Kushner left more than 100 names off his thrice amended security clearance form

[Starbuck1975]

Your attempts at obfuscation are better than most. People who've been conned simply reject information that should clue them in. That's how it works- the perp gains their confidence. It's why the original term is confidence man.

You give me far too much credit. Obfuscation infers an attempt to make things deliberately ambiguous. There is nothing ambiguous about my assertions. That you choose to disagree with them is what makes this fun.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The answer is pretty easy: tribalism from negative partisanship. People don't vote for candidates, they vote against the hated enemy. It's extremely easy to see when you look at the changes in polling about what republicans value in a candidate.

Tribalism permeates every corner of our society, along geographic, economic and identity politics fault lines. The best counter to tribalism is the shared experiences that bring people together. The Great Depression played a tremendous role in shaping the generation that fought WW2. The civil rights movement and Vietnam did the same for the Baby Boomers. The same perhaps can be said for 9/11, although our response to it I believe fractured and divided our nation, which was perhaps Bin Laden's objective all along.

We both share a mutual respect for the social democracies of Europe. Those nations tend to share two characteristics that America does not. First, culturally homogenous societies, although even that is now rapidly changing. Germany is a very progressive society, especially given its history, but even I noticed how Germans treated the Turkish auslanders. Second, and perhaps more importantly, mandatory government service.

I would love to see our society require one year of mandatory government service for every young person as a unifying force against tribalism. What say you?

 

[Jhhnn]

You give me far too much credit. Obfuscation infers an attempt to make things deliberately ambiguous. There is nothing ambiguous about my assertions. That you choose to disagree with them is what makes this fun.

Riiiight... Trumpsters believe in Trump because they know they're getting snowed... which is what you offered when the ambiguity is removed.

 

[Ackmed]

Funny how you openly admit to having a double standard.

It is not a double standard. When it came out that her emails were not kept as they should have been, people accessing them on her team that did not have a clearance, being printed off, etc until the investigation was over it should have been suspended. That is different that him leaving off names getting a clearance. I also said that if it were here, his clearance would be suspended. I agree with that too, until things can be cleared up. Then either reinstated or revoked. That seems to be the same for each of them, not seeing how you claim a double standard.

Come on Ackmed its a simple question for you to answer. Also trying to bring this thread back on topic. Its about Kushner and his repeated "forgetting" of meeting with foreign agents. Not about who the Democratic candidate for President was. That election is over. Own it and all the crap like the subject of this thread that comes from the outcome of that election.

Again, I did not bring her up first. It was already in discussion, and a lot more relevant that some side conversations going on here. But you don't call those out, hmm. I don't know what you are expecting me to own up to.

I was not on here until just now after I posted that message, I am not here every day. I don't read his messages, there are mostly nothing but name calling, insults, and lacking of anything on topic and substantial. Trolling with nothing good to offer. I tried to have conversations with him when he first joined, found out it was not possible or worth it. I told him I would not respond to him or read his messages, and I have not. To be fair, I am the same with others like him.

Since you quoted it, and I have already said I believe that it would be suspended if it happened where I worked. We don't know what he got roped into, what was said, or anything else. If it is true that he did meet with someone from Russia, tried to get some secret deal, and did not report it as has been said, then again I think his clearance should be suspended. As such, he would not be allowed anywhere that has TS information, talk to anyone about TS information, etc. If that was violated, it would be revoked. I can tell you from experience, that is how I have seen it done first hand. It would be suspended until the investigation was over. It all goes to intent, did he intentionally leave off things to hide meetings or relationships, or did he think it wasn't a big deal, did he forget? We don't know all the answers. If he intentionally left things off to hide shady shit, and they found that out, then he shouldn't get his clearance back. If they come up to another conclusion, it could have a different outcome.

Funny how I give factual information about how this process works, and people try to claim I am siding with him or not owning up to anything. The point of my post was to give an inside perspective on how it works. It is not uncommon at all to have to amend a clearance application. What the amendments are, obviously can matter greatly. Give an non bias assessment, but I am still being bias. Sigh.

 

[Meghan54]

Give an non bias assessment, but I am still being bias. Sigh.

In this usage, the word is BIASED, such as the sentence: "Give a non-biased assessment, but I am still being biased."

Engrish....does you speak it?

 

[cytg111]

Tribalism permeates every corner of our society, along geographic, economic and identity politics fault lines. The best counter to tribalism is the shared experiences that bring people together. The Great Depression played a tremendous role in shaping the generation that fought WW2. The civil rights movement and Vietnam did the same for the Baby Boomers. The same perhaps can be said for 9/11, although our response to it I believe fractured and divided our nation, which was perhaps Bin Laden's objective all along.

We both share a mutual respect for the social democracies of Europe. Those nations tend to share two characteristics that America does not. First, culturally homogenous societies, although even that is now rapidly changing. Germany is a very progressive society, especially given its history, but even I noticed how Germans treated the Turkish auslanders. Second, and perhaps more importantly, mandatory government service.

I would love to see our society require one year of mandatory government service for every young person as a unifying force against tribalism. What say you?

I say most of that rings true to my ears, specially the bolded part, many parts of europe has mandatory service(not necessarily armed forces) and I attribute our willingnes to 'socialize' to this fact. We are 70 years out from the last big one and we still pull together.

 

[Meghan54]

I would love to see our society require one year of mandatory government service for every young person as a unifying force against tribalism. What say you?

Two years, mandatory. You can delay for college, but it must be done after graduating with a bachelor's.

 

[brycejones]

It is not a double standard. When it came out that her emails were not kept as they should have been, people accessing them on her team that did not have a clearance, being printed off, etc until the investigation was over it should have been suspended. That is different that him leaving off names getting a clearance. I also said that if it were here, his clearance would be suspended. I agree with that too, until things can be cleared up. Then either reinstated or revoked. That seems to be the same for each of them, not seeing how you claim a double standard.



Again, I did not bring her up first. It was already in discussion, and a lot more relevant that some side conversations going on here. But you don't call those out, hmm. I don't know what you are expecting me to own up to.

I was not on here until just now after I posted that message, I am not here every day. I don't read his messages, there are mostly nothing but name calling, insults, and lacking of anything on topic and substantial. Trolling with nothing good to offer. I tried to have conversations with him when he first joined, found out it was not possible or worth it. I told him I would not respond to him or read his messages, and I have not. To be fair, I am the same with others like him.

Since you quoted it, and I have already said I believe that it would be suspended if it happened where I worked. We don't know what he got roped into, what was said, or anything else. If it is true that he did meet with someone from Russia, tried to get some secret deal, and did not report it as has been said, then again I think his clearance should be suspended. As such, he would not be allowed anywhere that has TS information, talk to anyone about TS information, etc. If that was violated, it would be revoked. I can tell you from experience, that is how I have seen it done first hand. It would be suspended until the investigation was over. It all goes to intent, did he intentionally leave off things to hide meetings or relationships, or did he think it wasn't a big deal, did he forget? We don't know all the answers. If he intentionally left things off to hide shady shit, and they found that out, then he shouldn't get his clearance back. If they come up to another conclusion, it could have a different outcome.

Funny how I give factual information about how this process works, and people try to claim I am siding with him or not owning up to anything. The point of my post was to give an inside perspective on how it works. It is not uncommon at all to have to amend a clearance application. What the amendments are, obviously can matter greatly. Give an non bias assessment, but I am still being bias. Sigh.

That is a wall of text to not really answer the original question agent asked.

 

[JSt0rm]

ackmed needs to hire an editor.

 

[agent00f]

We both share a mutual respect for the social democracies of Europe. Those nations tend to share two characteristics that America does not. First, culturally homogenous societies, although even that is now rapidly changing. Germany is a very progressive society, especially given its history, but even I noticed how Germans treated the Turkish auslanders.

If this were remotely true you wouldn't be a republican. Keep in mind what the germans did with their racists; it wasn't to form the basis of a party with them.

 

[Starbuck1975]

If this were remotely true you wouldn't be a republican. Keep in mind what the germans did with their racists; it wasn't to form the basis of a party with them.

You've not been paying attention. I was a Republican but that ship sailed long ago. As I've grown older, I've become increasingly liberal, but the DNC tent does not always feel welcoming and has people like you guarding the entrance.

 

[TeeJay1952]

I wonder if contacts were 99 Mr & Mrs Smith and one Boris and Natasha or will it be all Russia all the time?

 

[Ackmed]

In this usage, the word is BIASED, such as the sentence: "Give a non-biased assessment, but I am still being biased."

Engrish....does you speak it?

Yes I do speak English, never claimed to be the best at writing it down, I freely admit to any errors I have. If you are going to attempt to call out all errors in posts here, you will not run out of work soon. Even from your own, but pointing yours out would be petty. Nothing to add to the topic, another worthless post. Thanks! Same as the follow ups that continually have errors in his post. Just trolling along, nothing to add on topic as usual.

That is a wall of text to not really answer the original question agent asked.

Yes I did. I stated that we do not know exactly what happened. We don't know if he got "roped in" anything. We also don't know if he simply "forgot" to add the names. That is what the investigation is for. I would think that I would remember, as it seems fairly significant. That is where intent comes into play, as I said earlier. If he left them off on purpose, or did simply forget. Maybe he has met with so many people, it did slip his mind. Maybe he tried to hide it on purpose. People like him probably meet with many important people from other countries. The findings of the investigation would determine the punishment if any. As I said, it's my opinion that his TS be suspended until that is found out. Then if found he did intentionally hide it for fear of finding out something, revoked.

As I said, the point of my original post was to shed some light on the topic. I don't think anyone here has posted any relevant information about how a clearance is obtained. The topic was split off several times, turning into a pissing match. It is not uncommon to have your application amended, or adding names. Not only did they want where I lived, but where I traveled to which was several more countries. Where I stayed, who I was with, when I went. Cross referenced to both of my passports, looking at the stamps. Wanting all family information which can be very difficult to get, or even know in some cases such as mine. I have seen one person who lived in one state only, never went outside of the state, lived in one house, parents stayed married and no siblings. Took no time to get the clearance. It varies, took me several months. The average here is about 9 months total. I assume he is pretty jet setting, and has many more things to disclose. The idea that he should simply be arrested for amending it is just simply ignorant.

I am not really surprised that the same people want nothing but to argue, still just disappointed. Which is why topics turn out like this all the time.

 

[Meghan54]

Let me address a few things.

First, I was a tad "bad" with my comment.....I apologize.....but given your script trying to apologize for Trump, et al....c'est la vie.

Second, certainly no one has addressed how security clearances are generated by the govt., mostly because that's been addressed ad nauseum in other threads.

As a point of fact, my first job in the military was as an analyst in the ASA, Army Security Agency. Held a TS with access to what was euphemistically termed "special intelligence." I was a "participant" in the 1973 Yom Kipper War....was viewing real time data/images/etc. from the battles. That was tres cool.

It did take months to complete, incl. FBI agents crawling around everywhere I'd lived or visited. Heard about this after the fact. Found it interesting.

Just so you know there are hosts of others who've had security clearances and understand how they're done.

Now, about your apologizing for Kushner/Trump Jr./et al. I do agree that people forget contacts they may have had, esp. if the contact is years ago and/or the contact wasn't what was represented.

But in this case, you attempt to portray and have us accept Kushner's "forgetfulness" on something that happened 5 months, not years, prior to his filing for his security clearance, of a meeting that was obviously with a Russian native (otherwise, why the need for the interpreter?) and who know who else? As of now, the count is, I believe, 8 that were at the meeting.

Wouldn't you agree that forgetting a meeting that happened with a room full of people, one of which is a Russian native, just a few months before filing the paperwork for a clearance a little odd? Are you that forgetful? I know that, even at my 60+ years of age, that's not something I'd soon forget.

Keep on trying to justify their actions, tho.

Yes I do speak English, never claimed to be the best at writing it down, I freely admit to any errors I have. If you are going to attempt to call out all errors in posts here, you will not run out of work soon. Even from your own, but pointing yours out would be petty. Nothing to add to the topic, another worthless post. Thanks! Same as the follow ups that continually have errors in his post. Just trolling along, nothing to add on topic as usual.



Yes I did. I stated that we do not know exactly what happened. We don't know if he got "roped in" anything. We also don't know if he simply "forgot" to add the names. That is what the investigation is for. I would think that I would remember, as it seems fairly significant. That is where intent comes into play, as I said earlier. If he left them off on purpose, or did simply forget. Maybe he has met with so many people, it did slip his mind. Maybe he tried to hide it on purpose. People like him probably meet with many important people from other countries. The findings of the investigation would determine the punishment if any. As I said, it's my opinion that his TS be suspended until that is found out. Then if found he did intentionally hide it for fear of finding out something, revoked.

As I said, the point of my original post was to shed some light on the topic. I don't think anyone here has posted any relevant information about how a clearance is obtained. The topic was split off several times, turning into a pissing match. It is not uncommon to have your application amended, or adding names. Not only did they want where I lived, but where I traveled to which was several more countries. Where I stayed, who I was with, when I went. Cross referenced to both of my passports, looking at the stamps. Wanting all family information which can be very difficult to get, or even know in some cases such as mine. I have seen one person who lived in one state only, never went outside of the state, lived in one house, parents stayed married and no siblings. Took no time to get the clearance. It varies, took me several months. The average here is about 9 months total. I assume he is pretty jet setting, and has many more things to disclose. The idea that he should simply be arrested for amending it is just simply ignorant.

I am not really surprised that the same people want nothing but to argue, still just disappointed. Which is why topics turn out like this all the time.

 

[brycejones]

Yes I do speak English, never claimed to be the best at writing it down, I freely admit to any errors I have. If you are going to attempt to call out all errors in posts here, you will not run out of work soon. Even from your own, but pointing yours out would be petty. Nothing to add to the topic, another worthless post. Thanks! Same as the follow ups that continually have errors in his post. Just trolling along, nothing to add on topic as usual.



Yes I did. I stated that we do not know exactly what happened. We don't know if he got "roped in" anything. We also don't know if he simply "forgot" to add the names. That is what the investigation is for. I would think that I would remember, as it seems fairly significant. That is where intent comes into play, as I said earlier. If he left them off on purpose, or did simply forget. Maybe he has met with so many people, it did slip his mind. Maybe he tried to hide it on purpose. People like him probably meet with many important people from other countries. The findings of the investigation would determine the punishment if any. As I said, it's my opinion that his TS be suspended until that is found out. Then if found he did intentionally hide it for fear of finding out something, revoked.

As I said, the point of my original post was to shed some light on the topic. I don't think anyone here has posted any relevant information about how a clearance is obtained. The topic was split off several times, turning into a pissing match. It is not uncommon to have your application amended, or adding names. Not only did they want where I lived, but where I traveled to which was several more countries. Where I stayed, who I was with, when I went. Cross referenced to both of my passports, looking at the stamps. Wanting all family information which can be very difficult to get, or even know in some cases such as mine. I have seen one person who lived in one state only, never went outside of the state, lived in one house, parents stayed married and no siblings. Took no time to get the clearance. It varies, took me several months. The average here is about 9 months total. I assume he is pretty jet setting, and has many more things to disclose. The idea that he should simply be arrested for amending it is just simply ignorant.

I am not really surprised that the same people want nothing but to argue, still just disappointed. Which is why topics turn out like this all the time.

Another wall of text that still didn't answer the question. You've given reasons why Kushner may need to revise his form, which I'm not surprised that he would.

Serious question: if you get roped into a meeting to trade russian state intel for help on unfreezing russian assets, would you remember to put the names on your security clearance form?

Its a simple question, its from YOUR perspective not trying to get in the the head of Kushner and answer from his perspective.

 

[agent00f]

You've not been paying attention. I was a Republican but that ship sailed long ago. As I've grown older, I've become increasingly liberal, but the DNC tent does not always feel welcoming and has people like you guarding the entrance.

Sure, it's all the libtards fault and you da Real victim.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

An inability to handle a controversy created by her own hand and choosing to respond by committee rather than the tone and resolve of her own voice as a leader.

Her failure to communicate the nuances of her policy positions into a rationale for her candidacy.

Choosing to attack Trump on his character rather than stand on the merits of her own accomplishments.

Taking for granted a Democrat firewall that was splintering before her own eyes.

How is any Canidate expected to win against another Canidate who is supported by a hostle Super Power with unlimited funds, unlimited expertise and no possibility of ever being held accountable?

 

[UberNeuman]

How is any Canidate expected to win against another Canidate who is supported by a hostle Super Power with unlimited funds, unlimited expertise and no possibility of ever being held accountable?

They're not expected to - as seen by what a sham of a poster 75 is... He's full of talk, empty on personal responsibility.

 

[agent00f]

They're not expected to - as seen by what a sham of a poster 75 is... He's full of talk, empty on personal responsibility.

Slate did a piece recently discussing this self-interested dishonesty: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/07/the-wasted-mind-of-nebraska-sen-ben-sasse.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Slate did a piece recently discussing this self-interested dishonesty: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/07/the-wasted-mind-of-nebraska-sen-ben-sasse.html

So that makes Sasse Jared's BFF, or what?

 

[agent00f]

So that makes Sasse Jared's BFF, or what?

Starbuck is a Sasse wannabe.

 

[Starbuck1975]

How is any Canidate expected to win against another Canidate who is supported by a hostle Super Power with unlimited funds, unlimited expertise and no possibility of ever being held accountable?

It's hard to fight an enemy when you go into said fight having already cut off your own arms and legs, and our own media did most of the work for the Russians.

This does not mean Trump should not be held accountable for colluding with a hostile foreign power.

The Russians chose to strike because Clinton was an easy target. I doubt we would be where we are today had the candidate been Sanders, Warren or someone like Obama.

 

[Starbuck1975]

They're not expected to - as seen by what a sham of a poster 75 is... He's full of talk, empty on personal responsibility.

Stick to Gong Show videos. I do so enjoy how you bandwagon.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Slate did a piece recently discussing this self-interested dishonesty: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/07/the-wasted-mind-of-nebraska-sen-ben-sasse.html

You should read the article again. I don't know much about Sasse, but the author seems to indicate that he is a conservative of reasonably consistent ideals, but has yet to find the voice to break from party line votes and act more in line with his convictions. The author distinguishes Sasse from Rubio's and Cruz's exploitative approach to politics.

The article wasn't a hit piece nor does it support your conclusions. As usual, you're flailing that wet noodle in an attempt to score points.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Sure, it's all the libtards fault and you da Real victim.

I think we should change your name. AgentFail is inaccurate because you are actually quite good at whatever it is you think you are doing. I actual admire the consistency and quality of your nonsense.

AgentFlail is perhaps a better name.