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Krugman VS the market

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Thump553 said:
Krugman was right two years ago. He was basically patted on the head, then ignored and our half-scale stimulus got us back to zero. To need growth we need a full scale stimulus CCC type hiring, just like in the Depression. As shown by the August job numbers, the cut back in government employment is wrecking the economy.

Krugman is also correct that the deficit is a problem for a few years down the road.

Unfortunately it is almost certain Krugman will be ignored again-not because Obama disagrees with him, but any stimulus to increase employment is a no-starter with the grand old teabag party.
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Yeah, I wonder how much of this was Krugman being ignored versus the political reality of how large a stimulus they could push through Congress at the time. Obama had some political capital then (unlike now) but even so they could only get a couple R votes for the stimulus they did pass.
 
frostedflakes said:
The money they've been saving for retirement now being worth 40% of what it was 30 years ago isn't an assault on the poor? Not saying it is the only problem they have to contend with, but inflation certainly doesn't help the poor, it's incredibly regressive. What little money they could afford to set aside and save is devalued significantly.

Also, depending on the basket of goods used, annual inflation rate is a lot higher than 3%. Government loves to fudge the figures, they changed how it was calculated back in the 80s I think, probably to make price inflation look less severe than it actually is.
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Retirement investing should easily beat 3% annual inflation. If it's not there are other, greater problems to address. And again, prices rise due to more than just currency devaluation, which is what the "OMG inflation" crowd is ignoring.
 
Thump553 said:
Krugman was right two years ago. He was basically patted on the head, then ignored and our half-scale stimulus got us back to zero. To need growth we need a full scale stimulus CCC type hiring, just like in the Depression. As shown by the August job numbers, the cut back in government employment is wrecking the economy.

Krugman is also correct that the deficit is a problem for a few years down the road.

Unfortunately it is almost certain Krugman will be ignored again-not because Obama disagrees with him, but any stimulus to increase employment is a no-starter with the grand old teabag party.
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If only the Dems had the power of the GOP, eh? Hell, even when theyre a minority, they get shit passed they want, deny Dems what they want, and get the POTUS to bow to their wants! Amazing isnt it?
 
cubby1223 said:
He's a keyboard hero, and we need respect that.
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armchair.expert.jpg
 
blackangst1 said:
If only the Dems had the power of the GOP, eh? Hell, even when theyre a minority, they get shit passed they want, deny Dems what they want, and get the POTUS to bow to their wants! Amazing isnt it?
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Not really. Take a hostage and you can get a lot of folks to do what you want.

I love how one "failed" stimulus that kept us out of an outright depression is somehow a greater failure than 30 years of tax cuts on the jobs creators and other assorted rightwing policies that steered us there in the first place.
 
Gonad the Barbarian said:
Not really. Take a hostage and you can get a lot of folks to do what you want.

I love how one "failed" stimulus that kept us out of an outright depression is somehow a greater failure than 30 years of tax cuts on the jobs creators and other assorted rightwing policies that steered us there in the first place.
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Thanks for making my point 😉
 
boohoo cry babies. So you dont have any real economic experience. Yet you want to opine about what we should or shouldnt do without ANY experience in the subject? I'm no economist. I like how society is where we all dont have to be an expert on everything because back when that was the case we lived in tents made of animal skins.

The problem is retards who think one way and assume how they think is correct when it has nothing to do with shit. For instance in europe they cant print any more money so their debt is tied to basically a gold standard. Can your thick skulls figure out how that is different from our situation? No?
 
JSt0rm said:
boohoo cry babies. So you dont have any real economic experience. Yet you want to opine about what we should or shouldnt do without ANY experience in the subject? I'm no economist. I like how society is where we all dont have to be an expert on everything because back when that was the case we lived in tents made of animal skins.

The problem is retards who think one way and assume how they think is correct when it has nothing to do with shit. For instance in europe they cant print any more money so their debt is tied to basically a gold standard. Can your thick skulls figure out how that is different from our situation? No?
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lol, it's like he is a robot. Same shit spews out of his mouth with every post.
 
nick1985 said:
The way you speak tells so much about you, I hope you see that.
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Nick, I come here to laugh at people like you. So you dont want to respond because you feel hurt I called you a idiot on more then one occasion? Thats fine dont respond then. Nobody cares about you. But when you DO respond and you have nothing to add but "look how he talks to me waaaa" well then you look dumb.
 
JSt0rm said:
Nick, I come here to laugh at people like you. So you dont want to respond because you feel hurt I called you a idiot on more then one occasion? Thats fine dont respond then. Nobody cares about you. But when you DO respond and you have nothing to add but "look how he talks to me waaaa" well then you look dumb.
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Yep, can't go a single post without a personal insult. Whoever programmed you did great. :thumbsup:
 
blackangst1 said:
If only the Dems had the power of the GOP, eh? Hell, even when theyre a minority, they get shit passed they want, deny Dems what they want, and get the POTUS to bow to their wants! Amazing isnt it?
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It's a function of game theory. Hostage takers don't care about the hostage, in this case, the economy of a broad middle class. The hostage is just a means to an end, in this case the creation of a new Gilded Age, and the destruction of the power of democracy, the govt of the people. They seek corporate oligarchy.

They'll destroy the village to save it, congratulate themselves when they have, Blame Obama! if at all possible, when they're the actual perps.
 
Gonad the Barbarian said:
Retirement investing should easily beat 3% annual inflation. If it's not there are other, greater problems to address. And again, prices rise due to more than just currency devaluation, which is what the "OMG inflation" crowd is ignoring.
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Don't know why so many people seem to downplay inflation, though. Sure, return on something like a Roth IRA will hopefully be higher than the inflation rate, but even so 3% (conservatively) isn't anything to scoff at. Every year the money you have is devalued and 3% of your wealth basically just disappears. $300 of that $10k in savings essentially vanishes into thin air. If this happened under any other circumstances people would be irate, but when it's due to inflation they just shrug it off and say "oh well."

I think a lot of the population assumes that prices go up over time and that's just the way economies work, when in reality it's largely a result of fiscal policy by the government and need not occur.

And yes, there are other factors that affect prices. Cost of raw materials, cost of labor, etc. Oil, for example, is getting more expensive to find and pull out of the ground, so that will be a factor in energy prices. But for other industries costs like labor are probably lower than ever due to manufacturing being shifted over to China and other countries.
 
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frostedflakes said:
I think a lot of the population assumes that prices go up over time and that's just the way economies work, when in reality it's largely a result of fiscal policy by the government and need not occur.
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That's just wrong. That is the way economies work. Keeping the money supply stagnant keeps the economy stagnant. You can't have economic expansion without expansion of the money supply. And that's more of a result of fractional reserve lending than government spending anyway.
 
frostedflakes said:
Don't know why so many people seem to downplay inflation, though. Sure, return on something like a Roth IRA will hopefully be higher than the inflation rate, but even so 3% (conservatively) isn't anything to scoff at. Every year the money you have is devalued and 3% of your wealth basically just disappears. $300 of that $10k in savings essentially vanishes into thin air. If this happened under any other circumstances people would be irate, but when it's due to inflation they just shrug it off and say "oh well."

I think a lot of the population assumes that prices go up over time and that's just the way economies work, when in reality it's largely a result of fiscal policy by the government and need not occur.

And yes, there are other factors that affect prices. Cost of raw materials, cost of labor, etc. Oil, for example, is getting more expensive to find and pull out of the ground, so that will be a factor in energy prices. But for other industries costs like labor are probably lower than ever due to manufacturing being shifted over to China and other countries.
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I think inflation is more complicated in terms of 'winners and losers'.

It seems it's long been a normal part of the 'economic cycle' which shifts who has how much.

For example, FDR used inflation to try to shift things to be better for the people, with results I'm not sure were what he wanted.

It is an important and serious issue. To answer your question, I suspect part of it is that the public has long had low inflation.

When we have high inflation, it'll get a lot of attention.

When will we have that? Hard to say. It's seemingly inevitable at some point if we continue our debt problem in the longer term.

I'm amazed how much gold has gone up in the low-inflation time frame.
 
Krugman is as usual is right, and the right wingers continue to denigrate him because their party has no answers.
 
frostedflakes said:
Don't know why so many people seem to downplay inflation, though. Sure, return on something like a Roth IRA will hopefully be higher than the inflation rate, but even so 3% (conservatively) isn't anything to scoff at. Every year the money you have is devalued and 3% of your wealth basically just disappears. $300 of that $10k in savings essentially vanishes into thin air. If this happened under any other circumstances people would be irate, but when it's due to inflation they just shrug it off and say "oh well."

I think a lot of the population assumes that prices go up over time and that's just the way economies work, when in reality it's largely a result of fiscal policy by the government and need not occur.

And yes, there are other factors that affect prices. Cost of raw materials, cost of labor, etc. Oil, for example, is getting more expensive to find and pull out of the ground, so that will be a factor in energy prices. But for other industries costs like labor are probably lower than ever due to manufacturing being shifted over to China and other countries.
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3% Inflation is only a problem if you've been stuffing your money in your mattress.
 
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