King's Bounty - "classic" Armored Princess or Orcs version?

DaveSimmons

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Aug 12, 2001
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I picked up the collection in the Steam sale so I have both Armored Princes and Crossworlds.

One review describes the Orcs version of Armored Princess in Crossworlds as the "directors cut", but after a couple of hours of play the orcs additions feel tacked-on to me.

If you've played both, which version did you prefer?
 

Elcs

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Apr 27, 2002
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Having previously completed Armoured Princess, I enjoyed playing through the Rise of The Orcs campaign, despite it being 99% the same.

The new additions do feel tacked on but it's still an enjoyable experience.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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Having previously completed Armoured Princess, I enjoyed playing through the Rise of The Orcs campaign, despite it being 99% the same.

The new additions do feel tacked on but it's still an enjoyable experience.

--
The new addition is very tacked on but what makes KB series great is the game play; and the tack on includes a lot of new items.
--
I also have a slight preference for the original KB; while AP mechanics are probably a little more tactful the story and layout of the first is much better IMHO. Also I find the first more difficult overall.

In case it is not obvious 'the first' I refer to is KB-L which came out a year earlier.
 

shortylickens

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Jul 15, 2003
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Only played original and Armored Princess.
That was more than enough. The games are fun but great big grinds and I never want to play again. Best of luck to people who still enjoy them. We dont have enough TBS's these days.
 

zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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I'm digging Legend but I agree with Shorty that it is very grindy. it is also more difficult than I imagine. Leveling of the armies is rather odd--for instance, I waited way too long to help rescue the wizard form the tower in one of the earlier maps, plowed through very weak armies up to the top (I was probably 4 levels and 10x army size to those), then get to the final boss of that tower--some kind of staff? which was way too fucking strong.

weird that the boss of that quest seemed to be 15x the power of the armies in the quest.

anyway, is this orcs campaign included within Crossworlds, or is it an extra that you have to purchase?
 

StinkyPinky

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Jul 6, 2002
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It's definitely tacked on. THey've just pasted in another house here and there and that's it.

I'm playing it anyway. I played as a warrior in both KBL and AP, so playing as a mage this time is quite different. I find it harder.

Great games
 

zebano

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Jun 15, 2005
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I'm digging Legend but I agree with Shorty that it is very grindy. it is also more difficult than I imagine. Leveling of the armies is rather odd--for instance, I waited way too long to help rescue the wizard form the tower in one of the earlier maps, plowed through very weak armies up to the top (I was probably 4 levels and 10x army size to those), then get to the final boss of that tower--some kind of staff? which was way too fucking strong.

weird that the boss of that quest seemed to be 15x the power of the armies in the quest.

anyway, is this orcs campaign included within Crossworlds, or is it an extra that you have to purchase?

Heh I remember that spot, that's what the 'scouting' ability is for. It's one hell of a long game though I'm still working through it despite starting last July.
 

Elcs

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Apr 27, 2002
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I'm digging Legend but I agree with Shorty that it is very grindy. it is also more difficult than I imagine. Leveling of the armies is rather odd--for instance, I waited way too long to help rescue the wizard form the tower in one of the earlier maps, plowed through very weak armies up to the top (I was probably 4 levels and 10x army size to those), then get to the final boss of that tower--some kind of staff? which was way too fucking strong.

weird that the boss of that quest seemed to be 15x the power of the armies in the quest.

anyway, is this orcs campaign included within Crossworlds, or is it an extra that you have to purchase?

The 'Rise of the Orcs' Campaign is in Crossworlds. It is simply the normal KB:AP campaign with a few new items/locations/quests pasted in there.

As for difficulty, I agree! It's blooming tough... however you see people on the official forums boasting about a "No Losses" victory on "Impossible" difficulty. That is scary to me.
 

DaveSimmons

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Thanks all, I think I'll start over with the plain / classic version of Princess for my first play, then if I feel like replaying it later I'll play the orc-ified version.

You definitely need to play more carefully as a mage and use your spellcasting wisely to make up for your much lower number of troops. Summons (drayds/thorns adding thorns, Phantom in Legend, Call of Nature in Princess) seem to help since you can let them be wiped out without losing your real troops.

In Legends you also want to get the chest of rage and the first two inhabitants as early as possible to help shift the odds and so they level up with you.
 

zebano

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Jun 15, 2005
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AP Question here, does it get easier after some levels? I ask because KB:TL on hard wasn't terribly hard so I tried AP on impossible.... and after a couple of enemies on the second island, I can't find any fights that I can without massive losses (Warrior with L1 distortion magic and an army of Royal Snakes, inquisitors, Royal Thorns, Evil Beholders & cyclops). I've got the first medal for no-loss victories but I can barely win fights now without losing 20 or so troops.

I restarted on normal and it's ... too easy so I may have to either try impossible as a mage or see if hard has the right balance of difficulty.
 

DaveSimmons

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What I'm finding as a mage is you have to go between the islands looking for what you can win now and what you need to come back to later. For example a very strong mob without a hero vs. a strong one with hero at your own level or below.

The minimum difficulty goes up with each island but you can still dodge the warships and nibble around the edges of a new island to take out the weakest armies. You can also sneak around to grab some banners and crystals.

The overall difficulty does seem higher than The Legend to me at least.

Also: Paladins are your friend for no-loss victories. With Paladins and Inquisitors you have two troops that can resurrect.
 

you2

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Apr 2, 2002
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That tower is one of the few places that is poorly balanced. It is intended for someone higher level. The part that is imbalance is that it is easy to plow up to the top only to get
annihilated. A second (similar place) is the haunted house. Most of the game has a very good progression in difficulty. It is also long (for folks who like long games; approx 40 hours).

I'm digging Legend but I agree with Shorty that it is very grindy. it is also more difficult than I imagine. Leveling of the armies is rather odd--for instance, I waited way too long to help rescue the wizard form the tower in one of the earlier maps, plowed through very weak armies up to the top (I was probably 4 levels and 10x army size to those), then get to the final boss of that tower--some kind of staff? which was way too fucking strong.

weird that the boss of that quest seemed to be 15x the power of the armies in the quest.

anyway, is this orcs campaign included within Crossworlds, or is it an extra that you have to purchase?
 

Specop 007

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Jan 31, 2005
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GO mage, run up to higher magic as quickly as you can. Its always a toss up for me whether I go Higher Magic or Chaos lvl 2 first.

Either way, once you get Higher Magic and Fiery Rain along with the Chest its just a walkthrough for the most part at least as far as I've went (Which admittedly isnt very far).
 

zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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AP Question here, does it get easier after some levels? I ask because KB:TL on hard wasn't terribly hard so I tried AP on impossible.... and after a couple of enemies on the second island, I can't find any fights that I can without massive losses (Warrior with L1 distortion magic and an army of Royal Snakes, inquisitors, Royal Thorns, Evil Beholders & cyclops). I've got the first medal for no-loss victories but I can barely win fights now without losing 20 or so troops.

I restarted on normal and it's ... too easy so I may have to either try impossible as a mage or see if hard has the right balance of difficulty.

I've been playing AP as a mage on normal difficulty, and I find it near impossible. How the hell do you guys do it? all of the worthwhile mage abilities are buried at the bottom of the skill chart, so it's like the early game is spent running from every army you see, as they will simply wipe you the heck out.

I got so sick of not being able to prgress, at all--(every single army was scouted as "Impossible"), so I add to do a few cheats to bump up leadership by a few hundred points. :( I think the penalty to leadership in comparison to the warrior class is completely unbalanced towards the mages magic benefits.

or maybe I'm doing something completely wrong. :\
 

zinfamous

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What I'm finding as a mage is you have to go between the islands looking for what you can win now and what you need to come back to later. For example a very strong mob without a hero vs. a strong one with hero at your own level or below.

The minimum difficulty goes up with each island but you can still dodge the warships and nibble around the edges of a new island to take out the weakest armies. You can also sneak around to grab some banners and crystals.

The overall difficulty does seem higher than The Legend to me at least.

Also: Paladins are your friend for no-loss victories. With Paladins and Inquisitors you have two troops that can resurrect.

ah, yeah. maybe I need to grab some paladins. I didn't like their expense, though, considering I'm constantly having to replace my troops. :(

I also picked the yellow dragon, as I like increase crit chance. The chargers ability--I never liked that in Legend b/c it also gives benefit to the opposing army.

I do find that the wall ability for the dragon is sometimes helpful in creating chokepoints where you can funnel the targets towards your tanks, but the wall is so weak; you have to wait for the other army to move away from the area a bit before you place it, otherwise they'll just take it down on their next move and keep on going.
 

DaveSimmons

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I play at normal and that's quite difficult enough for me. I chose the purple dragon for the +1 attack since I knew that stat would always be lower for a mage.

Also I did some running and dodging to grab banners while wandering monsters were too far away to catch me, and bought leadership-enhancing items. That, and going around the island via boat so I could look for weaker monsters like the devilfish at one beach.

Paladins can pay for themselves because the high hitpoints mean you might lose 0 of them from the same attack that would kill several level 1-2 creatures. Also their higher defense means an attacker does less points of damage.

I also used the dragon's knockback tactically to keep a strong stack from reaching my troops for an extra turn or two.

Once you have the Rusty Anchor map, dodge the ships and pick up Jim for a companion, then buy the lower-level guys that he trains up to pirates. That saves gold, and also they have initiative 7 which often lets you cast a spell before the enemy can move. Be extra-nice to Jim while recruiting him and you'll also get a gift artifact that's pretty nice.
 

zebano

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Jun 15, 2005
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So I finally reached the continent of Verona and was able to purchase two trolls... holy hell those guys are good. From there I was easily able to backtrack to Bolo, Rusty Anchor and Scarlet wind and clear them easily without loss. I eventually found a resurrect scroll so things should be getting easier. I also got the bottom right skill in the might tree that gives you a minimum mana, sweet!! Now I just need frenzy and I'll be a happy commander.
 

zinfamous

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playing through Legends as a warrior, I decided to max out frenzy real quick. That seems to be an epic skill, especially when you have a polar bears (or ancient bears). --I think the polar bear frenzy + hero frenzy stacks...I think.
 

DaveSimmons

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Once I hit the 30s and had stacks of paladins, inquisitors and the resurrection spell it's become much easier to have 0-loss battles as a mage.

I also have green dragons which if used carefully can soak up a lot of damage without dying -- their very high defense means a low-level stack will do only 1/2 - 1/3 of their listed damage, and they have 2 attacks that can't be retaliated against. With Higher Magic I can cast a heal on them if they need it, then a destruction spell.
 

boozie

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Oct 12, 2006
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Anyone know where I can find the AP "Master Mod"? I've asked around practically everywhere imaginable. Really I'm trying to get the "Army Shop" mod that was released for TL to work on AP. Someone made a Crossworlds version but I can't get it to work for AP.
 

DaveSimmons

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I finished the "plain" version of Armored Princess last night, on normal difficulty as a mage. I did almost all of the side quests and ended at level 56.

I'd recommend the "plain" version over the "Orcs on the March" version for the first time you play it, then play it with Orcs if you feel like playing it again later.

It was a lot of fun and anyone who likes turn based HOMM style games should consider picking up the King's Bounty collection the next time Steam has it on sale (I paid $10 for KB + AP + Crossworlds).
 
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Loved these games. Played through them all on the hardest difficulty.

More games need to be frustratingly hard like this series :p
 

zinfamous

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Well, DS, your rec to go for Paladins certainly helped for a little while, but I'm still stuck on Verona with massively overpowered armies and I can't advance until I get past that main castle. I can only hold 7 paladins (maybe a few more, actually), but I'm down to 5--and the only source of Paladins open to me is completely dry now. (first island, the tower right at the beginning.)

:(

I'll pick it back up in a little while, though.
 

DaveSimmons

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Tip: cross the bridge between Verona and Monterro, there's something interesting along the way.

If you're playing as a mage, there's a house by the bridge with an interesting guy there.

After crossing by bridge You might also try going to Monerro by boat, but you'll need to dodge a ship that's probably too tough for you right now. If you can do that, there is loot, banners, weaker enemies. along the coast.

Also, if you have the map to Eton by now, there's a shop along the coast that in my game sold green dragons. If you heal them as needed they take a lot of punishment without dying.

My mid-game fighting force after switching away from Jim as my companion:
Archmages, Inquisitors, Paladins, Horsemen, Emerald Dragons. Also, if you have enough of them, Inquisitors can resurrect a dragon (unlike the resurrection spell which only works for level 1-4 troops)
 

DaveSimmons

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Some notes / tips I made for myself for when I replay AP again someday:


Notice that spell power scales with INT, with extra bonuses every multiple of 7 (INT = 7, 14, 21, ...)

Don't trade runes in Monterro. You might have too many X now, but you'll need them later.


Troops:
Inquisitors are the only way to resurrect level 5 troops. Casting Phantom on your Inquistors is one way to resurrect level 5 if you've already used the Inquisitors' one charge.


Your dragon:
Crushing blow's knockback is a way to keep an enemy troop away from yours while you work on its fellows

If the enemy is no longer a threat (no hero casting spells, troop has no ranged attack or is almost dead), use any rage to dig up treasure (it can rarely even be a rune). Wake Dragon will let you dig up 2 chests in one turn.


Skills:
It can be better to get level 3 of 1 skill than 3 x level 1. For example, the attack and defense skills go +1, +3, +6. So level 3 is +6 while 3 separate skills might all be +1.

Neatness level 1 is great, especially if you are a mage, but it will only give you crystals. Level 2 is also worthwhile later on since there is a lot of level 4 gear and some of it gives you 2 runes instead of crystals. Don't destory anything without the matching Neatness level or you'll just get a lousy 1 crystal.

Alchemy: get Neatness instead.

Holy anger is very useful later in the game since you'll face a lot of demons and undead. At level 3 their attack is -15!

Work towards Higher Magic as soon as possible. It will let you dispell / heal + attack, or do two attacks like Fire Rain + Geyser

I found Rage much less useful in AP as a mage, so I would fill out the mage skills and other mind / might skills before getting the Might rage skills.

Items / Gear:
Some gear sets have very nice bonuses, making them worth collecting even if one set item isn't worth using by itself. BUT: gear is randomized, and you may never find all the pieces of a set.


Spells:
Pay attention to mana cost of higher-level spells, for a few (heal, fire arrow) the cost is constant or even goes down. And level 3 heal also cures poison.

Remember you can use level 1-2 versions of a spell even after you learn level 3, with shift and control keys.

Teleport is handy if you're fighting demonesses.

Trap can stop any (non-flying?) stack for a turn, and block anything behind it. Like the dragon's crushing blow it can buy time.

Clam Rage spell is great for non-hero boss battles (Driller, Spider,...) since you can't use your dragon in them. Phantom is also very useful against these bosses.

Favorite opnening attack: (Fire rain or level 2 ice snake) + Geyser.


More on Spells:
Geyser - essential tool for whittling down enemies, at level 3 you get 8 strong attacks out of it (if 8 enemies). Very useful for upgrading / suppressing items.
Healing - cost goes down at higher levels, level 3 also removes poison / plague
Fire arrow - damage and % burning grows, cost does not
Poison skull - good for anything that resists fire, poison chance is 100% at level 3
Later:
Teleport - get Demoness-teleported units back to safety, move a slow tank (knight, paladin, ent) into range of an enemy ranged unit