Kodiak Bear vs African Lion

[JamesV]

There's a video on YouTube of a Grizzly hauling an adult male Moose out of some guy's driveway (search for it).

Would have taken a pride of lionesses to take down that moose, and even if they worked perfectly in concert, they never would have been able to move the carcass ten feet.

No matter how large or heavy, a big cat will never have that sheer power of strength. If the cat gets an initial lock on bite to the bear's neck then it could win, but 9 times out of 10, the bear is just going to crush and tear apart the cat.

 

[darkxshade]

Grizzlies are widely accepted as the predator that brought on the extinction of the dinosaurs. And here we are discussing a laughable battle between it and the Lion? What mockery is this of such a divine creature?

 

[brainhulk]

http://youtu.be/OBJ-MpPBDug

hahahhaha

 

[Silver Prime]

There's a video on YouTube of a Grizzly hauling an adult male Moose out of some guy's driveway (search for it).

Would have taken a pride of lionesses to take down that moose, and even if they worked perfectly in concert, they never would have been able to move the carcass ten feet.

No matter how large or heavy, a big cat will never have that sheer power of strength. If the cat gets an initial lock on bite to the bear's neck then it could win, but 9 times out of 10, the bear is just going to crush and tear apart the cat.

I wouldn't favor a lioness over a bear of the status of grizzly and kodiak or polar bear, she would lack the durability; and even if she would win it would be from luck in a 10/10 type ranking she would fair badly, but comparing feats, the lion or as you said lioness; is still by far superior to any brown bears kill...

Bull buffalo>>>>>>Bull moose

Yes lionesses using the team effort is increasing there survival rate, but it dosent mean they cant do it alone; it just means they are smarter.

I can show you a few accounts of lionesses killing male tigers; so she is still in the vicinity of atleast showing game and bringing down the bruin occaisionaly...
A fight between a lioness and a bear at Bostock's zoo in the cyclorama building yesterday resulted in the death of the bear in just about one round
Fight at Bostock's Zoo Was a Very Brief One. Animals Had Been Let Out for an Airing and Bruno Started Hostilities. Queenie Struck Him on the Head and Sunk Her Teeth Into His Neck.
Mar 5, 1902
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/boston/...Globe&desc=LIONESS+KILLS+A+BEAR.&pqatl=google

But we would in term use a male...the superior...so in this case, the male lion fits the bill, he has killed the bear and his kin alot more then vice versa.

The bear wouldn't just be able to dispatch the lion, because the lion is equal in power and strength on average...

The lion’s power was able to hold off a jeep…

Feats go to the lion such as being just as strong as the average grizzly; faster than the bear in agility, dexterity and evasive manuvering, killing animals that dwarf the bears size and durability with the pride or alone, who has already killed bears more often than bears have killed lions...has a bigger skull for a harder bite, toppled with longer and bigger canines for more damage per bite, is more durable where it counts; the throat and belly.

Has better claws specificaly made for killing not a E.g tool that can be a alternate source of killing, and are not retractable, in which case a bears paw would only swipe an bash back the opponent, while if a lion swipes the shoulder/neck region; the claws would allow to better assist him in holding in place the animal to sink in a throat grab or what ever area he targeted.

The lions bone density in the link I provided a few pages back proves in some places the lion has the densar bones; so if the bear cannot crush another bears bones in a fight, then the bear wont be able to crush something thats even densar then his. An we take the averages, since not even polar bears average a 1,000 pounds, yes there heaviest is a little above 2,000 pounds, but cuting a 1,000 pound human persons weight in half dosent make that the average either; let alone the lion has killed the polar bear more than vice versa and by the size=strength scale then goes Polar>>>Kodiak, the Kodiak dosent have more power since the bear would need atleast 500-1,000 pounds over the lion as that individual. So they would be at near equal strength if its a typical healthy individual or prime specimen of african lion at 600 pounds and kodiak bear at 850...again anything above a 1,000 pounds is considered obese as provided with credentials.

So it stands at 7/10 in favor for the lion...until someone can match the data provided.

 

[Silver Prime]

Grizzlies are widely accepted as the predator that brought on the extinction of the dinosaurs. And here we are discussing a laughable battle between it and the Lion? What mockery is this of such a divine creature?

Hah? Grizzlys>>>Tyranosarus??? Pfwa ha ha ha ha

Check out the size comparison of a brown bear and a Tyrano...
http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9892394/8/

No single any bear, would be taken serious in the top dog predator world of the dinosaurs, buuut, I'm betting a lion Pride' would be able to steak out a claim here and there in the prehistoric days, since the lion is probably the most superior cat out of all the modern and prehistoric big cats, in two defining features...

-The most durable'st big cat to have ever lived. (Battle Mane covers 60% of the body)
-Has the highest amount of sociality out of any cat to ever exist. (Pride of 40)

A pride of 40 lions would be able to bring down a tyrano, shit...if only less then 10 raptors showed game to a tyrano like jurassic park, and since a single lion vs a single raptor is in its benfits of Lion>>>Raptor, I think the full potential of a massive pride could be the share holder against any big cat that ever exisited, thats including saber tooth cat, fatalis; american lion, cave lion ect...an yes; seems far fetch against something like a T-Rex, but thats only because they have the amount of numbers to pull it off, if they can kill elephants who most on the carnivora forum agree Bull elephant>>>T-rex one on one, then the King of the Pre-historic dinosaurs (Tyranasarus rex), would then bow down to the King of the animal Kingdom (Felis leo) the lion on those terms.

1 on 1 though T rex attains his title as King of all land predators on average.

 

[BudAshes]

Hah? Grizzlys>>>Tyranosarus??? Pfwa ha ha ha ha

Check out the size comparison of a brown bear and a Tyrano...
http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9892394/8/

No single any bear, would be taken serious in the top dog predator world of the dinosaurs, buuut, I'm betting a lion Pride' would be able to steak out a claim here and there in the prehistoric days, since the lion is probably the most superior cat out of all the modern and prehistoric big cats, in two defining features...

-The most durable'st big cat to have ever lived. (Battle Mane covers 60% of the body)
-Has the highest amount of sociality out of any cat to ever exist. (Pride of 40)

A pride of 40 lions would be able to bring down a tyrano, shit...if only less then 10 raptors showed game to a tyrano like jurassic park, and since a single lion vs a single raptor is in its benfits of Lion>>>Raptor, I think the full potential of a massive pride could be the share holder against any big cat that ever exisited, thats including saber tooth cat, fatalis; american lion, cave lion ect...an yes; seems far fetch against something like a T-Rex, but thats only because they have the amount of numbers to pull it off, if they can kill elephants who most on the carnivora forum agree Bull elephant>>>T-rex one on one, then the King of the Pre-historic dinosaurs (Tyranasarus rex), would then bow down to the King of the animal Kingdom (Felis leo) the lion on those terms.

1 on 1 though T rex attains his title as King of all land predators on average.

Lions don't stand a chance.

 

[Silver Prime]

Lions don't stand a chance.

With Jedi Obama, I think they stand a chance. ^_^

 

[Silver Prime]

As for size comparison with scaling both next to each other; I found what looks like to be a brown bear and african lion...

It seems accurate to an extent, but I dought this would be considered the average sized mane for the african sub-speices, since it more so looks like a asiatic lion instead. While it shows here on this photo; a african lion being right next to a siberian/bengal tiger, showing the mane can make the lion look like a grizzly bears mass twards tigers...

So who ever made that scale-ing, did a poor job on the average terms, because the mane adds on at-least 30% of mass on average and some show a maximum of 50-60%, of barbary lion-like manes...so if the lion as suggested at a prime specimen of 600 pounds is being compared to a 850 pound Kodiak bear, the lion will look slightly on par; to almost exact same size mass wise, since a good sized mane is 40% of the lions mass, so 40 percent of 600; is around 240 pounds=840. So a african male lion and a Kodiak male bear will look similar in mass having the bears bottom half more larger than the lions; while the entire frontal area of the lion will look more larger and bigger than the kodiaks...since the lions mane can range from 1-3 feet long; thick hair and the bears fur is only 1-3 inches thick and long.

But I find it funny that I cant seem to find any photos of lions and bears in the same shot, only a few here and there; it would be better if we could find more that shows them standing flush next together to show exactly what type of size differentials we are dealing with, in terms averages and prime specimens.

 

[BudAshes]

As for size comparison with scaling both next to each other; I found what looks like to be a brown bear and african lion...

It seems accurate to an extent, but I dought this would be considered the average sized mane for the african sub-speices, since it more so looks like a asiatic lion instead. While it shows here on this photo; a african lion being right next to a siberian/bengal tiger, showing the mane can make the lion look like a grizzly bears mass twards tigers...

So who ever made that scale-ing, did a poor job on the average terms, because the mane adds on at-least 30% of mass on average and some show a maximum of 50-60%, of barbary lion-like manes...so if the lion as suggested at a prime specimen of 600 pounds is being compared to a 850 pound Kodiak bear, the lion will look slightly on par; to almost exact same size mass wise, since a good sized mane is 40% of the lions mass, so 40 percent of 600; is around 240 pounds=840. So a african male lion and a Kodiak male bear will look similar in mass having the bears bottom half more larger than the lions; while the entire frontal area of the lion will look more larger and bigger than the kodiaks...since the lions mane can range from 1-3 feet long; thick hair and the bears fur is only 1-3 inches thick and long.

But I find it funny that I cant seem to find any photos of lions and bears in the same shot, only a few here and there; it would be better if we could find more that shows them standing flush next together to show exactly what type of size differentials we are dealing with, in terms averages and prime specimens.

What is this lion fanboy crap? Kodiak bear is 1200 lbs for a Male. 2 x as big as any wussy ass lion. They are also the most aggresive animals on earth and constantly fight each other in life or death battles honing their skills of combat. A big kodiak is like a ninja mixed with wolverine mixed with superman. A lion is like a little girl mixed with richard simmons mixed with a salmon. And bears love salmon.

 

[Silver Prime]

What is this lion fanboy crap? Kodiak bear is 1200 lbs for a Male. 2 x as big as any wussy ass lion. They are also the most aggresive animals on earth and constantly fight each other in life or death battles honing their skills of combat. A big kodiak is like a ninja mixed with wolverine mixed with superman. A lion is like a little girl mixed with richard simmons mixed with a salmon. And bears love salmon.

Whoa, the butt hurt is strong with this one.

Lets re-cap, 1,200 pounds for a male? Bull-fucking shit, not even polar bears average that much, and they have the title as the worlds largest bear; you sound like one of them tager fanatics...eh mate, ya know nathin of bears so shat ap. Kinda like how every tager fanboy who says tigers dwarf lions, and tagers are heavier by 2x the weight, said so by wikipedia...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_versus_lion

Yet if ya click on my sig, you can see I have almost all of the documentation of the english language has to offer and it exploits wikipedias writer since tigers average 360 pounds as a speices, not 360 kilograms, lol.

We find the average than we round out to the nearest sum of what data is on hand, we must compare weighed weights with visual photos of the specimens next to the other, the same way I did in my sig, since 80% of the internet scavangers go by wiki, you have idiots like you claiming that tigers are the largest cats yet the photos show the tiger is dwarfed nearly every time when next to a african male lion.

Agressive, agressive to what? Every scenario of the accounts I showed the lion was the one doing the attacking; not the bear dumbass, you wouldent even know how to determine agression. Fighting experince from what? Minor territorial fights, the lion has that along with his pride, along with more formidable animals, along with rival prides, all that range in coalitions and large groups...the bear has 3/10ths the amount of fighting expertese the lion has, which can actually be proven, not wishful thinking.

If you wanna prove me wrong, then do it with the data, which you have none, cuz I aint beliving what comes out of your stink wise and beautiful woman mouth and ya want people to take you serious just on bullshit links like wikipedia? Ha! That kinda of sources are laughable, what makes it more funny is your tone, in acting like you know what the fuck you are talking about; yet the score card hasent been budged yet, since you brought what?......

Nothing

 

[LevelSea]

I'm not sure what's more pathetic, to think a lion could even remotely compete with a kodiak bear, or becoming emotionally involved in the argument to begin with.

 

[Silver Prime]

I'm not sure what's more pathetic, to think a lion could even remotely compete with a kodiak bear, or becoming emotionally involved in the argument to begin with.

lol No one is emotionaly tied, I just enjoy seeing ignorant people walk off the planqe, I dont see anything wrong in adressing people in the manner of how they act.

Again, guys like you preach to much about biblical means which fall into high depth fictional, while I stay true with actual logic and science=Facts, logic tells me what I have accumilated proves that african male lions can as you say compete with a Kodiak...what other then a slight weight advantage can you prove the bear takes it? I have brought all the proof in the word such as accounts of lions killing brown bears such as russian and american grizzly's to even the worlds largest existing bear the Polar bear; none of you brought anything to even come close to just a 50/50, yet seem to think that a minor size advantage is suppose to mean anything.

Again, by all means, go by retarded logic of no direct proof, and then call it a fact. XD

 

[WelshBloke]

Whoa, the butt hurt is strong with this one.

Lets re-cap, 1,200 pounds for a male? Bull-fucking shit...

Wiki does indeed say that that is average weight for an adult kodiac across the year (well 1175 lbs but I think you can let him off the 25 lbs) . Up to 1500 lbs at peak times.

 

[BudAshes]

lol No one is emotionaly tied, I just enjoy seeing ignorant people walk off the planqe, I dont see anything wrong in adressing people in the manner of how they act.

Again, guys like you preach to much about biblical means which fall into high depth fictional, while I stay true with actual logic and science=Facts, logic tells me what I have accumilated proves that african male lions can as you say compete with a Kodiak...what other then a slight weight advantage can you prove the bear takes it? I have brought all the proof in the word such as accounts of lions killing brown bears such as russian and american grizzly's to even the worlds largest existing bear the Polar bear; none of you brought anything to even come close to just a 50/50, yet seem to think that a minor size advantage is suppose to mean anything.

Again, by all means, go by retarded logic of no direct proof, and then call it a fact. XD

We all know you are making this up. Kodiak bear male averages over 1k lbs. They are twice as big as lions at least. They get much bigger than their normal brown bear brothers due to feeding on whales and limited contact with man. Next time edumacate yourself before you come and argue with the big dogs.

 

[Silver Prime]

Wiki does indeed say that that is average weight for an adult kodiac across the year (well 1175 lbs but I think you can let him off the 25 lbs) . Up to 1500 lbs at peak times.

Much is not known of there weights in terms credability, the ones with high amounts of credability that go into great details of Biologist and zoologist who have weighed them state the average brown bear is from 400-600 pounds while a prime specimen would be at around 700-900 give a take a few...while the most heaviest ever verified scientificaly was 1320 pounds...

www.science.smith.edu/msi/pdf/i0076-3519-439-01-0001.pdf

Again that 600 kg is of the most raritys the same way there are 8 ft 11 humans or in fact 600kg humans too all provided on my very first post; all the rest we see are of hunters to owners who over exagerated the weights from mere estimations; other wise...we'd belive bullshit scientist bias claims and asure hes telling the truth that theres 18 foot long tigers by just the word of mouth...and no...proof to back anything up.

 

[WelshBloke]

Kodiak bears are a different sub species than grizzly bears.

 

[Silver Prime]

We all know you are making this up. Kodiak bear male averages over 1k lbs. They are twice as big as lions at least. They get much bigger than their normal brown bear brothers due to feeding on whales and limited contact with man. Next time edumacate yourself before you come and argue with the big dogs.

Ahhhh aha ha ha ha, who the fuck is...We all know You know what? Jackshit, big dog? Last time I checked a chi-wawa aint no big dog chump.

kinda like how you stated bears are the most agressive animals in the universe, yet when comparing agression from adults (all the accounts I brought of them fighting) the lion is the attacker which leads and proves who is more Agressive, and all the way to even cubs, the bear is still in a stricken panic of insane fear:

The animals that hold the most agression, are the ones who are born with it, attack a puppy, he crys and howls; attack a human baby and he crys and whines, attack any kitten and they raise there claws and make cat calls of agression...bears are no different than the medicore lot that are less agressive then true carnivores...not speices that have there genus constantly tree'd by the lattars weakest kin...

 

[BudAshes]

I read all of your proofs and they are all crap. I post just a few things and everyone knows I'm right. I'm gonna flex my muscles right now in a victory pose. Better luck next time rookie.

 

[Silver Prime]

I read all of your proofs and they are all crap. I post just a few things and everyone knows I'm right. I'm gonna flex my muscles right now in a victory pose. Better luck next time rookie.

Ha ha ha, yeah; crap meaning I showed accounts of lions killing the Kodiaks kin and superior, Grizzlys and Polars; and you yet to have shown one account of the opposite, then spew out the most insecure come backs I have ever heard, baiting that others who know nothing on subject is your source of determining you are right, lol thats also called delusional, so go and take your delusional pencil neck buck 50 dumbass in front of your mirror and flex your chicken bone muscles while saying you are a 500 pound muscle freak roider.

XD XD XD

 

[LevelSea]

I would direct this lion-apologist to a certain 1973 documentary, narrated by Roger Miller, in which several animals, including a fox, rooster, chicken, and bear absolutely pwn the combined forces of a LION, WOLF and SNAKE.

 

[BudAshes]

Ha ha ha, yeah; crap meaning I showed accounts of lions killing the Kodiaks kin and superior, Grizzlys and Polars; and you yet to have shown one account of the opposite, then spew out the most insecure come backs I have ever heard, baiting that others who know nothing on subject is your source of determining you are right, lol thats also called delusional, so go and take your delusional pencil neck buck 50 dumbass in front of your mirror and flex your chicken bone muscles while saying you are a 500 pound muscle freak roider.

XD XD XD

Dude just admit defeat, no one likes a sore loser. Your punishment for your transgressions is that you have to go blow a kodiak bear. Good luck.

 

[Silver Prime]

Dude just admit defeat, no one likes a sore loser. Your punishment for your transgressions is that you have to go blow a kodiak bear. Good luck.

Ha ha ha, sore loser? Yup that sounds like you al-right, in the scientifical community where they debate these type of things in person, you'd be the laughing stock for all eternalty; since you brought nothing but one catagorie the bear has a slight advantage in, which is size, and size alone is nothing since it is only slight where it also can be debunked since 1 on 1 the lion has killed animals that dwarf the bear 2-4x fold, yet in the other 10 deciding factors the lion wins flawlessly, these debates I've read up on, take the most highest credability of statistics of who kills who, by actual documentation of...who kills who..in this case, we have twice the amount of accounts of...who killed who, which is the lion killed the bear more than vice versa as provided, thats like stacking up all these imaginary numbers of statistics (rules) and saying who wins, but then when the direct verdict is already reached, all that hypotheisis go where?

Right out the window.

So since you have nothing, and... nothing more to contribute; take your butt hurt ass out of here.

 

[Silver Prime]

Whoa I think you should take a breather from this thread there Bud-ash; over 40 minutes and no responce, I just checked your profile, yet you are still viewing the thread? XD XD XD Dont let it get to you that no one will aid you in bringing direct sources of actual kill accounts that superceeds the accumilation of lions killing bear occaisons that I brought, which would mean; this is you in a transversal state...

Budashes:

Every one knows this taller person, with a bigger frame having denser and more robust bones, who is the much heavier guy will win. Says who? Says everyone, no one can tell me other wise, because I know the facts; and this superior persons fighting capabilitys, with much larger fist and arms; and a stronger punch, who is all around the more agressive lethal guy with no shirt on will demolish the smaller guy because everyone agrees with me...give up already.

Prime: What, this guy?

Your phoney statistics just went right out the window, and yet my facts of lions killing bears; still stands.

Good day to you el fago chikana.

XD XD XD XE

 

[EagleKeeper]

Silver Prime

given that you have stated that you are in Hawaii for your complete existence; I would guess that you have been to a zoo and seen lions.

Have you seen in person a grizzly or Kodiak bear.

Doing so will provide you with a little reference that video and reading will not.

It may help you understand the reason that people are so wiling to poopoo your claims against those two monsters.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges; those two animals come from different environments; have different prey and different hunting styles.

Neither will survive well in the other's environment

 

[Silver Prime]

Silver Prime

given that you have stated that you are in Hawaii for your complete existence; I would guess that you have been to a zoo and seen lions.

Have you seen in person a grizzly or Kodiak bear.

Doing so will provide you with a little reference that video and reading will not.

It may help you understand the reason that people are so wiling to poopoo your claims against those two monsters.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges; those two animals come from different environments; have different prey and different hunting styles.

Neither will survive well in the other's environment

Yes, and all that you and others have stated has been not poo'd on but shit on, since none of what anyone has brought is creditable, even your whole band of groupies ya got here's source...wiki, states its self that none of the weights has been verified an confirmed, it states as plain as day estimates. Not to mention the means of them accurately reciving and emiting the weights of bears was by measuring there skulls...Ha ha ha, lions have bigger skulls so does that mean lions are 3,000 pounds like wiki states some bears have so called achived?

Nope.

Apples and oranges, Hah? What are you talking about, the more formidable animal by territory of conflicts of inter-specific relations goes hands down to the lion, alaska has barely any formidable anything in terms animals in comparison to africa, alaska's formidable-ness, is only its weather.

Dont give me this Hawaii BS, you never interacted with a Kodiak or lion neither, yet that dident stop you from posting abserd (Opinions).

Un-like you, I dont care what others pure opinions and poor brain-storming thinks, I care what facts can be provided, its ridiculously easy to pick apart most of your arguments, because of the words you all always go by, like...Everyone knows...or its common knowledge, or even stupid people know these...facts...fucking hilarious, yet when the actual debate is on the way, whats provided? Less then medicore data.

I have to admit I havent provided nearly as much as the L vs T topic, but I have brought more defining answers to the questions thats always asked on this subject, not to mention I've seen the best debate this subject from the yuku team all the way to carnivora forums, and they are stuck with no greater opinions probably gives less rankings then even though they have the highest forms of credability, and what I brought is irefutable since none can match the final verdict, the actual fight...hence I dont care how much weasels like you whine, cry; lie...twist facts, use unreliable and already exposed and exploited data with proof, and pout and throw tantrums on things you couldent even have care'd to look up the basics on, but want to rely on kin-like idiotic ignorant people to keep your insecerity levels from plumeting.

Why does every dumbass on the web link half ass sources on the web and then say go do some actual studys? I guess its like counting the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop...the world will never know...lol...Yet it doesn't matter how much people oppose this debate, you could get a million, no; a billion people to vote for the Kodiak over the lion, just as I'm sure millions of people bet'd on George foreman to smash Muhamid ali, I even heard of people who morgaged there homes to place ludacris bets; yet after the fight...I'm guessing many people went back home to no house, because Foreman got droped like a bad habit even with all the support and fan made bullshit statistics.

I am posting just to have a little fun with facts and adressing people in how they proceed to adress others, If you an your possie cant handle what you dish out, then maybe you shouldent keep coming in this specific thread...because at this point you aint fooling no one with your kaka-mimi joke of a presenting you wish were facts.

I really dont care at this point when I will check back in, since I know no one will provide anything different and most importantly match what little is provided, because I know when I have the resources to look into he real facts (get another computer) I will have 10x more of each catagorie that proves the ever growing list of what it already seems to have taken a side on, which is the lion even at 1 on 1 terms against the kodiak, has more than a chance to pull off a win than vice versa.