[Kitguru] Nvidia continue to come under fire for poor GTX590 design

[wahdangun]

Is it possible to extreme over-clock these skus with protective mechanisms?

with AMD HD 6990 yes you can(but you need extrem cooling or water), but NVDIA GTX 590 won't cut it

speaking of it, where is extreme overclocking GTX 590 ?? and its seems they maybe have give up on it lol,

 

[SirPauly]

Sadly, that seems to be the case! It would of been nice to see how the water-cooled GTX 590's would of been able to do.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Whatever performance level they were able to reach, nVidia would have to use more power to match it.

This sums up everything perfectly. Nvidia is currently getting less performance/watt vs. AMD, which works out just fine for a single GPU card. The GTX580 is one heck of a fast card, the extra power is not that big a concern. But pair them together, and you get into a power realm that is pushing the limits of practicality, especially when you are trying to best the 6990. An under engineered power section is not helping either.

 

[SirPauly]

IT seems that a lower clocked full core competes very well.

 

[badb0y]

IT seems that an underclocked full core competes very well with AMD's finest to me.

Do you really think that they had a choice? Do you? It sure doesn't look like they had any other way to go...

 

[SirPauly]

You're talking like this is a bad thing -- how is 50 percent more performance in a single card over the GTX 580 with their features set and positives a bad thing?

What is this?

If nVidia can't offer a 25-30 percent over-clock with this product sku and the product is blanketed as a failure, epic fail, turd and dud? How objective is that?

 

[badb0y]

You're talking like this is a bad thing -- how is 50 percent more performance in a single card over the GTX 580 with their features set and positives a bad thing?

What is this?

If nVidia can't offer a 25-30 percent over-clock with this product sku and the product is blanketed as a failure, epic fail, turd and dud? How objective is that?

No it's not a failure on it's own but compare it to the competition and it seems like it fell short.

 

[Grooveriding]

with AMD HD 6990 yes you can(but you need extrem cooling or water)

Fastest card on the planet ?

Watercooled 6990 @ 1000/1350 1.25v no flames attached

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037093580&postcount=14

 

[Lonbjerg]

Fastest card on the planet ?

Watercooled 6990 @ 1000/1350 1.25v no flames attached

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037093580&postcount=14

Holds no candle to this:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1588587

 

[Madcatatlas]

First of all, S I N G L E card ljonberg, learn to read.

second, the power that goes into that quad setup alone is insane.

Crossfire scales better than SLI

Cost of QUAD 580s = 2000$
Cost of Single 6990 = 700$

for 1300$ you can buy alot of hardware.

 

[ArchAngel777]

First of all, S I N G L E card ljonberg, learn to read.

second, the power that goes into that quad setup alone is insane.

Crossfire scales better than SLI

Cost of QUAD 580s = 2000$
Cost of Single 6990 = 700$

for 1300$ you can buy alot of hardware.

Slightly off-topic, but why does the that guy have three monitors in portrait mode? The end results is aprox 16:10 aspect ratio. Seems like a waste of a triple monitor setup. Yeah, it is super high resolution, but now he needs to run a A/C unit or a Heatduct to move that 1200 watt space heater.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Holds no candle to this:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1588587

That's an awesome setup... but not really comprable to what we are talking about here, single 6990's and GTX590's.

I know you don't care about power use, but I would be pretty curious to see what that monster setup pulls. The phase change cooler, four GTX590's (which are not exactly 'green'), overclocked CPU, and all the supporting accessories.

But relating to this topic, I doubt very much he could use two GTX590's, he had to go with four GTX580's. The GTX590's would not likely stand up to the clocks and voltage that setup would use. 6990's would.

 

[Lonbjerg]

That's an awesome setup... but not really comprable to what we are talking about here, single 6990's and GTX590's.

I know you don't care about power use, but I would be pretty curious to see what that monster setup pulls. The phase change cooler, four GTX590's (which are not exactly 'green'), overclocked CPU, and all the supporting accessories.

But relating to this topic, I doubt very much he could use two GTX590's, he had to go with four GTX580's. The GTX590's would not likely stand up to the clocks and voltage that setup would use. 6990's would.

That is my point...these "halo" cards flat flat on their nooses performance wise compared to other multi GPU setups...but still people think they matter.

 

[Arkadrel]

That is my point...these "halo" cards flat flat on their nooses performance wise compared to other multi GPU setups...but still people think they matter.

The 6990 can oc to ~1,000 on its core (up from 830)
(there is a unlock button, that takes them to 880 stock 6970's).

How do they fall flat? the 6990 can easily do stock 6970's clocks... all of them... by the simple push of a button.

You mean the 590 falls flat? it strugles to match the 580 counterparts clocks?

 

[Silverforce11]

Except CF 6990 can run and even exceed QF 6970s while using a lot less power.

 

[SirPauly]

Fastest card on the planet ?

Watercooled 6990 @ 1000/1350 1.25v no flames attached

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037093580&postcount=14

The poster used FurMark as an example; doesn't FurMark throttle down?

 

[SirPauly]

What I feel is a really nice "win" for the 6990 is the ability to add a 6970 for Tri-CrossFire. You're not forced to buy another 6990 for CrossFire.

 

[MoMeanMugs]

What I feel is a really nice "win" for the 6990 is the ability to add a 6970 for Tri-CrossFire. You're not forced to buy another 6990 for CrossFire.

Does nVidia not do this because of their architecture, or is it another lockout they implement? I can't recall if anyone's ever stated this (I've never read it).

 

[Grooveriding]

The poster used FurMark as an example; doesn't FurMark throttle down?

In order to run those clocks and voltages powertune would be opened up preventing throttling. Which is the defining difference between the 6990 and 590, you're given the choice to disable the power governing factors.

http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index...age=9&slug=amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4209/amds-radeon-hd-6990-the-new-single-card-king/18

That and the fact the card can handle having the power opened up on it and extreme overclocking and performance levels due to its robust design.

This is the best example of why the 590 is getting raked over the coals and there are questions about why it was designed the way it was and why it fails the way it does.

People expect these $700 cards to be able to be put on the edge of performance and sure they may not handle it, but they'll smply crash or BSOD your system, not catch fire like the 590 does.

That overclocked 6990 on water is what you expect to see from a halo card.

 

[SlowSpyder]

That is my point...these "halo" cards flat flat on their nooses performance wise compared to other multi GPU setups...but still people think they matter.

Yea, I would not buy one of these over a multi-GPU setup, but AMD and Nvidia continue to build them, so they must sell. The GTX590 does slot nicely, in price and performance, between a single GTX580 and SLI'd GTX580's, as does the 6990.

The arguements for these cards I have heard in the past have to deal with having only one PCIE slot, not enough room in the case for two cards, and a power supply that does not have enough 6/8 pin connectors. But, I just don't see too many people who are looking at $700 video cards not having the power supply or motherboard that would support multiple video cards. I guess I can see the case issue, a lot of people use mid towers. But I think for the vast majority of those who would buy $700+ worth of video cards would be better served by buying two seperate cards instead of a single multi-GPU card.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Yea, I would not buy one of these over a multi-GPU setup, but AMD and Nvidia continue to build them, so they must sell. The GTX590 does slot nicely, in price and performance, between a single GTX580 and SLI'd GTX580's, as does the 6990.

The arguements for these cards I have heard in the past have to deal with having only one PCIE slot, not enough room in the case for two cards, and a power supply that does not have enough 6/8 pin connectors. But, I just don't see too many people who are looking at $700 video cards not having the power supply or motherboard that would support multiple video cards. I guess I can see the case issue, a lot of people use mid towers. But I think for the vast majority of those who would buy $700+ worth of video cards would be better served by buying two seperate cards instead of a single multi-GPU card.

It's about the "halo" not market share with these cards.

 

[apoppin]

Does nVidia not do this because of their architecture, or is it another lockout they implement? I can't recall if anyone's ever stated this (I've never read it).

It was in my review. i actually tried it using a SLI interconnect bridge but it ignored it and i ended up using the GTX 590 as the primary card with the GTX 580 as dedicated PhysX (pretty nice really).

According to senior Nvidia PR, GTX 580 Tri-SLI is available only with 3 x GTX 580 and it is UNsupported by drivers for GTX 590+GTX 580. It could easily be supported by the GeForce driver team if they choose to do so.

One of the Nvidia Seniors guys took my suggestion to enable it and it is also in my conclusion in my GTX 590 evaluation; for Nvidia to make available a cheaper alternative to 3 separate GTX 580s - it should work in with their pricing since GTX 590 + GTX 580 would be slower performance-wise also. It would work well for motherboards that place the video cards directly next to each other - without a space in between the primary PCIe slots.
()

 

[MoMeanMugs]

Did they give you a reason that it wasn't supported out of the box? Are you saying that future drivers will support it?

 

[apoppin]

Did they give you a reason that it wasn't supported out of the box? Are you saying that future drivers will support it?

Not really and no.

The only thing resembling a reason was that there already was GTX 580 Tri-SLI. I just gave them multiple compelling reasons it was to their benefit and to the benefit of the enthusiasts for them to make it happen.

You don't think they really take my advice, do you?
:biggrin:

We'll see if *they* think it is a good idea - or not.

 

[Seero]

Respin and respin and respin and respin. Ain't you guys tired? Try not to mangle several issues together and may be you won't get stuck in this respin.
a) Performance <> Stability.
b) Stability <> Price.
c) Price <> Performance.

First, 590 is stable on stock. Due to idiots who can't OC, but OC, now we all can't OC with ease on 590. Those 590s are selling without an issue. Check NCIX's review on 590.

Second, 590 is not slower than 6990. If you remove all graphs that 590 beats 6990, then of course you will see 6990 > 590. It is like all students are A students as long as they got 1 A and all non-A marks are not counted. Their performances are at the same level.

Third, 590 doesn't worth the money. 580 parts at 560 SLI performance level, enough said. That isn't the kill, but the fact that you can't OC this beast is the downer. With 580 chips, it really isn't ask for much to put some more VRMs into the card so those who will spend another 1k on cooling and 1k of PSU setup can unleash its power.

Yes, it seems 6990 is safe to OC, but it is not. AMD stated that they ain't responsible if user flip the switch. XFX stated that they will cover BIOS2 at stock, which is 880Mhz. Why some people believe they can OC/OV without voiding their warranties are beyond me. Come on, it is really common sense.