Kaveri or Haswell+GPU for HTPC/Gaming PC

[Informant X]

Hey guys! This will mainly be used for a HTPC and also I will use it for gaming. Gaming I will probably just rock 720P resolution (although it's hooked up to a 55inch 1080P TV). That being said I feel like I'm underwhelmed with Kaveri and I'm confused with what's more "Future Proof" or a "better" build.

I'm not expecting to build a beast but I mean if I want to play Tomb Raider, or ACBF at high settings in 720P I would like to be able to do that. So it looks like these build will be low 400 which I'd like to stay in that range.

So here would be my Haswell build....

M-ATX w/ 420 Watt PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811144110 -79 USD

ASUS H81M-K LGA 1150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813132052 - 172 (Mobo +CPU Combo)

Intel Core i3-4130 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116946 - 172 (Mobo +CPU Combo)

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231427 - 48

VisionTek 900650 Radeon R7 260X 2GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129282 - 144

All this for a total of 443 dollars. I might get a different case, but it comes with a 300watt PSU, but I don't know if that's enough to power this. Ultimately I would think it would be but would like expert opinions. It will ultimately have 3 HD's in it as well. That case is 20 dollars cheaper so it would be 423.

For a Kaveri Build...

IN WIN BL641.300TBL Black Steel MicroATX Slim Case Computer Case 300W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108106 - 59

ASUS A88XM-A FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X (Bolton D4)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813132045 (Mobo + CPU Combo 265)

AMD A10-7850K Kaveri 3.7GHz Socket FM2+ 95W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113359 (Mobo + CPU Combo 265)

G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231519 85

All this for 410. The rest of the stuff doesn't matter as I already have it, optical disk drive, HDD etc.

I just don't know which is more powerful and is the most future proof. I say that loosely as this obviously isn't a beast. I'll be watching TV at 1080, movies etc. thru this and either PC will do that fine. But I want to be able to play games like I said at max or near max settings at 720P, like Tomb Raider, ACBF etc. I think I could achieve that with either build but which is stronger? I plan to order this stuff ASAP from the egg. (Unless someone know of better deals somewhere else)

 

[Informant X]

So I don't have any "fanboyism" whatever is better is better. Did I mention I plan on ordering in the next day or two? Help me gang

 

[Termie]

Easier to just compare CPU/MB/GPU to APU/MB.

Intel : $316
AMD : $265

Either will run on 300W, by the way, you just need a wider case for the 260X system. As for which is better, there's no question - the 4130/260X is way better for gaming, on the order of four times more powerful. It would easily run Tomb Raider at 1080p at high settings, for instance. If you wanted a thin HTPC, the 260X isn't an option, so it seems that's the main decision you have to make.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Discrete GPU. There's just no comparison with an APU.
And skip any PSUs with cases. They're pretty much universally awful.

Lemme see what I can come up with. It'll be a few minutes since I'm not up on the new Radeon's pricing or performance.

 

[Informant X]

Thank you both, you just made up my mind. My head was telling me intel + dgpu but the Kaveri had that cute factor. Thanks for the input I really appreciate it. Also can't wait to see your PC Dominion.

 

[Torn Mind]

I wouldn't trust most cases that come with an included PSU unless the manufacturer of the case has made good units, such as Antec. The wattage is theoretically enough, but you don't know if the unit is overrated or not. Both units' 12v rails can't handle more than 250W, which is still theoretically enough to turn on the computer issue-free. The main concern of those PSUs is them blowing up the rest of your computer when they decide to give up the ghost...

With 512 GCN cores, the Kaveri has graphics power that is the equivalent of a 7750. The R9 260X has the power of a 7790, which has quite a few more stream processors(896), and hence much faster performance. In addition, there is much more memory bandwidth available to the GPU "cores" due to the GDDR5 present on the discrete GPU.

 

[Torn Mind]

Thank you both, you just made up my mind. My head was telling me intel + dgpu but the Kaveri had that cute factor. Thanks for the input I really appreciate it. Also can't wait to see your PC Dominion.

Or an Richland Athlon+discrete 7850.

 

[Termie]

There's another option, by the way. You can put together a thin system that still has gaming power at least twice that of Kaveri. Pick up this GT 640 1GB GDDR5: http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GDDR5...s=gt+640+gddr5

Then go with any case you'd like.

 

[Termie]

I wouldn't trust most cases that come with an included PSU unless the manufacturer of the case has made good units, such as Antec. The wattage is theoretically enough, but you don't know if the unit is overrated or not. Both units' 12v rails can't handle more than 250W, which is still theoretically enough to turn on the computer issue-free. The main concern of those PSUs is them blowing up the rest of your computer when they decide to give up the ghost...

With 512 GCN cores, the Kaveri has graphics power that is the equivalent of a 7750. The R9 260X has the power of a 7790, which has quite a few more stream processors(896), and hence much faster performance. In addition, there is much more memory bandwidth available to the GPU "cores" due to the GDDR5 present on the discrete GPU.

The Kaveri GPU is nowhere near the power of a 7750: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...1-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-a8-7600-review-26.html

At twice the speed of Intel's HD4600, it's still pretty useless for gaming.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Here you go:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Bu6O

 

[Informant X]

Or an Richland Athlon+discrete 7850.

Wow that's so true. I could save a few bucks and get a A6 or A8 Richland gpu. That wouldn't limit a 260x potential though right?

 

[Informant X]

There's another option, by the way. You can put together a thin system that still has gaming power at least twice that of Kaveri. Pick up this GT 640 1GB GDDR5: http://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GDDR5...s=gt+640+gddr5

Then go with any case you'd like.

How does that compare to the 260x?

 

[Torn Mind]

The Kaveri GPU is nowhere near the power of a 7750: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...1-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-a8-7600-review-26.html

At twice the speed of Intel's HD4600, it's still pretty useless for gaming.

Must be the severe memory bottleneck from plain old DDR3 RAM, since the graphics cores are still GCN cores.

 

[Termie]

How does that compare to the 260x?

The 260X is about twice as fast. But the GT 640 is currently the fastest low-profile card available, other than the discontinued HD 7750: http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-10035...pphire+hd+7750

 

[Informant X]

Here you go:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Bu6O

Looks good! Another nvidia build. Again I ask how is that compared to the 260x?
And also I'm really starting to think about a cheaper Richland plus dgpu.

 

[Termie]

Just use this to understand how GPUs compare: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU14/815

If you're using a discrete GPU, there is no reason whatsoever to buy an AMD APU.

 

[Torn Mind]

Wow that's so true. I could save a few bucks and get a A6 or A8 Richland gpu. That wouldn't limit a 260x potential though right?

A6 is only two "cores"/ one module, so you'll be sacrificing quite a bit. The A8 is a four "core"/two module chip like its bigger cousins.

The Athlons I was referring were the Athlon X4 750k and the Athlon II X4 760K. They do not have a functional IGP but are cheaper than their A8 and larger brethren.

 

[Termie]

Must be the severe memory bottleneck from plain old DDR3 RAM, since the graphics cores are still GCN cores.

Anandtech's review is up. Take a look at these benches: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

The top-end Kaveri is killed by an HD 6750, which is 20% slower than a 7750. That makes Kaveri, which in theory should be equivalent to an HD 7750, actually come out half as fast.

 

[Informant X]

yeah I was just trying to cut a few corners and get a cheaper processor if possible. As long as it won't limit the video card it should be fine no? I am sure it will play movies at 1080 P and do the rest of the regular stuff I would like.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Looks good! Another nvidia build. Again I ask how is that compared to the 260x?
And also I'm really starting to think about a cheaper Richland plus dgpu.

GTX 660 is pretty much faster across the board.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1039?vs=1044

For Richland:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2BuI2

If you want an optical drive for $11, here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1530688

 

[Torn Mind]

Anandtech's review is up. Take a look at these benches: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7677/amd-kaveri-review-a8-7600-a10-7850k/12

The top-end Kaveri is killed by an HD 6750, which is 20% slower than a 7750. That makes Kaveri, which in theory should be equivalent to an HD 7750, actually come out half as fast.

I didn't disagree with what you asserted. Just pointing what I suspect is a cause of the discrepancy.

I have checked the review maybe an hour ago, didn't really look through the review deeply, but I was left unimpressed with the results.

 

[mfenn]

I didn't disagree with what you asserted. Just pointing what I suspect is a cause of the discrepancy.

I have checked the review maybe an hour ago, didn't really look through the review deeply, but I was left unimpressed with the results.

I agree with your assessment that the Kaveri IGP being backed by DDR3 is very likely the source of the discrepancy. DDR3 discrete GPUs always take a significant hit relative to their GDDR5 cousins, and the Kaveri IGP has the added handicap of sharing its memory bust with the CPU.

Overall, the Kaveri IGP is good, for an IGP. It still gets rocked by a competent discrete GPU, which is pretty much what everybody except for the most die-hard AMD fanboys expected.

 

[Termie]

Torn mind, I wasn't disagreeing with you either, just providing the latest review.

It's not just the ddr3, though. That typically reduces performance by 25-30%. The clocks are also about 25% lower. But my guess is that it must be throttling too, because it's about half the speed of a 7750.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Another vote for the i3 or athlon plus discrete card. I would be a bit concerned about those bundled psus though, especially with 3 (??) Hard drives.

 

[Informant X]

@ Dominion, that's a awsome site the pcpartpicker. I never knew about it.

But I think I built my PC. I went with a FX CPU due to the L3 cache. Let me know what you guys think. As far as case+psu, i've decided to use my old one.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2Cbml

AMD FX-4130 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor 95

ASRock 960GM/U3S3 FX Micro ATX AM3+ Motherboard 54

G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1600 Memory 48

Gigabyte Radeon R7 260X 2GB Video Card

So right about 340ish. I didn't want to overspend on this PC as I'm not sure how much I will game on it anyway, but I would like to be able to play modern games in 720P (just in case) which I think I can accomplish. Look good? Nothing will be limiting anything right? In terms of the CPU limiting the GPU?