[Kitguru] Samsung asks ITC to ban sales of Nvidia products in the U.S.

[Gloomy]

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...f-nvidia-geforce-chips-tegra-socs-in-the-u-s/

Samsung asked the U.S. ITC to conduct an investigation under section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930, regarding certain GPUs and SoCs as well as products on their base. If the ITC finds that devices based on Nvidia’s chips violate Samsung’s patents, it may stop their sales in the U.S. Investigations of such kind usually take years and the vast majority of products in question never get banned. A copy of the complaint was not available at press time; it is unclear which Nvidia chips Samsung wants to be blocked from the U.S. market.

 

[hungtran]

This and Freesync, makes me feel like Samsung is looking to buy AMD.

 

[hawtdawg]

Im down for that.

 

[geoxile]

This and Freesync, makes me feel like Samsung is looking to buy AMD.

Probably a pointless move for Samsung unless they were looking to strip for parts (IPs). But AMD with a monstrous economy behind it would be interesting

 

[Silverforce11]

NVidia sucks; they never invented anything independently in the past 21 years they've been around. Their over-marketing covers up their shitty products. Make good products then you don't have to overmarket or worry about competitors. It's like with big pharma and intel.

The world would be better off if NVidia just went out of business tonight. There is so much that can be done in software on processors we have now that we could never miss anything NVidia tried to hold up.

Seriously dude, stop trolling its getting old.

All the major companies in this field have contributed greatly towards advancement of graphics.

 

[Silverforce11]

Probably a pointless move for Samsung unless they were looking to strip for parts (IPs). But AMD with a monstrous economy behind it would be interesting

Samsung buying AMD = x86/x64 patents as well as a beastly GPU (Exynos graphics is not competitive with Qualcomm and Apple.) division for potential growth under Samsung's A) guidance and B) manufacturing. No more playing the TSMC game.

It would be the best thing to happen to AMD TBH.

 

[Teizo]

This and Freesync, makes me feel like Samsung is looking to buy AMD.

Wonder if they would change the name. AMD has brand recognition, but in all seriousness it has a budget brand name recognition (fair or not).

I would personally like to see this.

 

[AnandThenMan]

No one cares about the thread title/subject lol. I honestly don't get this spat between NV and Samsung seems pointless. I could be wrong but it seems to be ego driven more than anything else.

 

[Silverforce11]

Well recall awhile back NV started the fight with their own claims of IP infringement against Samsung, I said back then it was stupid to pick a fight against a giant, NV will just get splattered. Samsung has much more experience due to dealings with Apple.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Nvidia did manage to "win" against Intel, but I don't think they should push their luck especially against the likes of Samsung.

 

[tential]

NVidia sucks; they never invented anything independently in the past 21 years they've been around. Their over-marketing covers up their shitty products. Make good products then you don't have to overmarket or worry about competitors. It's like with big pharma and intel.

The world would be better off if NVidia just went out of business tonight. There is so much that can be done in software on processors we have now that we could never miss anything NVidia tried to hold up.

Where can we sign a petition to make posts like this bannable?
Whether it's against Nvidia or AMD, it has no business here.

Well recall awhile back NV started the fight with their own claims of IP infringement against Samsung, I said back then it was stupid to pick a fight against a giant, NV will just get splattered. Samsung has much more experience due to dealings with Apple.

Seems like a great way to keep lawyers employed though right? Their legal teams have to do something with their time!

 

[TrulyUncouth]

I thought the patents for x86 go away if AMD is ever purchased. If not, I would love nothing more than for Samsung to pick em up and for us to watch them and intel duke it out at all levels.

However, I would honestly prefer a buyout by Qualcomm. Would be funny to see ATI get reunited with their old mobile division.

 

[positivedoppler]

I thought the patents for x86 go away if AMD is ever purchased. If not, I would love nothing more than for Samsung to pick em up and for us to watch them and intel duke it out at all levels.

However, I would honestly prefer a buyout by Qualcomm. Would be funny to see ATI get reunited with their old mobile division.

This was asked a few weeks ago in cpu.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2407577&page=2
Best response was by Lonyo
"There is no x86 agreement. x86 patents are dead and gone. Anyone can make an x86 chip.

It's a cross licensing agreement for relevant extensions and x86-64 patents.

http://opencores.org/project,zet86

Sure, it's part semantics, but every year we advance in time, is another year of patents which cease to be, and more things drop out of the Intel-AMD agreement and older x86 extensions can be used by anyone who wants to."

 

[AnandThenMan]

I thought the patents for x86 go away if AMD is ever purchased.

I don't think AMD loses the rights to AMD64 but would definitely lose the rights to make x86 processors. Either way things would turn into a legal mess. That's why no one has purchased AMD including Samsung.

 

[ViRGE]

No one cares about the thread title/subject lol. I honestly don't get this spat between NV and Samsung seems pointless. I could be wrong but it seems to be ego driven more than anything else.

If NVIDIA were to win, the mobile graphics royalties would be in the billions. Given the strength of their patent portfolio (i.e. they're not just full of hot air) and the potential payoff, that's good reason to sue.

As for Samsung going to the ITC, it's unsurprising. All of Samsung's actions have been tit-for-tat; NVIDIA went to the ITC, so Samsung is going to the ITC. Though the expired patent they used was a bit silly.

 

[geoxile]

Samsung buying AMD = x86/x64 patents as well as a beastly GPU (Exynos graphics is not competitive with Qualcomm and Apple.) division for potential growth under Samsung's A) guidance and B) manufacturing. No more playing the TSMC game.

It would be the best thing to happen to AMD TBH.

x86 is something Samsung really doesn't have much business with. Especially given AMD's tiny market share in most of the relevant markets.

Also, so far it doesn't seem like GCN is even capable of scaling down to Samsung's needs. Even Mullins, which is supposedly rated at 4.5W IIRC consumes a lot of power compared to an ARM SoC going into a phone.

But speaking of Samsung's hardware ventures, it seems like it's not a big focus at all. Exynos is primarily aimed at their native market, with some showing up in their rather unremarkable tablets. It just doesn't seem like Samsung is interested in that at all.

I don't think AMD loses the rights to AMD64 but would definitely lose the rights to make x86 processors. Either way things would turn into a legal mess. That's why no one has purchased AMD including Samsung.

IIRC in case of AMD being bought out Intel has to re-negotiate for fair licensure. Someone posted it here before.

 

[Anarchist420]

Where can we sign a petition to make posts like this bannable? Whether it's against Nvidia or AMD, it has no business here.

I'm sorry.

But please remember that at least AMD doesn't have super strong management dictating a lot unlike nvidia. Without super strong management, the engineers can actually experiment and produce.

Seriously dude, stop trolling its getting old. All the major companies in this field have contributed greatly towards advancement of graphics.

Well I am sorry but I don't think nvidia even invented Variable Refresh. Even if they did, they didn't do as good of a job as FreeSync/A-Sync.

 

[3DVagabond]

No one cares about the thread title/subject lol. I honestly don't get this spat between NV and Samsung seems pointless. I could be wrong but it seems to be ego driven more than anything else.

nVidia sees patent trolling as an additional income route. Samsung is not going to pay nVidia to make them go away, which is what the purpose of patent trolling is. They are likely posturing simply to get the ITC and US courts to dismiss both claims as frivolous and a waste of court resources. I'll be interested to see how this works out. I really really doubt the US is going to ban the sale of nVidia GPU's considering nVidia is a US company.

 

[Bateluer]

Isn't AMD's x86 license non-transferable?

 

[MisterLilBig]

Whoever loses this case will suffer that's for sure.


Sidenote: Does AMD's x86 license matter much? They do have x64. A 64-bit only world would be an upgrade. And some companies have done it and are doing it, making it a requirement to have apps in 64-bit mode.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Whoever loses this case will suffer that's for sure.


Sidenote: Does AMD's x86 license matter much? They do have x64. A 64-bit only world would be an upgrade. And some companies have done it and are doing it, making it a requirement to have apps in 64-bit mode.

You cant make x64 without x86. And its non transferable.

It makes no sense to buy AMD for anyone in terms of x86/x64. Also who would be dumb enough to start competition with Intel in that segment. The only thing someone would buy AMD for is the GPU and interconnect IP.

And all x86/x64, console sales etc would be gone from day 1.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.sammobile.com/2014/09/05...t-looks-to-block-u-s-galaxy-device-shipments/

nVidia sued first, then Samsung countersued. Will be interesting.

 

[Silverforce11]

Also, so far it doesn't seem like GCN is even capable of scaling down to Samsung's needs.

That's because AMD haven't tried due to their weak CPU performance. They would get hammered in the SOC market when even Intel is barely competitive.

But Samsung with AMD GPU hardware & IP? That could be extremely powerful.

Don't forget, mobile GPUs are driven by PowerVR and Qualcomm graphics, both of which have their origins in the discrete PC market and they could not compete with ATI / NV back then.

Really, AMD is chump change for Samsung.

 

[Daedalus685]

That's because AMD haven't tried due to their weak CPU performance. They would get hammered in the SOC market when even Intel is barely competitive.

But Samsung with AMD GPU hardware & IP? That could be extremely powerful.

...snip...

Qualcomm's SOC graphics (Adreno) were sold to it by AMD as the ATI Imageon IP, in what is up there for most ironic sales ever (sold for $65 million to allow AMD to focus on more profitable businesses). In the old days I had thought that Imageon actually used ATI's general graphics IP just directed at handheld SOC only market (circa 2002-2009) and that the sale would thus include a lot of the IP for desktop Radeons around that time (2009) again for use in handheld only.

Would a Samsung controlled AMD (or amd at all) be allowed to compete with Adreno without some lawsuits or licence agreements in place?

I have no idea what IP Imageon actually included when it was sold.

Edit: the IP questions aside I guess my other point is that qualcomm graphics does in fact share its roots in PC, but its not that it couldn't compete with ATI, it WAS ATI.

 

[Headfoot]

x86 has literally nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It's purely graphics patents