[Kitguru] Nvidia continue to come under fire for poor GTX590 design

[Idontcare]

I don't get it. Asus has a new bios for the GTX590. The GTX590 is an nvidia card. Therefore, there is a new nvidia bios for the GTX590. Does nvidia ever offer new BIOS directly from their website? I thought it has always been standard practice for the board manufacturers to offer the BIOS updates.

I mean, I get the complaint- "oh no, kitguru said nvidia was doing it but it was really an nvidia card manufacturer, so they lied!" But ultimately what does that change? The original BIOS clearly had a problem, and a new one was made to fix or improve it. Whether it was actually offered from nvidia or Asus changes nothing.

Is it called a "new Intel BIOS" when ASUS releases a new BIOS for my P5E WS Pro that uses an Intel CPU?

The original kitguru article had a headline that was intentionally crafted to do everything it could to imply that Nvidia was the one doing damage control with a new BIOS...it leaves a rather different impression with readers when the reality of the situation is laid bare.

Which begs the question - why did they not simply tell the truth, they even admitted afterwards they had a tentative guess and assumption that is was Nvidia even before they went to print.

Kitguru is well along in the process of making a name for itself just as SemiAccurate took a year before fully cementing their credibility.

Credibility is relevant, even in scientific circles the publication source speaks volumes to the credibility of the claims made by the source.

 

[notty22]

Maybe nvidia did a secret recall? Will probably never know.

For the most part, if their partners like Asus are releasing bios changes for the 590, its basically the same as nvidia doing it themselves. You can be sure nvidia was directly consulted/involved/questioned/blah/blah for the bios fix for the 590. So a brand like Asus releasing a new bios for the 590 has nvidia's fingerprints on it as well. Just my opinion though...

I disagree about the bios update, even right now, some 6850's-xfx had fan troubles that needed a bios update. Other companies 6850's did not.
Going back to the 5970, early xxx black editions shipped with a bios that caused the fan to NOT increase in speed under some conditions. At one point newegg was still shipping xfx 5970's that needed this important bios update, there was a mini-controversy around that. I'm sure there are some Nvidia only vendors that have unique bios issues also. Gigabyte offers bios updates on many of their video cards to fix various issues.

 

[SirPauly]

IMC is part of the gpu

imho,

It was misleading and disingenuous to offer the illusion that there were four phases for the GPU, imho! There are 5 phases for the GPU.

 

[Chiropteran]

Which begs the question - why did they not simply tell the truth, they even admitted afterwards they had a tentative guess and assumption that is was Nvidia even before they went to print.

How can anyone claim to know the truth? It seems very possible to me that Asus built the BIOS with assistance from nvidia and the original article could have been 100% correct. Nvidia simply decided to do some damage control by changing the plan and releasing the BIOS to 3rd parties instead of directly. What unbiased source has disputed the original article? Nvidia is not unbiased when it comes to negative news about itself.
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Edit: Just to be clear, I am offering a possibility. I don't claim to know the truth either. But as I see it, either you take kitguru's word as true and accurate and nvidia is lying, or you take nvidia's word as true and accurate and kitguru is lying. Without an unbiased 3rd party offering additional information, it's just a he said vs she said story. Now asus cards actually do have a bios update, well now there is some evidence from a 3rd party (Asus) that kitguru was telling the truth and it was nvidia that was lying. Or at least being deceptive, claiming there was no bios update when they really had no idea whether or not their 3rd parties were going to release fixes.

 

[formulav8]

I disagree about the bios update.

Fair enough

 

[n0x1ous]

has the EVGA model received a bios update? if not then doesnt it point more specifically to something with just the asus model? something to do with their voltage tweaker maybe?

 

[bryanW1995]

How can anyone claim to know the truth? It seems very possible to me that Asus built the BIOS with assistance from nvidia and the original article could have been 100% correct. Nvidia simply decided to do some damage control by changing the plan and releasing the BIOS to 3rd parties instead of directly. What unbiased source has disputed the original article? Nvidia is not unbiased when it comes to negative news about itself.
\
Edit: Just to be clear, I am offering a possibility. I don't claim to know the truth either. But as I see it, either you take kitguru's word as true and accurate and nvidia is lying, or you take nvidia's word as true and accurate and kitguru is lying. Without an unbiased 3rd party offering additional information, it's just a he said vs she said story. Now asus cards actually do have a bios update, well now there is some evidence from a 3rd party (Asus) that kitguru was telling the truth and it was nvidia that was lying. Or at least being deceptive, claiming there was no bios update when they really had no idea whether or not their 3rd parties were going to release fixes.

kitguru actually put a disclaimer on the story after a few days because they were misinformed.

 

[Idontcare]

How can anyone claim to know the truth? It seems very possible to me that Asus built the BIOS with assistance from nvidia and the original article could have been 100% correct. Nvidia simply decided to do some damage control by changing the plan and releasing the BIOS to 3rd parties instead of directly. What unbiased source has disputed the original article? Nvidia is not unbiased when it comes to negative news about itself.
\
Edit: Just to be clear, I am offering a possibility. I don't claim to know the truth either. But as I see it, either you take kitguru's word as true and accurate and nvidia is lying, or you take nvidia's word as true and accurate and kitguru is lying. Without an unbiased 3rd party offering additional information, it's just a he said vs she said story. Now asus cards actually do have a bios update, well now there is some evidence from a 3rd party (Asus) that kitguru was telling the truth and it was nvidia that was lying. Or at least being deceptive, claiming there was no bios update when they really had no idea whether or not their 3rd parties were going to release fixes.

The fact that kitgure refuses to just come out and state specifics as to who/what/when/where makes me suspicious.

Even when they backpedaled on their own story regarding "Nvidia is doing damage control" story they would not name a single other AIB outside of ASUS as being an AIB that was implementing their own BIOS.

My BS detector is tuned, batteries are fresh, I've been in this business and I know BS when I see it being spread around. Kitguru is deflecting, they made a pile of assumptions and strung along a bunch of innuendo and got called on it.

Rather than own up to it they try and wiggle away with the "well we heard rumblings from other AIB's too..." BS. If there was any truth to it they'd put names in print.

At any rate I could not care less about kitguru's reputation, that is something everyone has to decide for themselves. Some folks to this day think Charlie and S/A is gospel truth, and I know it won't matter the track-record of Kitguru because there will be that group of people out there that will defend them to the end.

I'm not interested in being in that battle on either side, but the specific article of reference of late was rather telling in its headline versus reality.

Now we got another kitguru article-based thread. Is it real? Is it sensationalism BS again? Only time will tell, but I have the right to be skeptical and to reserve judgement for a while until I see some corroborating evidence backing up kitguru's credibility. I'd be foolish, from my perspective, to not be skeptical at this point.

 

[n0x1ous]

The fact that kitgure refuses to just come out and state specifics as to who/what/when/where makes me suspicious.

Even when they backpedaled on their own story regarding "Nvidia is doing damage control" story they would not name a single other AIB outside of ASUS as being an AIB that was implementing their own BIOS.

My BS detector is tuned, batteries are fresh, I've been in this business and I know BS when I see it being spread around. Kitguru is deflecting, they made a pile of assumptions and strung along a bunch of innuendo and got called on it.

Rather than own up to it they try and wiggle away with the "well we heard rumblings from other AIB's too..." BS. If there was any truth to it they'd put names in print.

At any rate I could not care less about kitguru's reputation, that is something everyone has to decide for themselves. Some folks to this day think Charlie and S/A is gospel truth, and I know it won't matter the track-record of Kitguru because there will be that group of people out there that will defend them to the end.

I'm not interested in being in that battle on either side, but the specific article of reference of late was rather telling in its headline versus reality.

Now we got another kitguru article-based thread. Is it real? Is it sensationalism BS again? Only time will tell, but I have the right to be skeptical and to reserve judgement for a while until I see some corroborating evidence backing up kitguru's credibility. I'd be foolish, from my perspective, to not be skeptical at this point.

Well said :thumbsup:

 

[Obsoleet]

I don't check this forum everyday so I'm glad this has been reposted and kept at the top. Now I know not to buy a Geforce. Mods, sticky for a few weeks for the good of the community? Sounds reasonable.

 

[FalseChristian]

I think as GPUs get ever more complicated you are gonna see more and more defects.

 

[thilanliyan]

I don't check this forum everyday so I'm glad this has been reposted and kept at the top. Now I know not to buy a Geforce. Mods, sticky for a few weeks for the good of the community? Sounds reasonable.

I don't think ALL Geforce cards are questionable. Just maybe this one if you intend to overclock AND overvolt.

 

[Silverforce11]

So you're going to buy two of the highest end 28nm gpu's at launch? Looks like you're rocking a last gen middle tier gpu and a two generation old CPU. So now you're gonna spend 3 times what your computer is worth on next gen cards? :scratches head:

Last gen top tier GPU, if you knew what you are on about. The 5850 when OC is ~4% of a 5870 also OC, but at a vastly cheaper price at release. When it was released, the 5870 was the top end single GPU. The setup is still very strong thus i skipped this gen. So whenever 28nm hits, it's a new rig with a CF/SLI of two top end GPUs again.

The point is CF/SLI of high end single GPUs will always be a good idea for people looking to get extra performance. The power use vs perf gain is great and game support has improved a great deal. If dual GPU cards are done right, its just as viable and tempting (or more, with quad CF/SLI) a setup as normal CF/SLI.

 

[Silverforce11]

I think as GPUs get ever more complicated you are gonna see more and more defects.

No. We've gotten better and better products over the years. Driver compatibility has been the best its ever been. CF/SLI scaling is awesome. Perf/watt and perf/$$ are also top notch.

NV just screwed up with the reference 590. They could just have added 1 extra VRM for each GPU and none of this would be an issue.

 

[Keysplayr]

No. We've gotten better and better products over the years. Driver compatibility has been the best its ever been. CF/SLI scaling is awesome. Perf/watt and perf/$$ are also top notch.

NV just screwed up with the reference 590. They could just have added 1 extra VRM for each GPU and none of this would be an issue.

The only thing "screwed up" about GTX590 is that is cannot be overvolted with latest drivers and isn't a stellar overclocker. It doesn't need an extra VRM to operate normally and even a small stock voltage o/c +/- @10% as evidenced by public results.

There is no fail with the exception of early drivers and the possibility of AIB BIOS issue.

Whatever issues existed before due to those two issues, are not present now. The GTX590 functions the way is it supposed to. I should know, I have one. Soon to be two.

So, in all seriousness and for the sake of the technical community, stop the sensationalism.

 

[Keysplayr]

Oh, and another thing. Did anyone know that the current owner of KitGuru, name of "Zardon" from Driverheaven, now called Hardware heaven, is the guy who once started the contest for the most creative way to destroy a GeForce 6800Ultra? Many can research Zardons past views as well. Not exactly friendly to Nvidia over the years.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/other-tech-news/62246-driverheaven-destruction.html

Same guy owns KitGuru. If there are any members who don't wish to know this kind of stuff or if you think it does not pertain to this thread, let me know.

 

[NIGELG]

Oh, and another thing. Did anyone know that the current owner of KitGuru, name of "Zardon" from Driverheaven, now called Hardware heaven, is the guy who once started the contest for the most creative way to destroy a GeForce 6800Ultra? Many can research Zardons past views as well. Not exactly friendly to Nvidia over the years.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/other-tech-news/62246-driverheaven-destruction.html

Same guy owns KitGuru. If there are any members who don't wish to know this kind of stuff or if you think it does not pertain to this thread, let me know.

Good to know....maybe he has an agenda just like lots of people seem to have agendas here.

 

[railven]

Oh, and another thing. Did anyone know that the current owner of KitGuru, name of "Zardon" from Driverheaven, now called Hardware heaven, is the guy who once started the contest for the most creative way to destroy a GeForce 6800Ultra? Many can research Zardons past views as well. Not exactly friendly to Nvidia over the years.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/other-tech-news/62246-driverheaven-destruction.html

Same guy owns KitGuru. If there are any members who don't wish to know this kind of stuff or if you think it does not pertain to this thread, let me know.

At least quote the reference in proper context. It isn't a "contest for the most creative way to destroy a GeForce 6800Ultra," which can easily be inferred as the authors have some axe to grind against the product. It's contest for the "chance to choose how we "retire" our ageing Geforce 6800 Ultra".

Reading the OP I assume they meant a AGP version of the card since Intel/AMD now support PCIE, so they have no use for it.

 

[railven]

Good to know....maybe he has an agenda just like lots of people seem to have agendas here.

And my point was validated.

 

[Idontcare]

Oh, and another thing. Did anyone know that the current owner of KitGuru, name of "Zardon" from Driverheaven, now called Hardware heaven, is the guy who once started the contest for the most creative way to destroy a GeForce 6800Ultra? Many can research Zardons past views as well. Not exactly friendly to Nvidia over the years.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/other-tech-news/62246-driverheaven-destruction.html

Same guy owns KitGuru. If there are any members who don't wish to know this kind of stuff or if you think it does not pertain to this thread, let me know.

(apologies in advance for the wall of bolded text)

Keysplayr, IMO this doesn't belong here, while it is relevant to the topic of kitguru's credibility it is beyond the relevance of this thread.

Leave the post as-is, but let's not have this derail the thread. You've made your case now don't dwell on it.

Critiquing the credibility of review sites and news-sites is relevant to the VC&G community, either within a thread like this where it is germane or as a stand-alone thread.

But it needs to be balanced, and not consume the thread itself. Collectively, my member posts included, the community is on the verge of unbalancing this thread with kitguru credibility side-topics rather than focusing on the technical content contained in the OP.

If you want to make a thread detailing kitguru's credibility and reputation, and you want to move your post over to that thread, I would support the existence of such a thread in the forum.

(and the OP of this thread might appreciate the matter of kitguru's credibility being taken to a different thread as well)

Idontcare
Super Mod

 

[SirPauly]

No. We've gotten better and better products over the years. Driver compatibility has been the best its ever been. CF/SLI scaling is awesome. Perf/watt and perf/$$ are also top notch.

NV just screwed up with the reference 590. They could just have added 1 extra VRM for each GPU and none of this would be an issue.

The product is poor to you because it isn't a GTX 580 Sli performing product and more of a GTX 570 Sli performing product in a single card.

I think GTX 570 Sli performance in a single card with their feature set is a welcomed choice.

 

[badb0y]

With the GTX 590, you get what you paid for, over clocking/over volting is a variable that is an added bonus if it does well, it's not something I would base my purchase on, however if I was in the market for one of these cards, I would go with the HD 6990 because I enjoy over clocking and over volting and the GTX 590s burning up doesn't help it.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I don't think ALL Geforce cards are questionable. Just maybe this one if you intend to overclock AND overvolt.

I don't either, but there does seem to be some quality issues with Nvidia based graphics cards over the last few years. At least more so than AMD based cards. How many 8xxx/9xxx 'bake' threads have we seen? It's almost common practice in the list of the first few things to try when a GeForce 8xxx/9xxx is having problems. The whole 'bumpgate' problem is well known, also. And now the GTX590, which very well may be fine at stock clocks or with a small clock speed bump, but it seems to be on the fragile side overall... which brings me to the next quote I'm going to respond to.

With the GTX 590, you get what you paid for, over clocking/over volting is a variable that is an added bonus if it does well, it's not something I would base my purchase on, however if I was in the market for one of these cards, I would go with the HD 6990 because I enjoy over clocking and over volting and the GTX 590s burning up doesn't help it.

Yup, anything you get from overclocking and overvolting is just extra that you didn't pay for, a bonus. But, when two products are priced identically, perform very, very close to one another, but one seems to be well built and allows the flexibility of overvolting and one does not as they fail when overvolted, I'll probably go with the one that seems better built.

 

[Keysplayr]

Thanks for the critique IDC. I'll see about a dedicated thread later tonight.

 

[Grooveriding]

With the GTX 590, you get what you paid for, over clocking/over volting is a variable that is an added bonus if it does well, it's not something I would base my purchase on, however if I was in the market for one of these cards, I would go with the HD 6990 because I enjoy over clocking and over volting and the GTX 590s burning up doesn't help it.

Agreed. From nearly all accounts of failing gtx 590s it involved overclocking and overvolting. So you can pay your $700 and get the stock gtx 590 performance. With the choices on the market though and the availability of the 6990 the 590 is a tough sell.

An enthusiast level card with the price to match and a disclaimer of being unstable with overclocking is not appealing to me. The 6990 presents equal and in some conditions superior performance along with giving you the choice to overclock and overvolt to even higher performance. With the 590 you are not given choice, you get the stock card and a smidgen of whatever overclock you can put on stock voltage along with a track record amongst reviewers of perpensity to burn out if you overclock the card.

Looking at various hardware forums and their 590 related threads a lot of similar sentiments are found there. Disappointment in the fragility of what should of been a beast of a card.