Kushner left more than 100 names off his thrice amended security clearance form

[agent00f]

Affluenza is a good observation. That the sons of the privileged class are so used to circumventing laws, that they assumed the same rules would apply once they decided to try and play government. Trump will inevitably pardon both, but their smug arrogance through all of this speaks volumes of their character.

As a veteran, I piss on that picture of Kush wearing body armor with his country club attire beneath.

Forgot to blame it all on obama/clinton somehow, and you call yourself a conservative.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Forgot to blame it all on obama/clinton somehow, and you call yourself a conservative.

I am sorry I broke the binary logic of your mental model.

 

[agent00f]

I am sorry I broke the binary logic of your mental model.

I'm sure it's just an oversight on your part after being labeled a shill.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm sure it's just an oversight on your part after being labeled a shill.

No, your intellectual impotence cannot comprehend a world where someone can hold conservative values but find common cause with liberals in the face of what modern conservatism has become.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Boys ( @Starbuck1975 @agent00f ) stop it. Enough with the off thread topics

 

[Starbuck1975]

Boys ( @Starbuck1975 @agent00f ) stop it. Enough with the off thread topics

Out of respect for your request I will disengage

 

[Humpy]

Derp

Agreed, I thought it might help to quote the source of your argument though.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Agreed, I thought it might help to quote the source of your argument though.

The Russians didnt create Clinton's weaknesses, they exploited them. Rather than choose to understand why they were so effective, you choose to instead derp.

 

[zinfamous]

Who was President when Russia undermined our election?

And which president never denied the facts of Russia's meddling, and actually made decisions to sanction Russia--at the very least: a simple response to their actions? Which President was that? Which president has only ever worked in the realm of reality, and which president is perpetually fueled by pure, unadulterated, nonsense lies and conspiracy bullshit?

Which one? Let's discuss this honestly, shall we?

Further, which president and his family has actively courted and engaged with Russian operatives in order to undermine our elections? Which one? let's discuss the facts.

 

[Starbuck1975]

and who never denied the facts of Russia's meddling, and actually made decisions to sanction Russia--simply respond to their actions? Which President was that? Which president has only ever worked in the realm of reality, and which president is perpetually fueled by pure, unadulterated, nonsense lies and conspiracy bullshit?

which one? Let's discuss this honestly, shall we?

further, which president and his family has actively courted and engaged with Russian operatives in order to undermine our elections? which one? let's discuss the facts.

The answer to your question is simple. Trump. Trump is a traitor. By all indications, he, his sons and surrogates all deserve prison and the Republican Party deserves nothing but shame for allowing this in the name of party loyalty. I keep hoping someone from the GOP side will demonstrate an announce of courage or leadership. I've been absent from the forums because the Republicans are indefensible in this and the Democrats are uttery ineffective.

The only person I respect in all of this is Comey.

All of this was easily avoidable had it not been her turn.

 

[zinfamous]

The Russians didnt create Clinton's weaknesses, they exploited them. Rather than choose to understand why they were so effective, you choose to instead derp.

Clinton's weaknesses are singly tied to the type of brainwashed, dipshit voter that would vote for a sociopath like Trump, simply due to decades of GOP agitprop that created the "anyone but Hillary" psychosis. That is it. There is nothing more to it. You can't name a single "Hillary scandal" that has a modicum of factual basis to it. Not a single fucking one.

Further, the Russians more effectively exploited the easily discernible weaknesses of the fragile ego and ever-shrinking mind of our egregiously proud, know-nothing dipshit, Trump. That is their real coup. dangle carrots in front of him, pile up the decades of crimes committed by himself and his family, and strike when this retrograde asshole has gained real power. Putin is basically operating in the way that J Edgar Hoover always wanted to.

 

[zinfamous]

The answer to your question is simple. Trump. Trump is a traitor. By all indications, he, his sons and surrogates all deserve prison and the Republican Party deserves nothing but shame for allowing this in the name of party loyalty. I keep hoping someone from the GOP side would demonstrate an announce of courage.

The only person I respect in all of this is Comey.

All of this was easily avoidable had it not been her turn.

You were correct until the final idiotic sentence. Again, it's all Clinton's fault for being Clinton, and dealing with the masses of unwashed, mewling morons that the GOP have created, for just this moment?

No: it is the fault of the GOP, plain and simple. No person, no party has more responsibility for the current state of our republic, over the last 3+ decades, than the toxic anti-Americanism that has been bleeding from the rotten core of the fucking GOP. IF that isn't plainly obvious to you, then you are equally tainted. But hey, at least we can all get better.

If you can't look at sweaty shitstains like Mitch McConnel and Paul Ryan without unbridled contempt in your heart, then you are the problem. But again, people are adaptable, we are capable of recovering from this mess (meaning: The US has been down this road before, many times. But it actually takes a common sense of decency and responsibility from everyone to get back there)

If it's not sinking in, let me provide for you the words of the great, proud conservative, Mr Goldwater, to explain exactly what the "Reagan revolution" did to the GOP. This is exactly why the GOP is poised to rip this country asunder, unless these sociopaths in power are removed and secular, progressive, humane liberal democracy can be restored, exactly how this country was founded:

Make no mistake, THAT^ is exactly what the GOP has become, and it is nothing short of anti-American, theocratic tyranny. Any vote for these assholes is a vote against America, full stop. No compromises.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Russians didnt create Clinton's weaknesses, they exploited them. Rather than choose to understand why they were so effective, you choose to instead derp.

They were so effective because Repub propagandists have been scrambling Conservatives' brains for decades. Crazifying the poor bastards into voting for trickle down, again, cuz God, guns, gays, abortion, illegals & Terrarists! Cuz smaller gubmint! Cuz repeal Obamacare! Cuz poor Bernie! Cuz Crooked Hillary! Lock her up!

The Russians just threw fuel on the fire that Repubs started long ago.

 

[jackstar7]

The Russians didnt create Clinton's weaknesses, they exploited them. Rather than choose to understand why they were so effective, you choose to instead derp.

Can you elaborate on her weaknesses?

I remember her calling out Trump for all of this before it even was anywhere near coming to light.

 

[Starbuck1975]

They were so effective because Repub propagandists have been scrambling Conservatives' brains for decades. Crazifying the poor bastards into voting for trickle down, again, cuz God, guns, gays, abortion, illegals & Terrarists! Cuz smaller gubmint! Cuz repeal Obamacare! Cuz poor Bernie! Cuz Crooked Hillary! Lock her up!

The Russians just threw fuel on the fire that Repubs started long ago.

Agreed, but a fire requires oxygen, which Clinton provided in ample supply

 

[Starbuck1975]

Can you elaborate on her weaknesses?

I remember her calling out Trump for all of this before it even was anywhere near coming to light.

An inability to handle a controversy created by her own hand and choosing to respond by committee rather than the tone and resolve of her own voice as a leader.

Her failure to communicate the nuances of her policy positions into a rationale for her candidacy.

Choosing to attack Trump on his character rather than stand on the merits of her own accomplishments.

Taking for granted a Democrat firewall that was splintering before her own eyes.

 

[SMOGZINN]

An inability to handle a controversy created by her own hand and choosing to respond by committee rather than the tone and resolve of her own voice as a leader.

Her failure to communicate the nuances of her policy positions into a rationale for her candidacy.

Choosing to attack Trump on his character rather than stand on the merits of her own accomplishments.

Taking for granted a Democrat firewall that was splintering before her own eyes.

I'm not really sure what Clinton could have done against the email scandal. I think she handled it as best she could, there was just to much aligned against her to ever get ahead of it.

Attacking Trump on his character was needed. The main problem with Trump is that he does not have the character to be President. It is obvious now, and she was trying to show that to the undecideds.

The main problem with Clinton is that the DNC decided to ignore her will of their own base and pull every dirty trick in the book to get her the nomination. This caused a small riff in the party and left a bad taste in the mouths of the all important undecideds. She was the wrong candidate.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You were correct until the final idiotic sentence. Again, it's all Clinton's fault for being Clinton, and dealing with the masses of unwashed, mewling morons that the GOP have created, for just this moment?

No: it is the fault of the GOP, plain and simple. No person, no party has more responsibility for the current state of our republic, over the last 3+ decades, than the toxic anti-Americanism that has been bleeding from the rotten core of the fucking GOP. IF that isn't plainly obvious to you, then you are equally tainted. But hey, at least we can all get better.

If you can't look at sweaty shitstains like Mitch McConnel and Paul Ryan without unbridled contempt in your heart, then you are the problem. But again, people are adaptable, we are capable of recovering from this mess (meaning: The US has been down this road before, many times. But it actually takes a common sense of decency and responsibility from everyone to get back there)

If it's not sinking in, let me provide for you the words of the great, proud conservative, Mr Goldwater, to explain exactly what the "Reagan revolution" did to the GOP. This is exactly why the GOP is poised to rip this country asunder, unless these sociopaths in power are removed and secular, progressive, humane liberal democracy can be restored, exactly how this country was founded:

Make no mistake, THAT^ is exactly what the GOP has become, and it is nothing short of anti-American, theocratic tyranny. Any vote for these assholes is a vote against America, full stop. No compromises.

The current Republican leadership is an absolute shit stain on American history. That is a distinct and different conversation from Clinton's flaws and vulnerabilities as a candidate. You need to take emotion out of the discussion and separate the two.

 

[zinfamous]

Agreed, but a fire requires oxygen, which Clinton provided in ample supply

what oxygen? you still haven't given us "what" exactly Clinton provided to anger people. What is the "what"? no more metaphors: actual, real things that Hillary has done. Not allegations, not conspiracies, not nonsense that has never been shown to be anything but vapor from the addled minds of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove.

specifics, please. Stop outing yourself as one of the easily-duped, proud know-nothing GOP supporters that gave us this wretched state.

 

[Starbuck1975]

what oxygen? you still haven't given us "what" exactly Clinton provided to anger people. What is the "what"? no more metaphors: actual, real things that Hillary has done. Not allegations, not conspiracies, not nonsense that has never been shown to be anything but vapor from the addled minds of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove.

specifics, please. Stop outing yourself as one of the easily-duped, proud know-nothing GOP supporters that gave us this wretched state.

Why did she lose to Obama?

 

[zinfamous]

Why did she lose to Obama?

Obama, like Trump, was a "Revolution" candidate. Don't mistake that I think Hilary Clinton is flawless--she isn't--I just want to know why she was a bad candidate other than decades of agitprop nonsense convincing people that she was.

But props: Smogzinn and yourself engaged in this honestly, I think: particularly Hilary's refusal to address her base supporters, the dem base in the rust belt, and just assume they would be with her. The Democratic party has become very corporatist; the Clinton turnover of the party became a "solve big problems through big ideas and let the statistics work things out" type of party...which means lots of money for lots of extremely smart interest groups, where the people that are hoping to benefit from those fixes, largely become those actual statistics. The majority of the country is a bit better off, but the perpetual losers in these games never really recover.

Trump was wise to seize on that. I agree that there was nothing more that she could do with the emails--that is on the moronic republican base. same with Ben-Gazi, same with whatever story about her murdering everyone next to her. Same with bullshit about Uranium and Hillary apparently being the only 1 out of 16 individuals that mattered in that deal. The emails from the DNC were not all that revelatory--the RNC was doing the same fucking thing to get rid of Trump, and none of that was secret. But "because Hilary," that only became an issue for her. Bernie was, for dems, the next Obama candidate. Obviously that is the fault of the DNC for refusing to accept this and yes--I get the "it's her time" criticism, but like Trump, Bernie wasn't really a member of the party. His base were and remain neophytes in the political world (just like Trump's base). When you consider that Bernie's most virulent supporters easily migrated over to Trump, you have to wonder why they bitch and moan about the DNC being unfair to their Bernie, when their real goals were not quite in line with the actual success of this country. Moving over to Trump, simply because "not Hilary" is not a rational decision, and it's hard to consider that the DNC's activity against him would have made that much of a difference, when the core voters that kept him mildly competitive were so easily compromised by the same sort of GOP agitprop that defined the "anyone but Hilary" disease. ....and I would have voted for Bernie in the primaries if my state would have allowed me, and I definitely preferred him to Hillary, but that is not to say that I don't thin Hillary would make a fine president. She absolutely would.

people bitch about the DNC and their model of Super delegates. Well, imagine if the GOP had that, which would have prevented this blackmailed, criminal traitor from obtaining the most powerful (well, not anymore) position in the world?

But again, whatever it takes to stick with "not the GOP's fault!"

To be clearer: Hilary is not a bad candidate simply because "people hate her because of decades of being lied to about her." What people think, as irrationally and stupid as they are about believing these lies, doesn't create a sudden truth that this person is now actually those lies.

Hilary was a bad candidate because she ran a shitty campaign in very specific areas. You can't ignore Trump and not attack his character, you absolutely must do this, but yes: she obviously needed a more cohesive argument for "why me?" that wasn't generally: "not this guy!" Now, her policies were out there for everyone to see, but she was unable to get this across effectively. Obama was and is a phenomenon on the podium, speaking to people. Hilary was, many many years ago, a master at this as well, but she sort of sold herself out to become a "proper" southern First Lady when Bill was leading Arkansas. If Hilary had managed to restore the old Hilary, it would have been another game changer (Hell, Dubya managed to reinvent his "Connecticut Yankee elitist, not-really-from Texas" persona that lost him his Texas congress seat into some sort of hayseed natural-born Texas idiot good boy persona, only a decade or so later)

 

[Pens1566]

Back to the OP:

If this were John Q Citizen, they'd already be charged. 4 counts. One for each iteration.

 

[ivwshane]

Never said war. How can a sitting, well-respected and popular President just sit back paralyzed when there is ample evidence starting to form of a foreign power actively working to undermine the foundation of our entire democracy.

No you just posted examples where every response was a declaration of war.

So what should he have done then?

Funny how you complain that Obama should have done something (he did so something you just refuse to acknowledge it because it would debunk your narrative), but the current sitting president isn't only doing nothing but he's barely even acknowledge any attack took place. You've got some pretty fucked up priorities if you really are concerned about an attack on our democracy.

 

[agent00f]

No, your intellectual impotence cannot comprehend a world where someone can hold conservative values but find common cause with liberals in the face of what modern conservatism has become.

No, I just see the world for what it is, in this case simply another trite conservative shill predictably desperate to divert blame everything their own did onto clinton/obama or whatever. To your credit, you're evidently pretty good at playing the dumber liberals same as buckshot.

The answer to your question is simple. Trump. Trump is a traitor. By all indications, he, his sons and surrogates all deserve prison and the Republican Party deserves nothing but shame for allowing this in the name of party loyalty. I keep hoping someone from the GOP side will demonstrate an announce of courage or leadership. I've been absent from the forums because the Republicans are indefensible in this and the Democrats are uttery ineffective.

The only person I respect in all of this is Comey.

All of this was easily avoidable had it not been her turn.

For example, it's rather clever for a hardcore republican to admit their party is terrible (not that they've ever abandon it even if all their peers molested children), and then in the same fair and balanced breath proclaim the liberals are just as bad. This right after trying to pretend you'll respect the topic of this thread. Now you've got these guys strung along discussing everything flaw they see in clinton or whatever:

I'm not really sure what Clinton could have done against the email scandal. I think she handled it as best she could, there was just to much aligned against her to ever get ahead of it.

Attacking Trump on his character was needed. The main problem with Trump is that he does not have the character to be President. It is obvious now, and she was trying to show that to the undecideds.

The main problem with Clinton is that the DNC decided to ignore her will of their own base and pull every dirty trick in the book to get her the nomination. This caused a small riff in the party and left a bad taste in the mouths of the all important undecideds. She was the wrong candidate.

Obama, like Trump, was a "Revolution" candidate. Don't mistake that I think Hilary Clinton is flawless--she isn't--I just want to know why she was a bad candidate other than decades of agitprop nonsense convincing people that she was.

But props: Smogzinn and yourself engaged in this honestly, I think: particularly Hilary's refusal to address her base supporters, the dem base in the rust belt, and just assume they would be with her. The Democratic party has become very corporatist; the Clinton turnover of the party became a "solve big problems through big ideas and let the statistics work things out" type of party...which means lots of money for lots of extremely smart interest groups, where the people that are hoping to benefit from those fixes, largely become those actual statistics. The majority of the country is a bit better off, but the perpetual losers in these games never really recover.

Trump was wise to seize on that. I agree that there was nothing more that she could do with the emails--that is on the moronic republican base. same with Ben-Gazi, same with whatever story about her murdering everyone next to her. Same with bullshit about Uranium and Hillary apparently being the only 1 out of 16 individuals that mattered in that deal. The emails from the DNC were not all that revelatory--the RNC was doing the same fucking thing to get rid of Trump, and none of that was secret. But "because Hilary," that only became an issue for her. Bernie was, for dems, the next Obama candidate. Obviously that is the fault of the DNC for refusing to accept this and yes--I get the "it's her time" criticism, but like Trump, Bernie wasn't really a member of the party. His base were and remain neophytes in the political world (just like Trump's base). When you consider that Bernie's most virulent supporters easily migrated over to Trump, you have to wonder why they bitch and moan about the DNC being unfair to their Bernie, when their real goals were not quite in line with the actual success of this country. Moving over to Trump, simply because "not Hilary" is not a rational decision, and it's hard to consider that the DNC's activity against him would have made that much of a difference, when the core voters that kept him mildly competitive were so easily compromised by the same sort of GOP agitprop that defined the "anyone but Hilary" disease. ....and I would have voted for Bernie in the primaries if my state would have allowed me, and I definitely preferred him to Hillary, but that is not to say that I don't thin Hillary would make a fine president. She absolutely would.

people bitch about the DNC and their model of Super delegates. Well, imagine if the GOP had that, which would have prevented this blackmailed, criminal traitor from obtaining the most powerful (well, not anymore) position in the world?

But again, whatever it takes to stick with "not the GOP's fault!"

To be clearer: Hilary is not a bad candidate simply because "people hate her because of decades of being lied to about her." What people think, as irrationally and stupid as they are about believing these lies, doesn't create a sudden truth that this person is now actually those lies.

Hilary was a bad candidate because she ran a shitty campaign in very specific areas. You can't ignore Trump and not attack his character, you absolutely must do this, but yes: she obviously needed a more cohesive argument for "why me?" that wasn't generally: "not this guy!" Now, her policies were out there for everyone to see, but she was unable to get this across effectively. Obama was and is a phenomenon on the podium, speaking to people. Hilary was, many many years ago, a master at this as well, but she sort of sold herself out to become a "proper" southern First Lady when Bill was leading Arkansas. If Hilary had managed to restore the old Hilary, it would have been another game changer (Hell, Dubya managed to reinvent his "Connecticut Yankee elitist, not-really-from Texas" persona that lost him his Texas congress seat into some sort of hayseed natural-born Texas idiot good boy persona, only a decade or so later)

The reason why liberals lose is because they literally fall for every little trite degenerate game out there, and they have the gall to believe conservatives are the dumb ones.

 

[kage69]

If you can't look at sweaty shitstains like Mitch McConnel and Paul Ryan without unbridled contempt in your heart, then you are the problem.

This really can't be emphasized enough, IMO.

Excellent post zin, and I applaud you for reminding people of what a conservative politician with a brain and morals looks like.

Poor guy, must be down there spinning at a rate near or equal to that of Murrows and Buckley.