Kids going back to school, a non-parent observation

[s0me0nesmind1]

People can scream about parents being self interested assholes all they want, but at the end of the day we live in a system and society that requires children go to school for more than just their house educational needs but for the whole system to function.

I mean, what country DOESNT rely on that system of kids going to school?

What country through this pandemic shut down schools and life continued as normal?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

-Since I'm not going to pick up a gun and start shooting people, I guess I'll argue with the school board and threaten to remove my kids from the public school system so they lose the associated funding that comes from having my children enrolled.

I'll also try to work as much "think of the children" stuff into the discussion as possible and champion the really poor latino kids that attend our school that the district has essentially "lost" (literally, they cannot locate them, dunno where they are, they do not participate in any remote learning at all) since the start of shelter in place.

It'd be a real bitch to survive Covid only to get shanked by one of these kids that fell through the cracks a couple years down the line.

This.

People can say you're an evil rich upper-class person all they want - As much as it is effecting you - it is effecting the poor communities 50x the rate as upper class.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

Newsom ordered districts in Counties on the State's watchlist to open distance learning. If we drop off the watchlist and stay off for over 14 days, we can start in class instruction. I'm ok with this, I might need to convince the boss to let me work from home a few days a week or something to give the wife a break during the day.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I mean, what country DOESNT rely on that system of kids going to school?

What country through this pandemic shut down schools and life continued as normal?

- Probably countries with a really low female labor force participation rate.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Not that those countries are on top of any sort of functional COVID response (if they even have one) but more that they would be able to weather the closing of schools better.

Go Yemen... I guess.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

- Probably countries with a really low female labor force participation rate.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Not that those countries are on top of any sort of functional COVID response (if they even have one) but more that they would be able to weather the closing of schools better.

Go Yemen... I guess.

Sheeet... Women's labor force participation has been going DOWN globally over the last 30 years?

That just.... doesn't sound right?

 

[rh71]

...why is it that your children normally go to school for six to seven hours a day for what should the same learning that they're currently completing within two hours? Is the work too easy? Is there not enough work? Is remote learning limiting the amount that can be taught, and consequently, the amount of work that can be assigned?

The last one, by far. Some teachers were so technically challenged that they had the kids help figure it out. And because it wasn't a level playing field as far as technical aptitude goes, it was very much luck of the draw what you would receive from 1 teacher vs another. Some did Zoom / Google Classroom calls once a week on a Friday and only for those who didn't understand something (my kids' teachers). Some didn't do that at all. Some did actual lessons through it. The 2 hours of work (if that) I mentioned was basically 10 minutes of a video the teachers recorded simply instructing them on what to do, not an actual lesson. They left that mostly to the worksheets whether it was ELA, social studies, science, or math. Every other day was only 4 periods instead of 8. They would get through one subject in like a half hour. And since it was pass/fail only, you can guess how much some kids actually cared.

Mind you, the technical hurdles were an easy out for the teachers even if they did know what they were doing. Some claimed they had kids of their own to take care of so they couldn't possibly put that time in to do a live lesson. Excuse me, but we're STILL paying you $130k/yr and you're only working how many months of the year? Figure it out. That part irks me the most.

There was also this one math lesson where it wasn't even clear if some of the concepts being used in the multi-answer question were ever covered.

This is par for the course for schoolwork these days. At least a couple times a week they come to me asking how to do something because it wasn't covered in a lesson. It takes all of my schooling recollection to figure it out sometimes... and somehow 6th graders were supposed to figure it out because they want them to do critical thinking a grade or two above what they are. I get that it's good for them, but not every kid has the patience to sit there and work through such things, so it's all very difficult and it goes back to not being able to apply 1 method of remote learning to everyone.

Although, speaking of math and the quality of education, one thing that has made me raise a brow lately. I've been around my girlfriend's kids (10 and 13) a lot more lately, and I was taken aback when I watched them perform single-digit multiplication (e.g. 4 * 5) on their fingers. We had to memorize the times tables up to 10 x 10 back in third grade, and I went to a small school out in the boonies. I've also noticed a significant increase in difficulty when the kids approach an explicitly written problem (e.g. solve 4 * 5) versus a word problem. That worries me more given that solving word problems involves skills that transcend just math, and I'd argue that they're quite important.

They do still memorize the multiplication tables here. Also PEMDAS is still taught. It's about the only thing they have to straight memorize. I for one feel the "Shanghai math" is much better for their abstract thinking and shortcuts to get answers quicker. I've seen it work with them. As for real-world usage, I take every opportunity to test them when something comes up - it only takes a minute. Not everyone will care as much, but if I'm voluntarily staying here and paying these school taxes, you bet I will push them.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

So it looks like a new era in latchkeying children are out there. Great times for pedophiles.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

So it looks like a new era in latchkeying children are out there. Great times for pedophiles.

What exactly do you mean by that term? Personally not familiar.

If you're referring to the concept of children being trusted to walk home from a bus stop and let themselves into their home before the parents get home.... That's uhhhh... been that way? For 30+ years?

 

[purbeast0]

With my second son being born on or around August 9th, my wife is going to be staying home full time for at least 3-4 years. Our only son now is 5 and is supposed to start Kindergarten. I don't know if that is going to happen or what is going to happen. But remote learning for a 5 year old simply is going to be pretty useless. Kids that age need interaction. I'm really concerned about it and what is going to happen as we don't know yet.

If we did home schooling, then my wife would have to teach him and also deal with a 1 month old. I mean that just isn't very realistic.

Thankfully though, if he does have to stay home, we at least have a plan since my wife will be home and only I will be working. So in a way we are lucky with that.

 

[rh71]

So it looks like a new era in latchkeying children are out there. Great times for pedophiles.

I don't know what that term means but I'll tell you - right now kids are going to camps where parents aren't even allowed in the building. Just finished a tennis camp like that. They have a semi-private lesson with a hockey coach in 2 hrs and I have to tie their skates outside the rink and in they go. My wife had the sexual-predator talk with them last night...

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't know what that term means but I'll tell you - right now kids are going to camps where parents aren't even allowed in the building. My kids have a semi-private lesson with a hockey coach in 2 hrs and I have to tie their skates outside the rink and in they go. My wife had the sexual-predator talk with them last night...

Heres what a quick google says:



Like I said, this is nothing new - I did this when I was in school 20+ years ago. So I'm not sure what his point is?

If anything what has taken over lately is hellicopter parenting where the parents are in their cars sitting at the bus stop in the morning and also waiting for them when they drop them off.... Fucking sad.

 

[rh71]

I think helicopter parenting is overused. It's more than in the past because of awareness these days, but I also see plenty of kids walking home on their own. Kids riding bikes in the neighborhood with their friends, etc.

Because of evolution, parents (we were kids once too) naturally do more because we know more and always want to improve upon things. The challenge is realizing how much learning kids must do for themselves.

 

[olds]

The first round, the youngest granddaughter (9) stayed isolated with us and did home schooling as her parents had to work. She went home after school was out.

No school her for at least the first trimester and were not sure how the parents intend to handle it as they are still working.

 

[Spacehead]

What exactly do you mean by that term? Personally not familiar.

If you're referring to the concept of children being trusted to walk home from a bus stop and let themselves into their home before the parents get home.... That's uhhhh... been that way? For 30+ years?

No kids here, but i always found it odd/amusing/whatever... the mass exodus from work of people that "had to go pick up there kids". I guess there are no buses anymore? No wait, there are.
OK, i can understand kids to young to take care of themselves coming home to an empty house but i know some of those kids were of an age where they should be able to take care of themselves. Buses around here can't pick up or drop off kids at a bus stop either. It has to be done in front of their house.


Just read an article in the local online paper that school districts here are still trying to come up with plans for in-school learning with a backup plan for if the county moves back to a yellow or red phase.

 

[PingSpike]

No kids here, but i always found it odd/amusing/whatever... the mass exodus from work of people that "had to go pick up there kids". I guess there are no buses anymore? No wait, there are.

I'm certainly not speaking in a general sense, but we ended up just dropping off and picking up our daughter. She actually wanted to take the bus but for some bizarre reason they had it setup so she'd be dropped off almost last and picked up almost first. On top of a lot of bus changes. She was going to be on buses for 2+ hours a day. We live about 5 minutes from the school. I assume some douchebag on the school board has kids on the other end of the loop who have 10 minutes trips both ways.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I don't know what that term means but I'll tell you - right now kids are going to camps where parents aren't even allowed in the building. Just finished a tennis camp like that. They have a semi-private lesson with a hockey coach in 2 hrs and I have to tie their skates outside the rink and in they go. My wife had the sexual-predator talk with them last night...

Latchkey Child?

 

[Aikouka]

The last one, by far. Some teachers were so technically challenged that they had the kids help figure it out. And because it wasn't a level playing field as far as technical aptitude goes, it was very much luck of the draw what you would receive from 1 teacher vs another. Some did Zoom / Google Classroom calls once a week on a Friday and only for those who didn't understand something (my kids' teachers). Some didn't do that at all. Some did actual lessons through it. The 2 hours of work (if that) I mentioned was basically 10 minutes of a video the teachers recorded simply instructing them on what to do, not an actual lesson. They left that mostly to the worksheets whether it was ELA, social studies, science, or math. Every other day was only 4 periods instead of 8. They would get through one subject in like a half hour. And since it was pass/fail only, you can guess how much some kids actually cared.

Mind you, the technical hurdles were an easy out for the teachers even if they did know what they were doing. Some claimed they had kids of their own to take care of so they couldn't possibly put that time in to do a live lesson. Excuse me, but we're STILL paying you $130k/yr and you're only working how many months of the year? Figure it out. That part irks me the most.

I think one of the kids only had a call with their teacher twice, and it wasn't a lesson, but rather a "how is everyone doing?" sort of thing. I'm not really sure how the math lessons worked... or if there were lessons at all. I recall this website where you'd log in, and answer a bunch of questions that would have a sort of "more information" button to provide help in solving the question. Although, as noted before, the help often didn't elaborate enough as the question allowed multiple answers, and they would sometimes include the obvious answer and a tricky one. I had to break out the whiteboard a few times just to go over math concepts. Although, I did worry a bit that I was getting too technical at times!

Although, I guess to some degree... I can't really blame the teachers too much. The whole distance/remote learning thing was thrust upon them suddenly, and I'm going to take a wild guess that they likely received little help/guidance from their district. Also, while the summer break is supposed to serve as a preparatory period for teachers, how do you prep for your next year when you have no idea if it will be in person or remote? Of course, this doesn't let those off that didn't even make an effort, but I think it's fair to keep in mind the burden placed upon the teacher.

This is par for the course for schoolwork these days. At least a couple times a week they come to me asking how to do something because it wasn't covered in a lesson. It takes all of my schooling recollection to figure it out sometimes... and somehow 6th graders were supposed to figure it out because they want them to do critical thinking a grade or two above what they are. I get that it's good for them, but not every kid has the patience to sit there and work through such things, so it's all very difficult and it goes back to not being able to apply 1 method of remote learning to everyone.

I wish I could remember what the problem was. I know it had to do with parenthesis and such. I think it was something like 3 * (4 + 3) instead of the more obvious answer of 12 + 9.

Although, speaking of patience, that sort of thing has been on my mind a bit lately. I've been picking up on a rather brash amount of impatience, which arguably borders on laziness. Now, I realize that, in general, kids tend to be far more self-indulgent, live in the moment, and lack the consideration for consequences, which all of those are very counter to the idea of patience. However, it's the idea of wanting to "lay a foundation" and look for growth... and not expecting 100% compliance. An easy example of this is how the kids will cook a personal pizza in the microwave instead of the stove "because it's faster"... regardless of how it turns the pizza into a soggy, sloppy mess. I've been tempted to push for cooking things like that correctly as a means to help solidify the idea of having some patience.

Speaking of kids being impulsive and video games, I really don't like that Roblox game. This isn't some sort of "hate whatever the kids do" sort of thing, but rather, it's down to the business model of the game. It first struck me when they had five dollars worth of Robucks, and it was gone in the blink of an eye. What was it used for? A progress upgrade to avoid having to sink time into one of the sub-games. As someone that has fallen into the micro-transaction trap in games, it really irks me the way some of these sub-games are developed to push self-indulgent kids to pay to avoid boring monotony. They also told me about how this one fast food simulator sub-game required you to spend eight (real world) hours in the game just to upgrade... or pay to skip the time.

They do still memorize the multiplication tables here. Also PEMDAS is still taught. It's about the only thing they have to straight memorize. I for one feel the "Shanghai math" is much better for their abstract thinking and shortcuts to get answers quicker. I've seen it work with them. As for real-world usage, I take every opportunity to test them when something comes up - it only takes a minute. Not everyone will care as much, but if I'm voluntarily staying here and paying these school taxes, you bet I will push them.

I know they've had to use PEMDAS before, but I'm not sure about the times tables. I tried looking up the Shanghai Math Method, but I was never able to find a great example as to what's different. It seems like it focuses more on word problems rather than explicit problems?

If anything what has taken over lately is hellicopter parenting where the parents are in their cars sitting at the bus stop in the morning and also waiting for them when they drop them off.... Fucking sad.

What I tend to see is this desire to avoid conflict. Parents will swoop in to try to fix things, leave a bigger mess in their wake, and miss what is arguably the most important part... teaching their kid how to handle conflict. Learning conflict resolution is an important part of growing up, and well... life in general.

 

[gorcorps]

Politics aside ...

I understand greatly the concerns of parents in sending their children back to school during this continued pandemic. It has truly been a challenge for parents in having to assist in their child's education along with whatever solutions their municipalities have used to get them back to learning in a remote way. But my curious contention is why is this an issue at all? For many years now, many school districts have offered Home Schooling as an alternative method to in-classroom instruction. Is there some reason why the general masses cannot commute to this program and overcome the president's initiatives to get schools open again? Parents would already need to be home to remote-assist in their kids education so why not go one step more and formalize it?

As for the school systems ... well, they seem to also not be ready, mentally and physically, to re-opening their schools. But do they realize the consequences of this in-action. I am not promoting re-opening schools, but a year without in-classroom usage is a year one cannot justify an institution's existence. As a property tax payer with 70-72% of his said property taxes going to the pubic school system, should I expect to get a partial refund? Just two miles from me they are building a new high school (my county has a very large school system and student population) and by the time it is ready the pandemic needs to be over with of cost justification just will not hide the expenditures as being seen as wasteful.

Now, I have been a long time advocate of non-congregated learning. Technology has rendered most of the reasons mute. The pandemic not only proved that remote learning can be done, but it has been done and the many localized system can easily support this. If parents are willing to make the in-home time for home schooling then I think the president's push would be automatically mutes. The only counter-argument my half-asleep brain can think of are parental latchkey situations that are taking place and that speaks more of legal aspects in parenting than anything else.

Views? And please, let's not make this political. This is about haven proven non-congregated forms of learning can be done on a large scale. It is a form of evolution.

Couple things:

1.) You're ignoring one of the issues with not opening schools, and that's the millions of households that don't have someone free that can stay home with the kids. For the health of the kids, most areas aren't ready to go back to school yet... but I'm also pretty worried how a lot of families are going to deal with potentially an entire year of keeping the kids home if they're both normally working to get by. It's already been tough for some of them to get through the normal summers, and it's not going to get better. That's pretty scary for a lot of folks, and is one of the reasons so many are pushing to open, even with the health risks associated. One way to keep kids out of school without majorly impacting these families would be to fund a temporary unemployment program specifically helping one parent to stay home while schools are closed. That's starting to go down the political route though, so I won't go further with that... just keep in mind there's a potential financial burden that doesn't affect all families equally.

2.) I'm not sure why you'd think you'd be entitled to a refund on taxes. If they're remote teaching, they still need to pay the teachers. The buildings do still need upkeep, even less inhabited. Yeah they'll save on energy use, but I think you'd be surprised how little variable costs there are... most of the costs are still going to be incurred whether the building is used this year or not.

3.) I also disagree with the pandemic proving remote learning can be done. It's FAR too early to know if this year's crop of students are at the same level they'd be if they were at school. This is going to vary wildly based on how well each school district handled it, how each teacher kept up with it, and how each parent followed up with it. I have no doubt that with time and proper planning/research it coudl work, but not the way it was sprung on us like this. We can't claim it worked when we're still in the thick of it... that doesn't even make sense. We can't possibly know at this point

 

[Kaido]

I think one of the kids only had a call with their teacher twice, and it wasn't a lesson, but rather a "how is everyone doing?" sort of thing. I'm not really sure how the math lessons worked... or if there were lessons at all.

Growing up, I had undiagnosed ADHD, and alternated my time between "staring out the window" & just being really frustrated because I didn't learn like the other kids. Things didn't click educationally for me until the middle of college, which is when I took a different approach to learning & flipped my results from mostly D's & F's to almost straight A's across the board.

I don't want to say this the wrong way, but I don't know how much I really learned from grade school. I basically have mild dyscalculia & can't do math without writing it down or using a calculator, I remember like zero history, no grammar rules, my handwriting is terrible, etc. I think a big part of school is simply crowd control...having a place for the children to go where they're not getting in trouble at home or on the streets, and giving the parents a chance to go to work & keep the economy moving.

I do think school is incredibly valuable, of course. You do learn stuff, and you learn how to socially interact with other kids & how to deal with various situation. But for me, learning-wise, man did I miss out on a bunch of information simply because I was a space cadet (i.e. off in la-la land, or just constantly struggling with simple things) throughout most of it, lol. So I don't know how much of an actual loss it is with kids not learning as well as they should have, vs. just being exposed to things on a regular basis, because my learning experience growing up was pretty poor simply because I didn't learn in the same way as everyone else & didn't know how to study properly, but I turned out alright, I think! Haha.

Plus, school is kind of slanted towards the middle of the crowd. The bright kids zip through it & the kids who struggle have to really work to keep up. So doing it at home is kind of a hit or miss experience based on how a particular child is & how invested the parents are in helping out. My SIL ended up doing homeschooling for her kids & has switched them over to full-time homeschooling post-lockdown just to keep them on track, and they pretty much finish a whole day's work in like two hours lol. I suspect personalized attention & working at each kid's individual acquisition speed per subject has a LOT to do with how much progress they make on a daily basis, which unfortunately isn't available when you're in a class with 20 or 30 kids!

As our technology grows (especially big data & AI type of stuff), I'm really curious to see what the statistics on learning are & what actually has effective impacts in personal education. Like, there was a guy who wired up his house with cameras & mics about a decade ago to track language development in his child, and then they analyzed the data to get more information on how things really worked:

Father Records Son's Language Development with Video, Audio

A recent study utilizing sophisticated data-crunching techniques is shedding light on how care-givers influence the way babies learn to talk.

www.wsj.com

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Couple things:

1.) You're ignoring one of the issues with not opening schools, and that's the millions of households that don't have someone free that can stay home with the kids. For the health of the kids, most areas aren't ready to go back to school yet... but I'm also pretty worried how a lot of families are going to deal with potentially an entire year of keeping the kids home if they're both normally working to get by. It's already been tough for some of them to get through the normal summers, and it's not going to get better. That's pretty scary for a lot of folks, and is one of the reasons so many are pushing to open, even with the health risks associated. One way to keep kids out of school without majorly impacting these families would be to fund a temporary unemployment program specifically helping one parent to stay home while schools are closed. That's starting to go down the political route though, so I won't go further with that... just keep in mind there's a potential financial burden that doesn't affect all families equally.

2.) I'm not sure why you'd think you'd be entitled to a refund on taxes. If they're remote teaching, they still need to pay the teachers. The buildings do still need upkeep, even less inhabited. Yeah they'll save on energy use, but I think you'd be surprised how little variable costs there are... most of the costs are still going to be incurred whether the building is used this year or not.

3.) I also disagree with the pandemic proving remote learning can be done. It's FAR too early to know if this year's crop of students are at the same level they'd be if they were at school. This is going to vary wildly based on how well each school district handled it, how each teacher kept up with it, and how each parent followed up with it. I have no doubt that with time and proper planning/research it coudl work, but not the way it was sprung on us like this. We can't claim it worked when we're still in the thick of it... that doesn't even make sense. We can't possibly know at this point

1a.) I wasn't ignoring anything. I felt the burden in the home was already there, but someone pointed out their situation was they entered into a latchkey condition instead--meaning leaving children alone, unattended, or with someone's grandparents. The idea was if the household was already burden with a parental figure being home to tend to their displaced kids then they can use that burden for a formal at-home learning setup. It is a burden either way, choices on which to be burden by is in the parent's hands.

2a.) I would think that the costs involved in per pupil measurement would drop when capital expenditures in building schools, transporting by buses, supplying meals diminishes as the student population in out of home attendance drops. BTW, I was the first advocate for home schooling households to get their portion of annual property taxes going to education to be refunded if they are picking up the costs. But I seriously doubt the costs to the educational system of home schooling is anywhere near that of in classroom instruction. I could be ignorant but I also haven't researched the numbers (even if anything is published on it).

3a.) I wouldn't say the pandemic proved anything solidly, but it sure as heck made for a nice experiment that was thrust upon parents. So, if these households cannot be success under a homeschooling program than this year they can considered their children's education a failure. And this is exactly what some schools and parents believe because a rigid program wasn't available early on as this was a pandemic that kicked in the door and said, "Classroom was the living room." But you have to adapt or ?

 

[Aikouka]

Growing up, I had undiagnosed ADHD, and alternated my time between "staring out the window" & just being really frustrated because I didn't learn like the other kids. Things didn't click educationally for me until the middle of college, which is when I took a different approach to learning & flipped my results from mostly D's & F's to almost straight A's across the board.

I don't want to say this the wrong way, but I don't know how much I really learned from grade school. I basically have mild dyscalculia & can't do math without writing it down or using a calculator, I remember like zero history, no grammar rules, my handwriting is terrible, etc. I think a big part of school is simply crowd control...having a place for the children to go where they're not getting in trouble at home or on the streets, and giving the parents a chance to go to work & keep the economy moving.

It sounds like you really needed some assisted learning or -- and I know this gets taken negatively by most -- special education. On that note, I think we do apply a bit too negative of a viewpoint to special education. The idea is to help kids that have problems learning, which can be mental issues, or just learning difficulties. Although, funding for these programs can be sparse. My little brother is mentally challenged, and he had to attend a different school district than the rest of us due to our district having no facilities to support special education students. (We did have assisted learning though.)

I do think that school serves as a bit of a baby sitter at time, and to some degree, so do extra-curricular activities. Some schools even have after-school programs, which literally serve as services to watch the kids. This probably stems a lot from our society though as we've gone more from producers to consumers over the past century or so. (Wisecrack made a good video on this recently where they talked about the shift in advertisement over the years.) We're in a situation where single-worker households aren't common unless one worker is a high performer or certain sacrifices are made.

I also wonder if children have far too few responsibilities these days. Honestly, looking back on my own childhood, I wish that I would've had more as I do think that the lack of responsibility enforcing structure lead to an overall stunted growth that I've had to overcome. Challenges, adversity and responsibility are aspects in life that allow us to learn, evolve and grow, but when children aren't given these opportunities, they wallow in the ignorance of youth. I think some take this as meaning kids can't have any fun, but that's certainly NOT the idea. Of course, there will be some kids that don't need this as much as others, and then you get those that flounder in college due to the lack of structure.

I do think school is incredibly valuable, of course. You do learn stuff, and you learn how to socially interact with other kids & how to deal with various situation. But for me, learning-wise, man did I miss out on a bunch of information simply because I was a space cadet (i.e. off in la-la land, or just constantly struggling with simple things) throughout most of it, lol. So I don't know how much of an actual loss it is with kids not learning as well as they should have, vs. just being exposed to things on a regular basis, because my learning experience growing up was pretty poor simply because I didn't learn in the same way as everyone else & didn't know how to study properly, but I turned out alright, I think! Haha.

Honestly, I'm probably a bit more disenfranchised with school than you are. My biggest problem is that with the push for college preparatory education, I think schools often fail at teaching skills that are life preparatory. I've brought this one up before, but how many kids graduating from high school can solve this problem: "If you buy a game console for $400 on a credit card with a 24% APR and only make the minimum payments of $25 a month, how long would it take to pay it off?" I'd be fine if someone couldn't solve that in their head (but could explain it) since it requires compounding the interest, but I think that's far more important than being able to solve an integral. (To be honest, I'd just use Excel to solve it.)

Plus, school is kind of slanted towards the middle of the crowd. The bright kids zip through it & the kids who struggle have to really work to keep up. So doing it at home is kind of a hit or miss experience based on how a particular child is & how invested the parents are in helping out.

Yeah, I mentioned similar sentiments above. Schools tend to be more effective with good educators with a low student-to-educator ratio, because the teachers can afford to put more effort into each student.

My SIL ended up doing homeschooling for her kids & has switched them over to full-time homeschooling post-lockdown just to keep them on track, and they pretty much finish a whole day's work in like two hours lol. I suspect personalized attention & working at each kid's individual acquisition speed per subject has a LOT to do with how much progress they make on a daily basis, which unfortunately isn't available when you're in a class with 20 or 30 kids!

I'm still kind of mixed as to whether the difference in time spent truly deems one as an inferior method. One thing that came to mind a while ago is that homeschooling often means the lack of group activities, or even worse, curricula that may not be possible at home (wood shop, metal shop, athletics, etc.) I think it also depends on how well the parent/teacher can actually teach as well as how well they can pick up on deficiencies in the child's learning. Along those lines, I think I've spotted a few areas that need work, and given that I've tutored courses in college, I'm used to dealing with questions and leading people to answers. However, I'm not teaching anyone because I'm typically at work.

As our technology grows (especially big data & AI type of stuff), I'm really curious to see what the statistics on learning are & what actually has effective impacts in personal education.

It seems like the most effective course would be using computers to aid in pinpointing learning methods for individual kids. Given that the lessons tend to be presented through sites/apps, it would be interesting if they switch around the learning method randomly (for a little bit) to see how the student performs with each one.

 

[Kaido]

It sounds like you really needed some assisted learning or -- and I know this gets taken negatively by most -- special education. On that note, I think we do apply a bit too negative of a viewpoint to special education. The idea is to help kids that have problems learning, which can be mental issues, or just learning difficulties. Although, funding for these programs can be sparse. My little brother is mentally challenged, and he had to attend a different school district than the rest of us due to our district having no facilities to support special education students. (We did have assisted learning though.)

I do think that school serves as a bit of a baby sitter at time, and to some degree, so do extra-curricular activities. Some schools even have after-school programs, which literally serve as services to watch the kids. This probably stems a lot from our society though as we've gone more from producers to consumers over the past century or so. (Wisecrack made a good video on this recently where they talked about the shift in advertisement over the years.) We're in a situation where single-worker households aren't common unless one worker is a high performer or certain sacrifices are made.

I also wonder if children have far too few responsibilities these days. Honestly, looking back on my own childhood, I wish that I would've had more as I do think that the lack of responsibility enforcing structure lead to an overall stunted growth that I've had to overcome. Challenges, adversity and responsibility are aspects in life that allow us to learn, evolve and grow, but when children aren't given these opportunities, they wallow in the ignorance of youth. I think some take this as meaning kids can't have any fun, but that's certainly NOT the idea. Of course, there will be some kids that don't need this as much as others, and then you get those that flounder in college due to the lack of structure.

Honestly, I'm probably a bit more disenfranchised with school than you are. My biggest problem is that with the push for college preparatory education, I think schools often fail at teaching skills that are life preparatory. I've brought this one up before, but how many kids graduating from high school can solve this problem: "If you buy a game console for $400 on a credit card with a 24% APR and only make the minimum payments of $25 a month, how long would it take to pay it off?" I'd be fine if someone couldn't solve that in their head (but could explain it) since it requires compounding the interest, but I think that's far more important than being able to solve an integral. (To be honest, I'd just use Excel to solve it.)

Yeah, I mentioned similar sentiments above. Schools tend to be more effective with good educators with a low student-to-educator ratio, because the teachers can afford to put more effort into each student.

I'm still kind of mixed as to whether the difference in time spent truly deems one as an inferior method. One thing that came to mind a while ago is that homeschooling often means the lack of group activities, or even worse, curricula that may not be possible at home (wood shop, metal shop, athletics, etc.) I think it also depends on how well the parent/teacher can actually teach as well as how well they can pick up on deficiencies in the child's learning. Along those lines, I think I've spotted a few areas that need work, and given that I've tutored courses in college, I'm used to dealing with questions and leading people to answers. However, I'm not teaching anyone because I'm typically at work.

It seems like the most effective course would be using computers to aid in pinpointing learning methods for individual kids. Given that the lessons tend to be presented through sites/apps, it would be interesting if they switch around the learning method randomly (for a little bit) to see how the student performs with each one.

Yeah, unfortunately ADHD wasn't really a thing back when I was growing up. And even today, they still just throw a lot of medication at kids. Granted, there are better programs & teaching methodologies available now, but In an ideal world, there would be a teacher for like every 8 or 10 kids...each teacher could assist each kid at their own personal learning pace & help them really get the concepts. I have no idea how I graduated high school. I had a 1.9 GPA. Just awful lol. Things didn't "click" for me until a couple years into college...but fortunately, this planet is very friendly to late bloomers, haha!

I am definitely a fan of the idea of teaching kids more life skills. I took a Home Ec class in school because that's where the girls were & actually ended up loving the class lol. I wish I had had the opportunity to take a shop class & learn how to work with machines & on cars & stuff, but fortunately Youtube is great these days! But yeah, moving out was rough...I had no idea how to budget, or that so many insurances were required, or that everything cost money & you had nothing in your first apartment & you just had to wait for the paychecks to come in lol. A modern "Game of Life" simulator would be a pretty cool tool to use in school to help kids make better decisions in life.

I've heard that some other countries treat teaching as a serious profession & they get paid accordingly...it'd be amazing to see that kind of investment here in the states & have a higher teacher-to-student ratio to improve outcomes, along with better career counseling & job placement systems. Pursuing your dreams is nice & all, but in the real world, you gotta pay bills, and the world will pretty much only pay you what it thinks you're worth, so unless you get specific, get educated, and get to work, your chances of success outside of that are pretty slim if your parents aren't rich. Not saying it can't be done, but simply getting an Associate's degree enables you to make one million dollars more in the course of your lifetime than a high school graduate would get.

Big topic. Definitely interested to see more statistics & information as it comes out, and very curious to see how things play out with COVID & education, especially with learning at home. I'm very interested to see how effective it is across the board!

 

[WelshBloke]

Does the 1-working parent household exist anywhere in the world anymore?

I mean even in the likes of Europe?

We sort of do. The wife is self employed and works from home so she works during the school day.

 

[purbeast0]

My son started virtual kindergarten on Monday and I don't see how this is going to work. Kids his age simply are not supposed to be sitting down for hours straight especially behind a computer. He has to go from 9-11:30 then a 90 minute break for lunch/recess, then from 1-3:15. The first day they let kids go at 2:15 and I'm pretty sure it's because the kids were ready to get off. Yesterday was a bit better but he gets bored and loses focus after like an hour. I hope it gets better but I don't have high hopes after the first 2 days.

During the recess time my son and 4 other kids in kindergarten on our street all meet up and play outside at the court down the street. My wife has taken him down there the past 2 days and all the parents are saying the same thing about the experience. So it's not just our son. At least we have that time though where he can socialize and act like a normal kindergarten kid every day, at least while the weather is warmer.

 

[Exterous]

Off to a rocky start for my wife. Lots of extra duties assigned, half the prep hours and marginal quantities of supplies. Another side effect - the mask muffles her voice enough that, as a language teacher, she basically spends all day shouting. Microphone and speaker are on their way from an Amazon warehouse which brings us up to about $200 out of pocket in extra supplies than normal for us in less than two weeks of school. (Better masks, better cleaning cloths because the ones supplied just leave surfaces damp - like the desk where students put paper..., more hand sanitizer because no way the little bottle she was given will last until the school supplied replacement is given etc)