Kerry's IQ Likely Lower Than Bush's

Garuda

Banned
Jun 15, 2004
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10...campaign/24points.html

POLITICAL POINTS

Secret Weapon for Bush?
By JOHN TIERNEY
Published: October 24, 2004



Secret Weapon

For Bush?



To Bush-bashers, it may be the most infuriating revelation yet from the military records of the two presidential candidates: the young George W. Bush probably had a higher I.Q. than did the young John Kerry.



That, at least, is the conclusion of Steve Sailer, a conservative columnist at the Web magazine Vdare.com and a veteran student of presidential I.Q.'s. During the last presidential campaign Mr. Sailer estimated from Mr. Bush's SAT score (1206) that his I.Q. was in the mid-120's, about 10 points lower than Al Gore's.



Mr. Kerry's SAT score is not known, but now Mr. Sailer has done a comparison of the intelligence tests in the candidates' military records. They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.



Mr. Bush's score on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test at age 22 again suggests that his I.Q was the mid-120's, putting Mr. Bush in about the 95th percentile of the population, according to Mr. Sailer. Mr. Kerry's I.Q. was about 120, in the 91st percentile, according to Mr. Sailer's extrapolation of his score at age 22 on the Navy Officer Qualification Test.



Linda Gottfredson, an I.Q. expert at the University of Delaware, called it a creditable analysis said she was not surprised at the results or that so many people had assumed that Mr. Kerry was smarter. "People will often be misled into thinking someone is brighter if he says something complicated they can't understand," Professor Gottfredson said.



Many Americans still believe a report that began circulating on the Internet three years ago, and was quoted in "Doonesbury," that Mr. Bush's I.Q. was 91, the lowest of any modern American president. But that report from the non-existent Lovenstein Institute turned out to be a hoax.



You might expect Kerry campaign officials, who have worried that their candidate's intellectual image turns off voters, to quickly rush out a commercial trumpeting these new results, but for some reason they seem to be resisting the temptation.



Upon hearing of their candidate's score, Michael Meehan, a spokesman for the senator, said merely: "The true test is not where you start out in life, but what you do with those God-given talents. John Kerry's 40 years of public service puts him in the top percentile on that measure."

The original analysis was done by IQ expert Steve Sailer:

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

Steve Sailer is not a partisan pro-Bush hack, which anyone can confirm by reading his blog: http://www.isteve.com/
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.
Not convinced.


P.S. Thanks for the story heartsurgeon.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
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91
For those of you that are discounting this out-of-hand, what you are saying ultimately is that there could never be a genius that has a stutter.

A stutter would show one of the highest levels of in-articulation, therefore someone with a stutter could never possess intelligence.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
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it's not the number that counts, until you get into the really low numbers. it's application that counts.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Originally posted by: Squisher
For those of you that are discounting this out-of-hand, what you are saying ultimately is that there could never be a genius that has a stutter.

That is a nice fat leap of logic. Not the kind of thing appreciated on standardized tests....
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
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It was probably forged just like HIS ENTRANCE EXAMs .. why did he fail the entrance exams for the National Guard then?

Was it because he was a CHEERLEADER :p :p
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.
Not convinced.


P.S. Thanks for the story heartsurgeon.
Yeah I'm feeling the same way. I immediately discredit findings I disagree with.

This is Heartsurgeon?

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Quote

Linda Gottfredson, an I.Q. expert at the University of Delaware, called it a creditable analysis said she was not surprised at the results or that so many people had assumed that Mr. Kerry was smarter. "People will often be misled into thinking someone is brighter if he says something complicated they can't understand," Professor Gottfredson said.

end quote

I guess a whole bunch of the liberals on this forum that rave about how smart Kerry is just can't understand what he is talking about. Why am I not surprised? Thus the term Dim!
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
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Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



Are you saying that he was not a DRUNK and was not convicted of drunk driving and that his children are not close to be full fledged alcoholics themselves?

Didn't he admit to being a hardcore alcoholic and that THE LORD has now changed all of that for him?
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



Are you saying that he was not a DRUNK and was not convicted of drunk driving and that his children are not close to be full fledged alcoholics themselves?

Didn't he admit to being a hardcore alcoholic and that THE LORD has now changed all of that for him?

See, another difference between Republicans and Dimocrats. We know the difference between alcohol and cocaine! Dims think they are the same, just one is dehydrated.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
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IQ testing is not an accurate measurement of intelligence. This analysis uses non-standard tests which make it even more inaccurate. Furthermore, the analysis is biased, done by a person who is admittedly on Bush's side.

"That, at least, is the conclusion of Steve Sailer, a conservative columnist at the Web magazine Vdare.com and a veteran student of presidential I.Q.'s."

My tested IQ is 135. Vote for me. This is a ludicrous argument from the outset.

Bush's gaffes and misquotes, his inability to articulate a clear thought can be compared with Kerry's propensity to delve too deeply into issues. Bush's simplistic (sometimes dangerously so) answers make Bush appear resolute when in truth he is simply intellectually lazy.

I prefer Kerry. A thoughtful person who doesn't receive instructions directly from God. We all witnessed the work of zealots who converse directly with God on September 11 and again on March 19, 2003. Those instances should be enough to convince anyone. Unless you're a zealot too.



 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
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Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



Are you saying that he was not a DRUNK and was not convicted of drunk driving and that his children are not close to be full fledged alcoholics themselves?

Didn't he admit to being a hardcore alcoholic and that THE LORD has now changed all of that for him?
The fact that Bush's daughters are close to being alcoholics make Bush an alcholic too. Does that mean that Dick Cheney is a lesbian? :)
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Condor
We really need to run electricity into that cave so you Dims can get some light!

:cookie: Now please kindly go reunite with your bridge. I hear she gets lonly when you leave to come here and post. Perhaps you should see if the cable company would run a line under the bridge so you don't ever have to leave?
 

Hossenfeffer

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
7,462
1
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



Are you saying that he was not a DRUNK and was not convicted of drunk driving and that his children are not close to be full fledged alcoholics themselves?

Didn't he admit to being a hardcore alcoholic and that THE LORD has now changed all of that for him?
The fact that Bush's daughters are close to being alcoholics make Bush an alcholic too. Does that mean that Dick Cheney is a lesbian? :)
Well, he is into girls ;)
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: her209
Only one problem, coccaine and alcohol does wonders for your brain.

Always the unproven slur against Bush. After the millions spent by the Dimocratic party trying to find the drug link in Bush's past, you would think they would have something more than character assignation to work with.



Are you saying that he was not a DRUNK and was not convicted of drunk driving and that his children are not close to be full fledged alcoholics themselves?

Didn't he admit to being a hardcore alcoholic and that THE LORD has now changed all of that for him?
The fact that Bush's daughters are close to being alcoholics make Bush an alcholic too. Does that mean that Dick Cheney is a lesbian? :)


It might :D

But nobody can discount the bad effect that alcoholic parents have on their children.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: Condor
We really need to run electricity into that cave so you Dims can get some light!

:cookie: Now please kindly go reunite with your bridge. I hear she gets lonly when you leave to come here and post. Perhaps you should see if the cable company would run a line under the bridge so you don't ever have to leave?

Didn't understand that. Must be the echo in the cave!

 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Infohawk
They are not formal I.Q. tests, but Mr. Sailer says they are similar enough to make reasonable extrapolations.
Not convinced.


P.S. Thanks for the story heartsurgeon.

Like I've said before, that must be a very dark cave!

Yep, you'll notice it's a recurring theme.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
We really need to run electricity into that cave so you Dims can get some light!

Don't shine a light in the cave, you might wake Georgie.

Some light on this subject from someone with firsthand knowledge of Bush's intellect, one of his Harvard professors, Yoshi Tsurumi, originally appearing in Salon.com.


"His former Harvard Business School professor recalls George W. Bush not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar.

For 25 years, Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at
Harvard Business School, was content with his green-card status as a
permanent legal resident of the United States. But Bush's ascension to the
presidency in 2001 prompted the Japanese native to secure his American
citizenship. The reason: to be able to speak out with the full authority of
citizenship about why he believes Bush lacks the character and intellect to
lead the world's oldest and most powerful democracy.

"I don't remember all the students in detail unless I'm prompted by
something," Tsurumi said in a telephone interview Wednesday. "But I always remember two types of students. One is the very excellent student, the type as a professor you feel honored to be working with. Someone with strong social values, compassion and intellect - the very rare person you never forget. And then you remember students like George Bush, those who are totally the opposite."

The future president was one of 85 first-year MBA students in Tsurumi's
macroeconomic policies and international business class in the fall of 1973
and spring of 1974. Tsurumi was a visiting associate professor at Harvard
Business School from January 1972 to August 1976; today, he is a professor of international business at Baruch College in New York.

Trading as usual on his father's connections, Bush entered Harvard in
1973 for a two-year program. He'd just come off what George H.W. Bush had once called his eldest son's "nomadic years" - partying, drifting from job to job, working on political campaigns in Florida and Alabama and, most
famously, apparently not showing up for duty in the Alabama National Guard.

Harvard Business School's rigorous teaching methods, in which the
professor interacts aggressively with students, and students are encouraged to challenge each other sharply, offered important insights into Bush, Tsurumi said. In observing students' in-class performances, "you develop pretty good ideas about what are their weaknesses and strengths in terms of thinking, analysis, their prejudices, their backgrounds and other things that students reveal," he said.

One of Tsurumi's standout students was Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., now the seventh-ranking member of the House Republican leadership. "I typed him as a conservative Republican with a conscience," Tsurumi said. "He never confused his own ideology with economics, and he didn't try to hide his ignorance of a subject in mumbo jumbo. He was what I call a principled conservative." (Though clearly a partisan one. On Wednesday, Cox called for a congressional investigation of the validity of documents that CBS News obtained for a story questioning Bush's attendance at Guard duty in Alabama.)

Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi
said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that." A White House spokeswoman did not return a phone call seeking comment.

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on
whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people - because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"

If Cox had been in the same class, Tsurumi said, "I could have asked him to challenge that and he would have demolished it. Not personally or
emotionally, but intellectually."

Bush once sneered at Tsurumi for showing the film "The Grapes of Wrath," based on John Steinbeck's novel of the Depression. "We were in a discussion of the New Deal, and he called Franklin Roosevelt's policies 'socialism.' He denounced labor unions, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Medicare, Social Security, you name it. He denounced the civil rights movement as socialism. To him, socialism and communism were the same thing. And when challenged to explain his prejudice, he could not defend his argument, either ideologically, polemically or academically."

Students who challenged and embarrassed Bush in class would then become the subject of a whispering campaign by him, Tsurumi said. "In class, he couldn't challenge them. But after class, he sometimes came up to me in the hallway and started bad-mouthing those students who had challenged him. He would complain that someone was drinking too much. It was innuendo and lies. So that's how I knew, behind his smile and his smirk, that he was a very insecure, cunning and vengeful guy."

Many of Tsurumi's students came from well-connected or wealthy families, but good manners prevented them from boasting about it, the professor said. But Bush seemed unabashed about the connections that had brought him to Harvard. "The other children of the rich and famous were at least well bred to the point of realizing universal values and standards of behavior," Tsurumi said. But Bush sometimes came late to class and often sat in the back row of the theater-like classroom, wearing a bomber jacket from the Texas Air National Guard and spitting chewing tobacco into a cup.

"At first, I wondered, 'Who is this George Bush?' It's a very common
name and I didn't know his background. And he was such a bad student that I asked him once how he got in. He said, 'My dad has good friends.'" Bush scored in the lowest 10 percent of the class.

The Vietnam War was still roiling campuses and Harvard was no exception. Bush expressed strong support for the war but admitted to Tsurumi that he'd gotten a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard through his father's connections.

"I used to chat up a number of students when we were walking back to
class," Tsurumi said. "Here was Bush, wearing a Texas Guard bomber jacket, and the draft was the No. 1 topic in those days. And I said, 'George, what did you do with the draft?' He said, 'Well, I got into the Texas Air National Guard.' And I said, 'Lucky you. I understand there is a long waiting list for it. How'd you get in?' When he told me, he didn't seem
ashamed or embarrassed. He thought he was entitled to all kinds of
privileges and special deals. He was not the only one trying to twist all
their connections to avoid Vietnam. But then, he was fanatically for the
war."

Tsurumi told Bush that someone who avoided a draft while supporting a
war in which others were dying was a hypocrite. "He realized he was caught, showed his famous smirk and huffed off."

Tsurumi's conclusion: Bush is not as dumb as his detractors allege. "He
was just badly brought up, with no discipline, and no compassion," he said.

In recent days, Tsurumi has told his story to various print and
television outlets and appears in Kitty Kelley's exposé "The Family: The
Real Story of the Bush Dynasty." He said other professors and students at the business school from that time share his recollections but are afraid to come forward, fearing ostracism or retribution. And why is Tsurumi speaking up now? Because with the ongoing bloodshed in Iraq and Osama bin Laden still on the loose - not to mention a federal deficit ballooning out of control - the stakes are too high to remain silent. "Obviously, I don't think he is the best person" to be running the country, he said. "I wanted to explain why."