Kobe stats vs entire teams

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iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
21,058
3
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: LordSnailz
I don't understand all this crap about kobe "not getting it" and how it's all about individual accolades ... the team was down by double digits, what do you want him to do, keep passing the the ball and be team player yet lose the game? Hell if my teammates are shooting like crap and I'm shooting at 60%, why wouldn't I shoot more and try to win the game?

It's also stupid to say it's kobe's fault that the lakers are not doing well, put any star player, lebron, shaq, duncan, AI, or KG, in his place and tell me if the team will better by many folds? Bottom line is the lakers won't do well unless the other players step up, not if kobe passes more.

Do you need a shovel to eat those words?

"It was still deemed a successful season as the Cavaliers finished with a 35-47 record. As dismal as that record sounds, it was a significant improvement from the team's previous 17-67 record in the season before Lebron's arrival. "

The Cavs missed the playoffs by a few games. They were in it until the last week or so.
Also, the Miami Heat were "maybe make the playoffs" to a resounding "hell yes" when Shaq got there. He was the missing piece to getting to the playoffs and the Heat missing the NBA championship by 1 game.

 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?

Shaq COULD have shot that much when he was YOUNGER. You're talking about a guy that's like half his age! That's not a legitimate debate. Shaq is a better teammate because he learned to involve the players around him.

Check the turn around MJ and the Wizards made. They almost made the playoffs. Then check their record before him. He taught Rip a lot (even Rip says that) and he made the team better.
 

iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
21,058
3
0
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?

Shaq COULD have shot that much when he was YOUNGER. You're talking about a guy that's like half his age! That's not a legitimate debate. Shaq is a better teammate because he learned to involve the players around him.
[/quote]

that's not the point. sp33ddemon was saying that the Heat "won't let" Shaq shoot 46 times. he's disregarding the fact that Shaq's old and out of shape.

Check the turn around MJ and the Wizards made. They almost made the playoffs. Then check their record before him. He taught Rip a lot (even Rip says that) and he made the team better.

no doubt. i agree. but how on earth do you measure Kobe's impace on a team and MJ's impact of a team? you can't. it's silly to infer that MJ would have made the Lakers even better than they are now with Kobe.
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?

Shaq COULD have shot that much when he was YOUNGER. You're talking about a guy that's like half his age! That's not a legitimate debate. Shaq is a better teammate because he learned to involve the players around him.

that's not the point. sp33ddemon was saying that the Heat "won't let" Shaq shoot 46 times. he's disregarding the fact that Shaq's old and out of shape.

Check the turn around MJ and the Wizards made. They almost made the playoffs. Then check their record before him. He taught Rip a lot (even Rip says that) and he made the team better.

no doubt. i agree. but how on earth do you measure Kobe's impace on a team and MJ's impact of a team? you can't. it's silly to infer that MJ would have made the Lakers even better than they are now with Kobe.[/quote]

I'm not infering that MJ would have made the lakers better. I'm saying look at their respective history with the same skill team.

Wizards missed the playoffs, but their team record and turn around was signifigant. Same thing Lebron did with the Cavs basically.

Michael in his third (he only played 7 games during his second season) year took a pathetic bulls team to the NBA Playoffs and lost against the Boston Celtics (one game he put up 63).

Take into the account that he didn't have Pippen or anyone like that. You do the math :D
 

iamme

Lifer
Jul 21, 2001
21,058
3
0
no one's doubting that MJ made the Wizards decent.

look at what Kobe's doing w/ a Lakers team with barely any talent. Kobe's making that team a playoff team. i'm addressing this quote by sp33ddemon:

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.
 

Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,995
0
0
Originally posted by: laurenlex
He is talented. He is a good scoring machine.

I still HATE him. Eagle County Colorado, please convict him!

wtf YOU should be convicted for saying this!

i admit i lost a bit of respect for him after the incident but cmon that girl was a gold-digging slut and kobe showed he regretted cheating on his wife but cmon it was not rape... as if a dude like kobe needs to rape anyone to get laid anyway
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
1) Shaq COULD take 46 shots a game, if all of his other teammates passed him the ball. Don't be absurd, they rest Shaq because they want to make sure he's in great shape for the playoffs and prevent freak injuries which happen at his weight. If they wanted to push him, THEY COULD.

2) + 3)Kobe is a good teammate, huh? What about his teammate's quote, Odom: " "It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball." Is that something a teammate, who respects Kobe, would say? Get the hell out of here, his teammates were clapping half heartedly, not jumping for joy, after the game. Put MJ out there and he would have been swarmed.

I can log in to espn.com and pull a quote off just today's news, b/c the media is eating this up like it's the next best thing since sliced bread:
Here we go, a fresh example - <<Even in the arrogance of a 9-for-33 night in San Antonio on Nov. 29, when Bryant belligerently said his "missed shots provided shot opportunities for his teammates off the offensive boards," ...>> Yeah, sure.

All the scoring records in the world cannot make up for beautiful team basketball and a ring. The reason why Kobe will never have a good team is because no well established superstar wants to play with him, hence he will be delegated to his 40+ shots a game.


 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
Originally posted by: 733SHiFTY
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Originally posted by: 733SHiFTY
Obviously there were no underage white girls on the sidelines at that game...

nnice :roll:

puhleese, you know you chuckled a little :D
That was about as funny as cheating on your wife with underage white girls... wait, what?

 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
1) Shaq COULD take 46 shots a game, if all of his other teammates passed him the ball. Don't be absurd, they rest Shaq because they want to make sure he's in great shape for the playoffs and prevent freak injuries which happen at his weight. If they wanted to push him, THEY COULD.

2) + 3)Kobe is a good teammate, huh? What about his teammate's quote, Odom: " "It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball." Is that something a teammate, who respects Kobe, would say? Get the hell out of here, his teammates were clapping half heartedly, not jumping for joy, after the game. Put MJ out there and he would have been swarmed.

I can log in to espn.com and pull a quote off just today's news, b/c the media is eating this up like it's the next best thing since sliced bread:
Here we go, a fresh example - <<Even in the arrogance of a 9-for-33 night in San Antonio on Nov. 29, when Bryant belligerently said his "missed shots provided shot opportunities for his teammates off the offensive boards," ...>> Yeah, sure.

All the scoring records in the world cannot make up for beautiful team basketball and a ring. The reason why Kobe will never have a good team is because no well established superstar wants to play with him, hence he will be delegated to his 40+ shots a game.

freak injuries due to weight? you really have to take "freak" out of there. He's gotten heavier and heavier and more injury prone every year. If he got back down to his college weight you won't be seeing those "freak" injuries.

That Odom quote was a quote where he was saying that Kobe kicks ass. Good job misinterpreting the quote.

I guess if kobe had shot exactly 27 3 pointers and made every one to get 81 points you'd be disapointed that he took 27 shots. That's too many for a team player. He did what he felt he had to do for the team to win. And that's score points. You don't turn an 18 point deficit into a solid win by passing the rock when you're one of the most dominant offensive players in the game. Kobe IS a team player. Just because you played pure point guard, your favorite players are John Stockton and Mark Price, and love watching the Harlem Globetrotters dribble and pass, doesn't mean that it's the only way to contribute to the team.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
1) Shaq COULD take 46 shots a game, if all of his other teammates passed him the ball. Don't be absurd, they rest Shaq because they want to make sure he's in great shape for the playoffs and prevent freak injuries which happen at his weight. If they wanted to push him, THEY COULD.

2) + 3)Kobe is a good teammate, huh? What about his teammate's quote, Odom: " "It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball." Is that something a teammate, who respects Kobe, would say? Get the hell out of here, his teammates were clapping half heartedly, not jumping for joy, after the game. Put MJ out there and he would have been swarmed.

I can log in to espn.com and pull a quote off just today's news, b/c the media is eating this up like it's the next best thing since sliced bread:
Here we go, a fresh example - <<Even in the arrogance of a 9-for-33 night in San Antonio on Nov. 29, when Bryant belligerently said his "missed shots provided shot opportunities for his teammates off the offensive boards," ...>> Yeah, sure.

All the scoring records in the world cannot make up for beautiful team basketball and a ring. The reason why Kobe will never have a good team is because no well established superstar wants to play with him, hence he will be delegated to his 40+ shots a game.

i love how this guy knows SOOOO much about how NBA players think. ya, NO ONE in the league wants to play with Kobe.

Kobe is not a leader because his team doesn't follow him.

yadda yadda yadda..


and yet when i look at Kobe's numbers i see 4.3 assists per game. him, only 10 OTHER SG in the league have a better assists average and OF those 10 FIVE could be considered PG (C. Paul, D Wade, K Hinrich, M Jaric, D Williams).

so we can CLEARLY see that in terms of ACTUAL assists per game Kobe isn't doing too badly.

ONLY ONE laker is averaging more assists per game than Kobe, that's Odom.

hmmm.

:roll:

too bad the NBA doesn't track passes / game. i'd bet Kobe makes his fair share of passes.

 

sisq0kidd

Lifer
Apr 27, 2004
17,043
1
81
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
1) Shaq COULD take 46 shots a game, if all of his other teammates passed him the ball. Don't be absurd, they rest Shaq because they want to make sure he's in great shape for the playoffs and prevent freak injuries which happen at his weight. If they wanted to push him, THEY COULD.

2) + 3)Kobe is a good teammate, huh? What about his teammate's quote, Odom: " "It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball." Is that something a teammate, who respects Kobe, would say? Get the hell out of here, his teammates were clapping half heartedly, not jumping for joy, after the game. Put MJ out there and he would have been swarmed.

I can log in to espn.com and pull a quote off just today's news, b/c the media is eating this up like it's the next best thing since sliced bread:
Here we go, a fresh example - <<Even in the arrogance of a 9-for-33 night in San Antonio on Nov. 29, when Bryant belligerently said his "missed shots provided shot opportunities for his teammates off the offensive boards," ...>> Yeah, sure.

All the scoring records in the world cannot make up for beautiful team basketball and a ring. The reason why Kobe will never have a good team is because no well established superstar wants to play with him, hence he will be delegated to his 40+ shots a game.

i love how this guy knows SOOOO much about how NBA players think. ya, NO ONE in the league wants to play with Kobe.

Kobe is not a leader because his team doesn't follow him.

yadda yadda yadda..


and yet when i look at Kobe's numbers i see 4.3 assists per game. him, only 10 OTHER SG in the league have a better assists average and OF those 10 FIVE could be considered PG (C. Paul, D Wade, K Hinrich, M Jaric, D Williams).

so we can CLEARLY see that in terms of ACTUAL assists per game Kobe isn't doing too badly.

ONLY ONE laker is averaging more assists per game than Kobe, that's Odom.

hmmm.

:roll:

too bad the NBA doesn't track passes / game. i'd bet Kobe makes his fair share of passes.

Don't worry about him. He seems to have a HUGE chip on his shoulder. Either that, or he was part of the prosecution team in Colorado.
 

LordSnailz

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
4,821
0
0
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Originally posted by: LordSnailz
I don't understand all this crap about kobe "not getting it" and how it's all about individual accolades ... the team was down by double digits, what do you want him to do, keep passing the the ball and be team player yet lose the game? Hell if my teammates are shooting like crap and I'm shooting at 60%, why wouldn't I shoot more and try to win the game?

It's also stupid to say it's kobe's fault that the lakers are not doing well, put any star player, lebron, shaq, duncan, AI, or KG, in his place and tell me if the team will better by many folds? Bottom line is the lakers won't do well unless the other players step up, not if kobe passes more.

Do you need a shovel to eat those words?

"It was still deemed a successful season as the Cavaliers finished with a 35-47 record. As dismal as that record sounds, it was a significant improvement from the team's previous 17-67 record in the season before Lebron's arrival. "

The Cavs missed the playoffs by a few games. They were in it until the last week or so.

re-read what I said, place anyone else in kobe's place and they won't do much better. Yes, when lebron joined the cavs, he helped turn the team around, but I'm talking about 1 player turning the current lakers around. Everyone is blaming the lakers poor record on kobe yet ignoring how poorly the others have been playing.

 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
143
106
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I can appreciate great shooting and scoring, however, I appreciate team basketball more. I just wrote that individual scoring titles/accolades are nice, read the above.

This is in direct reference to your Kobe/Shaq comparisons.

Shaq hasn't taken 46 shots in a game, nor would Miami ever let him. Shaq is more of a team player than Kobe, this is fact my friend, look at their past quotes.

And no kidding even MJ couldn't win a championship with that team, but they would have a better record with MJ vs Kobe. Why? Simply because he demands that you get better as his teammate, Kobe could give two shts less about what they do or how they play.

1. Shaq COULDN'T shoot 46 times a game because he's out of gas by the 4th quarter. have you seen him play lately? hell, even in '04 when the Pistons and Lakers were in the Finals, Shaq was nowhere near as effective in the 4th quarter as he was in the 1st. OTOH, Kobe's a fantastic 4th quarter performer.

2. Saying Shaq is a better teammate because of his "quotes" is ridiculous.

3. Saying MJ would get more out of his teammates because he "demands they get better" is a rather silly hyperbole. how on earth can you prove something like that? Kobe is in the face of his teammates, as well, when they blow rotations or assignments. don't tell me Kobe doesn't want to win as much as MJ does. btw, isn't Shaq the one who addressed an injury DURING the season because, "it occurred on company time, so he should deal with it on company time"? rather than deal with it in the off season?
1) Shaq COULD take 46 shots a game, if all of his other teammates passed him the ball. Don't be absurd, they rest Shaq because they want to make sure he's in great shape for the playoffs and prevent freak injuries which happen at his weight. If they wanted to push him, THEY COULD.

2) + 3)Kobe is a good teammate, huh? What about his teammate's quote, Odom: " "It's like God put Kobe here for us to watch him play basketball." Is that something a teammate, who respects Kobe, would say? Get the hell out of here, his teammates were clapping half heartedly, not jumping for joy, after the game. Put MJ out there and he would have been swarmed.

I can log in to espn.com and pull a quote off just today's news, b/c the media is eating this up like it's the next best thing since sliced bread:
Here we go, a fresh example - <<Even in the arrogance of a 9-for-33 night in San Antonio on Nov. 29, when Bryant belligerently said his "missed shots provided shot opportunities for his teammates off the offensive boards," ...>> Yeah, sure.

All the scoring records in the world cannot make up for beautiful team basketball and a ring. The reason why Kobe will never have a good team is because no well established superstar wants to play with him, hence he will be delegated to his 40+ shots a game.

i love how this guy knows SOOOO much about how NBA players think. ya, NO ONE in the league wants to play with Kobe.

Kobe is not a leader because his team doesn't follow him.

yadda yadda yadda..


and yet when i look at Kobe's numbers i see 4.3 assists per game. him, only 10 OTHER SG in the league have a better assists average and OF those 10 FIVE could be considered PG (C. Paul, D Wade, K Hinrich, M Jaric, D Williams).

so we can CLEARLY see that in terms of ACTUAL assists per game Kobe isn't doing too badly.

ONLY ONE laker is averaging more assists per game than Kobe, that's Odom.

hmmm.

:roll:

too bad the NBA doesn't track passes / game. i'd bet Kobe makes his fair share of passes.
How can any other LA Laker possibly have more assists than Kobe when they never get the rock 5 times a game? Do you even hear what you're saying? Compare Kobe to AI, who has developed from superchucker to super decision maker. AI > Kobe when it comes to getting the team to help him win. Both teams blow, but AI has really stepped his game up in the past couple of years.

If LA could get another superstar to complement Kobe, they WOULD. Buss realizes he can still make a profit by just having Kobe chuck up 40+ shots a game, because Kobe has the talent to score a lot. Even if they may lose (the game where he scored 40+ vs the HEAT and lost is a good example), LA will still put sheep into the seats who are on Kobe's nuts (just like many people in this thread).

Bottom line: LA will never win a championship with Kobe, but he will win some scoring titles by chucking 40-50 shots a game. Hell, eventually he would have to break Wilt's record if they let him shoot over 50-60% of the team's shots. No other player in the league has that kind of opportunity: lone superstar + talent to bust out + coach letting you take that many shots.