 1 GF2 MX200)..... I've decided to give the other guys a go from now on (just like when i decided to give AMD a go 9 years ago ), so that means no more nVidia.... my next card will either be a ATi, SiS Xabre 400, or Kyro 3 if it is released soonish.

Cheers

 

[vedin]

Wait a second...you're even having problems with Shockwave games? Last time I checked that has nothing to do with any 3d card's acceleration, or 2d for that matter seeing as you're getting it in both. I'd say you have some seriously fudged software issures somewhere in your system. Maybe it's the video card, but I've never heard of anyone having problems with shockwave with any card. I'd almost say re-install, (No not format, install on top of), WinXP to sort any wierd anomolies in your registry and such. I dunno, that's really weird.

 

[mwdx]

Robs, you obviously don't keep up with the kyro stuff. PowerVR is a different kind of company, they don't release new cards or new versions of cards that have a little more bandwidth than the other. They pretty much release one type of chipset at a time. The kyro 2 is a little outdated but still a great card. It's the basis of the soon to be released Kyro 2 SE. Which is going to be awesome. Even if the geforce2 mx cards are better at certain things, they aren't going to match up in certain areas. The ideas behind the kyro is pretty much perfect. Only rendering what is seen is probably one of the best things that somebody could have thought of for the video card industry.