Kerry just lost a vote. (Sportsmans new opinion on the election)

[burnedout]

National Match grade AR-15

Mookow, I'll try to take some pictures of my AR-15 HB match and link here in a few. She's sweet! A nail driver, by gawd.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: tss4
I have no idea what the dictionary definition is but I would define it as a semi-automatic rifle. I just don't see the need for them. The open supply of them does more harm than good. People like to say if you outlawed them, then only the crooks would have them and we would be less safe, but all you have to do is look across the atlantic to see that's not true.

Really? Look across the Pond at, say, England? They used to allow some private ownership of guns, and now they've moved to almost completely banning private ownership of guns, so it should be interesting to see what happened to their rates of crime, gun crime, assault, home invasion, etc. Basically, the types of crimes that pro-gun people in the USA say are prevented by private citizens owning guns. Let's type in "England "gun crimes"" into google and see what we find out, shall we? Oh wait, I've already done this before, so I'll just quote myself:

Originally posted by: Mookow
*cough* *cough* and *cough*

First page results from googling "England 'gun crimes'". England banned private ownership of pistols in 1997. The number of crimes committed with guns has gone up. But thats OK, because at least they have the knowledge that the thug pointing a pistol at them is committing an illegal act :roll:

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: burnedout

National Match grade AR-15

Mookow, I'll try to take some pictures of my AR-15 HB match and link here in a few. She's sweet! A nail driver, by gawd.

:thumbsup: People saying that all AR-15s are inaccurate is like a ricer claiming that all mustangs are slow because his Civic beat an 80's V6 Mustang with a stock engine and 24" spinners.

I'm currently deciding whether I want my CCW permit + Glock 30, or an AR-15 with mostly match grade parts. Decisions, decisions... 😀

 

[Mookow]

Oh, I would just like to add a request that people of either side of this issue should be able to agree to, namely to please limit the number of nested quotes in your posts. It only takes a second, and makes the thread much better.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: burnedout

National Match grade AR-15

Mookow, I'll try to take some pictures of my AR-15 HB match and link here in a few. She's sweet! A nail driver, by gawd.

:thumbsup: People saying that all AR-15s are inaccurate is like a ricer claiming that all mustangs are slow because his Civic beat an 80's V6 Mustang with a stock engine and 24" spinners.

I'm currently deciding whether I want my CCW permit + Glock 30, or an AR-15 with mostly match grade parts. Decisions, decisions... 😀

Don't forget the impending sunset of the AWB.🙂

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Mill
Lets get back to the meat and potatoes here. If the AWB sunsets, do you think Kerry will try to reinstate it if elected? That is my biggest fear.

Why would you fear a ban on assault weapons? They were designed to 'assualt' people, not for hunting.

Umm, they were? Any proof of that, or are you just repeating talking points you have heard? "Assault" weapons are just a rifle that looks scary. It will be the same caliber, ROF, and range as a regular rifle, but it has a scary looking stock, or it has a scary looking barrel. That's all there is to "assault" weapons. Believe me a dear hunting rifle is a lot more powerful than a little sissy carbine or many of the other "assault" weapons out. Again, how many times have you handled a rifle or an "assault" rifle? With that logic certain cars should be banned because they "look" fast. That why the AWB happened because the rifles looked scary. There's is no argument to the contrary because they were banned arbitrarily on looks and not on really any other criteria other than mag capacity(so you can just get pre-ban mags). Anyway, feel like qualifying your statements, or are you just trolling?

Actually i have heard this enough to make me think that most NRA people are complete morons, NO you stupid fvck it is not about the looks of it it is about the use of it, the weapons in question are totally useless unless you are in close combat. Get it?

I am sure you have listened to enough radio shows and read enough "green beret" magazines to know that they are good for anything else but you are still wrong.

These "assault rifles" lack accuracy and are good for one thing and one thing only, they are meant to kill slow moving creatures at close range, now which slow moving creatures at low range are you going to hunt?

Or is this because you are so damn scared that you need such a gun to be able to live in the US, if so, move to another country, we don't need them in Berlin.

The entire argument is stupid, the weapons in question SHOULD be banned.

Bad argument...

The main difference between assault weapons & other weapons is the color...

Show me an assault weapon & I'll show you a hunting/sporting use for it.

Assault weapons are evil & black.

Of course Germany has it's own ghosts to deal with, I guess part of the mechanism of dealing with your history that hasn't been bulldozed, rewritten, built over to hide it & lied about is to become a pacifist country.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Actually i have heard this enough to make me think that most NRA people are complete morons, NO you stupid fvck it is not about the looks of it it is about the use of it, the weapons in question are totally useless unless you are in close combat. Get it?

I am sure you have listened to enough radio shows and read enough "green beret" magazines to know that they are good for anything else but you are still wrong.

These "assault rifles" lack accuracy and are good for one thing and one thing only, they are meant to kill slow moving creatures at close range, now which slow moving creatures at low range are you going to hunt?

Or is this because you are so damn scared that you need such a gun to be able to live in the US, if so, move to another country, we don't need them in Berlin.

The entire argument is stupid, the weapons in question SHOULD be banned.

So I guess the running deer I took with my uncle's AR-15 was well inside "close combat"? Because, by "close combat", you must mean out to at least 213 yards, because that's what we later measured it to be, from where I was standing to the point of impact. And your definition of "slow moving" seems to include just about every animal on the North American continent aside from pronghorn antelope, because I can not think of anything much faster on the ground than a mature male whitetail (8pts 😀, but sort of small due to being from South Carolina 🙁 ) running for it's life. And for the record, I fired one shot, it was a fatal lung shot, and I had a 5 round magazine in the weapon at the time. Which makes it rather less lethal than the .308 my cousin was carrying around that morning.

Aside from that, you must have wonderfully accurate rifles in Germany if a National Match grade AR-15 is considered too inaccurate for sporting purposes. An AR-15 is one of the cheapest ways to build a brand new sub 1MOA rifle with widely available, cheap ammo. But quite frankly, for a "close combat" situation, I'd prefer the Mossberg I inherited from my grandfather that is sitting in my basement. 12 gauge pump, fits six shells in the tubular magazine (as long as they aren't 3"), and has a barrel just about 1/2" over 18 inches.

I decided to be honest with you, i have no idea WTF you are talking about, these are no hunting rifles, that is for sure. WTF cares what you can build out of it, spend your money on a good solid barrel hunting rifle and you are good to go, your stupid little ar15 will need a scope reset everytime you clean it.

What i am saying is that you need a good hunting rifle and a solid shotgun, you don't need a semi auto of either to hunt, anyone who does does not know what he is doing.

For deer i use a classic .30-06, any REAL hunter will.

Shooting an average S.C. deer with a normal .30-06 load is like taking a +P 45 ACP to a rabbit. You have to use a real light load if you are going to do so... however there are better, smaller diameter cartridges for the job. I happened to be on vacation with my uncle, he is a member of a private hunting club (with their own piece of land to hunt on), asked me if I wanted to go get some venison, I said "sure". I dont bring my guns around with me when I travel, so I had to borrow one of his. They were in short supply at the time, as my cousin Ben was also in town... he won the coin toss, he got to use the .308, I was given the AR-15.

I'll post more later when I get home

No you don't, christ, i have been doing this for a LONG time, you just have to put it where it kills, i use the same gun for bigger pray too and it works, what does not work is a smaller gauge shotgun (or any shotgun if you ask me) you aim where the back meets the neck.

Anyone who would even consider bringing an AR-15 (a close range weapon) on a hunting trip is a complete idiot in my book.

I use the same weight caliber for moose and for deer, if you KNOW how to hunt it doesn't matter, but i guess if you don't and just throw a shot and hope it hits it's different.

There is a difference between a hunter and a holiday honter.

So why would you have a problem with me using an AR-15, because you CAN"T have a problem with me using a .223 can you? I don't know what you are talking about by saying the AR-15 isn't accurate. The .223 in the AR-15 is very accurate... It is a lighter round that is a tad quieter, less flash, and a bit less recoil. IMO, for smaller deer and even most deer it is decent gun to use.

You are surely joking? A solid barrel .223 hunting rifle against an AR-15?

Oh the AR-15 is accurate enough for fully automatic close combat, but NOT for hunting.

IOW, it does what it was designed for and a hint is that it was not for hunting deer.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Mill
Lets get back to the meat and potatoes here. If the AWB sunsets, do you think Kerry will try to reinstate it if elected? That is my biggest fear.

Lets take a brief look at his voting record: draw your own conclusions

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: K1052
Don't forget the impending sunset of the AWB.🙂

That is precisely why I am considering getting an AR instead of the carry permit and pistol. If Kerry gets elected and the Democrats take control of either the House or the Senate, the AWB will almost certainly be back.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer


So why would you have a problem with me using an AR-15, because you CAN"T have a problem with me using a .223 can you? I don't know what you are talking about by saying the AR-15 isn't accurate. The .223 in the AR-15 is very accurate... It is a lighter round that is a tad quieter, less flash, and a bit less recoil. IMO, for smaller deer and even most deer it is decent gun to use.

You are surely joking? A solid barrel .223 hunting rifle against an AR-15?

Oh the AR-15 is accurate enough for fully automatic close combat, but NOT for hunting.

IOW, it does what it was designed for and a hint is that it was not for hunting deer.[/quote]


Yep, automatic close quarters combat...

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Mill
Lets get back to the meat and potatoes here. If the AWB sunsets, do you think Kerry will try to reinstate it if elected? That is my biggest fear.

Why would you fear a ban on assault weapons? They were designed to 'assualt' people, not for hunting.

Umm, they were? Any proof of that, or are you just repeating talking points you have heard? "Assault" weapons are just a rifle that looks scary. It will be the same caliber, ROF, and range as a regular rifle, but it has a scary looking stock, or it has a scary looking barrel. That's all there is to "assault" weapons. Believe me a dear hunting rifle is a lot more powerful than a little sissy carbine or many of the other "assault" weapons out. Again, how many times have you handled a rifle or an "assault" rifle? With that logic certain cars should be banned because they "look" fast. That why the AWB happened because the rifles looked scary. There's is no argument to the contrary because they were banned arbitrarily on looks and not on really any other criteria other than mag capacity(so you can just get pre-ban mags). Anyway, feel like qualifying your statements, or are you just trolling?

Actually i have heard this enough to make me think that most NRA people are complete morons, NO you stupid fvck it is not about the looks of it it is about the use of it, the weapons in question are totally useless unless you are in close combat. Get it?

I am sure you have listened to enough radio shows and read enough "green beret" magazines to know that they are good for anything else but you are still wrong.

These "assault rifles" lack accuracy and are good for one thing and one thing only, they are meant to kill slow moving creatures at close range, now which slow moving creatures at low range are you going to hunt?

Or is this because you are so damn scared that you need such a gun to be able to live in the US, if so, move to another country, we don't need them in Berlin.

The entire argument is stupid, the weapons in question SHOULD be banned.

Bad argument...

The main difference between assault weapons & other weapons is the color...

Show me an assault weapon & I'll show you a hunting/sporting use for it.

Assault weapons are evil & black.

Of course Germany has it's own ghosts to deal with, I guess part of the mechanism of dealing with your history that hasn't been bulldozed, rewritten, built over to hide it & lied about is to become a pacifist country.

No, it isn't, take your assault weapon, can you detach the barrel? Have you checked out WHY hunting rifles have a solid chamber that is one piece with the barrel, accuracy never crosses you mind?

The thing is, it is not the material, it is not anything else but accuaracy and why you state this things regarding germany, i have no idea, we are well aware of our history, and I, as a german jew coming from Finland probably know more than you .

Sooo, can it when it comes to that. thanx.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Actually i have heard this enough to make me think that most NRA people are complete morons, NO you stupid fvck it is not about the looks of it it is about the use of it, the weapons in question are totally useless unless you are in close combat. Get it?

I am sure you have listened to enough radio shows and read enough "green beret" magazines to know that they are good for anything else but you are still wrong.

These "assault rifles" lack accuracy and are good for one thing and one thing only, they are meant to kill slow moving creatures at close range, now which slow moving creatures at low range are you going to hunt?

Or is this because you are so damn scared that you need such a gun to be able to live in the US, if so, move to another country, we don't need them in Berlin.

The entire argument is stupid, the weapons in question SHOULD be banned.

So I guess the running deer I took with my uncle's AR-15 was well inside "close combat"? Because, by "close combat", you must mean out to at least 213 yards, because that's what we later measured it to be, from where I was standing to the point of impact. And your definition of "slow moving" seems to include just about every animal on the North American continent aside from pronghorn antelope, because I can not think of anything much faster on the ground than a mature male whitetail (8pts 😀, but sort of small due to being from South Carolina 🙁 ) running for it's life. And for the record, I fired one shot, it was a fatal lung shot, and I had a 5 round magazine in the weapon at the time. Which makes it rather less lethal than the .308 my cousin was carrying around that morning.

Aside from that, you must have wonderfully accurate rifles in Germany if a National Match grade AR-15 is considered too inaccurate for sporting purposes. An AR-15 is one of the cheapest ways to build a brand new sub 1MOA rifle with widely available, cheap ammo. But quite frankly, for a "close combat" situation, I'd prefer the Mossberg I inherited from my grandfather that is sitting in my basement. 12 gauge pump, fits six shells in the tubular magazine (as long as they aren't 3"), and has a barrel just about 1/2" over 18 inches.

I decided to be honest with you, i have no idea WTF you are talking about, these are no hunting rifles, that is for sure. WTF cares what you can build out of it, spend your money on a good solid barrel hunting rifle and you are good to go, your stupid little ar15 will need a scope reset everytime you clean it.

What i am saying is that you need a good hunting rifle and a solid shotgun, you don't need a semi auto of either to hunt, anyone who does does not know what he is doing.

For deer i use a classic .30-06, any REAL hunter will.

Shooting an average S.C. deer with a normal .30-06 load is like taking a +P 45 ACP to a rabbit. You have to use a real light load if you are going to do so... however there are better, smaller diameter cartridges for the job. I happened to be on vacation with my uncle, he is a member of a private hunting club (with their own piece of land to hunt on), asked me if I wanted to go get some venison, I said "sure". I dont bring my guns around with me when I travel, so I had to borrow one of his. They were in short supply at the time, as my cousin Ben was also in town... he won the coin toss, he got to use the .308, I was given the AR-15.

I'll post more later when I get home

No you don't, christ, i have been doing this for a LONG time, you just have to put it where it kills, i use the same gun for bigger pray too and it works, what does not work is a smaller gauge shotgun (or any shotgun if you ask me) you aim where the back meets the neck.

Anyone who would even consider bringing an AR-15 (a close range weapon) on a hunting trip is a complete idiot in my book.

I use the same weight caliber for moose and for deer, if you KNOW how to hunt it doesn't matter, but i guess if you don't and just throw a shot and hope it hits it's different.

There is a difference between a hunter and a holiday honter.

So why would you have a problem with me using an AR-15, because you CAN"T have a problem with me using a .223 can you? I don't know what you are talking about by saying the AR-15 isn't accurate. The .223 in the AR-15 is very accurate... It is a lighter round that is a tad quieter, less flash, and a bit less recoil. IMO, for smaller deer and even most deer it is decent gun to use.

You are surely joking? A solid barrel .223 hunting rifle against an AR-15?

Oh the AR-15 is accurate enough for fully automatic close combat, but NOT for hunting.

IOW, it does what it was designed for and a hint is that it was not for hunting deer.

Yep, automatic close quarters combat...

😕

This is no gun you own. It is no AR-15 and it has a solid chamber/barrel, what are you trying to do, prove my point? I need no help doing that, but thanx for the effort.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, it isn't, take your assault weapon, can you detach the barrel? Have you checked out WHY hunting rifles have a solid chamber that is one piece with the barrel, accuracy never crosses you mind?

The thing is, it is not the material, it is not anything else but accuaracy and why you state this things regarding germany, i have no idea, we are well aware of our history, and I, as a german jew coming from Finland probably know more than you .

Sooo, can it when it comes to that. thanx.

Again..

 

[Pliablemoose]

I think my Jewish Pole relatives would have appreciated a weapon or 2.

Accurizing AR15's is a cult in the US, you don't know what you're talking about...

AR15.com

Text
Enjoy

(my apologies JokerSmoker)

 

[burnedout]

Here she is:

Pic 1

Pic 2 With handguards off. Note the heavy barrel.

Pic 3 Serial number is scratched out in the photo for obvious reasons.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, it isn't, take your assault weapon, can you detach the barrel? Have you checked out WHY hunting rifles have a solid chamber that is one piece with the barrel, accuracy never crosses you mind?

The thing is, it is not the material, it is not anything else but accuaracy and why you state this things regarding germany, i have no idea, we are well aware of our history, and I, as a german jew coming from Finland probably know more than you .

Sooo, can it when it comes to that. thanx.

Again..

That is STILL no AR-15 and the support is there for a reason.

Get this you numbnuts, you need a rifle to hunt, a precision rifle, what you do NOT need is a semi auto rifle, i repeat you do NOT need a semi auto rifle, when you are done with reaiming the deer is long gone, you do NOT need a semi auto rifle and you DEFININTELY do not need a full auto rifle to hunt.

What you need is a simple accurate hunting rifle, no AR-15 no AR-22 either, you need a full caliber fully accurate weapon.

If any of you were real hunters i wouldn't have to tell you this.

I have laid down plenty of deer and moose with my 30-06 manual.

You will most likely miss or shoot them whene the meat goes to waste if you try it.

If you think the most important thing is to kill the animal no matter what, then use your semi autos or shotguns, if not, use a proper weapon, aim, fire and take the meat home.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: burnedout
Here she is:

Pic 1

Pic 2 With handguards off. Note the heavy barrel.

Pic 3 Serial number is scratched out in the photo for obvious reasons.

I give up, if that is what you use for hunting, i give up.

I have an ak5D here, so what? I would never be stupid enough to use that for hunting.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, it isn't, take your assault weapon, can you detach the barrel? Have you checked out WHY hunting rifles have a solid chamber that is one piece with the barrel, accuracy never crosses you mind?

The thing is, it is not the material, it is not anything else but accuaracy and why you state this things regarding germany, i have no idea, we are well aware of our history, and I, as a german jew coming from Finland probably know more than you .

Sooo, can it when it comes to that. thanx.

Again..

That is STILL no AR-15 and the support is there for a reason.

Get this you numbnuts, you need a rifle to hunt, a precision rifle, what you do NOT need is a semi auto rifle, i repeat you do NOT need a semi auto rifle, when you are done with reaiming the deer is long gone, you do NOT need a semi auto rifle and you DEFININTELY do not need a full auto rifle to hunt.

What you need is a simple accurate hunting rifle, no AR-15 no AR-22 either, you need a full caliber fully accurate weapon.

If any of you were real hunters i wouldn't have to tell you this.

I have laid down plenty of deer and moose with my 30-06 manual.

You will most likely miss or shoot them whene the meat goes to waste if you try it.

If you think the most important thing is to kill the animal no matter what, then use your semi autos or shotguns, if not, use a proper weapon, aim, fire and take the meat home.

You rejected them on the basis that they are all inherently inaccurate. You were wrong, its ok.

 

[Pliablemoose]

JFK Now if Kerry was really a guy I'd vote for, I'd see pics of him with his M16 & Edwards holding a crossbow😀

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Munchies
Well, I have never really cared for bush. I figured better kerry than him. I never like either of them to tell the truth. But as I flipped through field and stream today. WOW. He voted to ban semi auto shotguns. WHAT?!?!?!?!?! WTF!! I use a semi auto every weekend for rabbit and quail. And now I read this article on voteyoursport.com. Basically they are conning sportsmen into voting against themselves. That pisses me off to no end. I usually dont fall for that NRA garbage. Im not a crazy freak like them. But I do expect to keep my right to bear arms. Kerry, take my semi auto out of my cold dead hands you big headed prick!


/rant

Gun toting crazy fool. WTF does anyone need a semi auto shotgun? Sounds like a great thing for drive-bys and people who can't aim. Your right to bear arms should be restricted to ball and powder guns from the 1760s like they wanted. LOL.

I hope you are joking, though I doubt it.

nah...he is a pretty flaming liberal, so i doubt he is joking at all

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: burnedout
Here she is:

Pic 1

Pic 2 With handguards off. Note the heavy barrel.

Pic 3 Serial number is scratched out in the photo for obvious reasons.

One of the guys at the office does shooting matching with the service rifle at 1000 yards. I figure such a .223 should be accurate enough for hunting a 200-300 yards🙂.

However I would say it would make for an expensive hunting riflem but I dont have an issue with semi-auto hunting rifles or shutguns for that matter.


I would like to get a semi auto shotgun for skeet shooting. THey are much cheaper than an over/under setup.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: burnedout
Here she is:

Pic 1

Pic 2 With handguards off. Note the heavy barrel.

Pic 3 Serial number is scratched out in the photo for obvious reasons.

I give up, if that is what you use for hunting, i give up.

I have an ak5D here, so what? I would never be stupid enough to use that for hunting.

Well, seeing as how I carried M16A1 and M16A2 for 20 years, it might depend on what I'm hunting for. 😉

Here in Texas, hunting with the weapon is perfectly legal. Now, Tennessee and Kentucky both have limits on calibers. Last I hunted in Tennessee, .223 was illegal. I typically use a Remington 788 chambered in .308. .223 is great for varmints though.

Jedenfalls Klixxi, hier is meiner Deutscher Jägerbrief. Hast du auch einer?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Can you enlighten the gun-dumb as to what your talking about?

Sounds like he goes deer-hunting instead of playing paintball to me. Maybe it's more interesting to him if he pretends the deer are gonna shoot back. 😕

Sure. After 25 years of deer hunting spanning five states and two countries on two different continents, I've never known nor heard of anyone deliberately hunting deer with a double barrel 12-ga.

Not saying such practice isn't possible. I knew one old boy who capped a Whitetail with a double barrel only because he'd stepped out on his back porch with weapon in hand, and Bambi just happened along.

People hunt with shotguns and deerslugs all the time. From my experience, the choices are usually semi-auto or pump-action. Admittedly, I have hunted deer with a single shot HR 20 ga. However, the only reason was that particular weapon was all I had with me.

Then Kerry comments that he likes to "crawl around on my stomach". At his age with a double barrel shotgun? Ask almost anybody who's seriously hunted deer and they'll tell you he's likely full of sh!t.

at his age? this is a man that still snowboards and windsurfs. he's physically strong for his age.

 

[burnedout]

I would like to get a semi auto shotgun for skeet shooting. THey are much cheaper than an over/under setup.

Nothing wrong with a semi-auto for skeet. Additionally, you can use the weapon for rabbit, squirrel or quail. But heck, just pickup a single-shot somewhere. Those are cheap and great to practice with.

Believe it or not, I learned skeet shooting using a single-shot 20 guage along my cousin throwing snowballs out in front of me. 😛 Us "toothless hick white trash" couldn't afford clay pidgeons.

Anyhow, I'll prolly get back out to the range this weekend. Usually, go up off 195 just north of Florence.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: burnedout

I would like to get a semi auto shotgun for skeet shooting. THey are much cheaper than an over/under setup.

Nothing wrong with a semi-auto for skeet. Additionally, you can use the weapon for rabbit, squirrel or quail. But heck, just pickup a single-shot somewhere. Those are cheap and great to practice with.

Kinda hard to shoot doubles with a single shot😀