Kaveri demoed, running Devil May Cry,FM2 compat.?

[frozentundra123456]

Highly doubt it.

A 128 bit interface using 900 mhz DDR3 gets around 28GB/sec. 2133 mhz ram gets around 34 gb/sec but has to share that with the cpu. You are not looking at 'blow out of the water'.

5870 to a10 is probably going to be a downgrade.

Totally agree. I don't even know what he is basing those predictions on unless it is hsa magic, which no one knows if any software will be developed. Just makes no sense to expect an apu to magically perform better than a discrete card with the same number of shaders. Anyway, 7750 is already lowest end card of the current generation and by the time kaveri comes out, it will be even more inadequate.

For desktop gaming, discrete is the way to go. Could be nice in mobile though.

 

[Arkadrel]

A AMD 7750 is only like ~3/5th's of a 5870's performance.
A AMD 7750 has 72 GB/s memory bandwidth.

Kaveri is rumored with GDDR5 system memory to be around ~54 GB/s.

Its probably gonna end up a tiny bit slower (than a 7750), unless you plan to overclock the IGP+ram speeds.

I would not recammend going DDR3 with it, even if its 2133mhz ones, it ll be to big a bottleneck.
You could likely see -50% performance numbers (or more) from doing so.


That said, I love the APU concept and not haveing a discrete wouldnt bug me at all
(if it could give me about same performance as I have now).

Im waiting to see how Kaveri does with GDDR5 and OC on IGP/Ram.
If its enough for my needs, I wouldnt mind trying it out.

 

[SiliconWars]

5870 to Kaveri will definitely be a downgrade - it will be Excavator before APU's reach near 5870 level.

Kaveri with GDDR5 should be ~7750/4870 performance level.

 

[Abwx]

Kaveri APU displayed , was missing from the OP post.....
Perhaps Hans de Vries could extract the die area from
the shot...

Edit : at first look i would say 250mm2....

Link courtesy of Dante05 at Hardware.fr forum.

http://www.nokytech.net/amd_montre_son_kaveri_en_fm2_c-11817-a-c.html

 

[inf64]

Roy Taylor spoke for newegg TV about Richland. Interesting remark from him at around 3:23 in to the video . Kaveri will be compatible with FM2 boards according to him .We know that AMD lists Kaveri as FM2+ so my guess is that it's compatible BUT you would want FM2+ board with GDDR5 or DDR4 (whichever it supports) in order to get the best possible performance.

 

[SPBHM]

Roy Taylor spoke for newegg TV about Richland. Interesting remark from him at around 3:23 in to the video . Kaveri will be compatible with FM2 boards according to him .We know that AMD lists Kaveri as FM2+ so my guess is that it's compatible BUT you would want FM2+ board with GDDR5 or DDR4 (whichever it supports) in order to get the best possible performance.

considering the naming choice I would expect at least the AM3+ kind of compatibility (new board accepts old gen CPUs), but the ideal would be like AM2/AM2+ and AM3, new CPUs can work with older boards (using less than optimal memory),

as long as it's not like FM1, it shouldn't be to bad,

I've read this article a few days ago and it didn't sound so positive
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APUs_Will_Require_New_Mainboards.html

 

[mikk]

Earlier this year we reported about Kaveri also getting a GDDR5 memory interface, a rather interesting proposition but imaginable considering AMD integrated the same memory technology into the silicon for Sony's Playstation 4. A newer version of the NDA documents seen by us no longer include the references to a GDDR5 interface. The document detailing the GDDR5 interface was from last year, while the newer one we have seen is only a few months old. It seems AMDs engineers for some reason dropped GDDR5 in Kaveri. The possibility of models with 3 compute units (i.e. 6 cores) was removed as well. This is also reflected in the roadmap.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...aps2c-shows-28nm-kaveri-for-socket-fm22b.aspx


GDDR5 cancelled.

 

[SiliconWars]

Well that's disappointing if true, I guess we might see some kind of packaged DRAM instead.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It was obvious from the start that GDDR5 gave too many limitations, not to mention increased costs.

DDR4 on the desktop is not gonna happen before 2015 either.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It was obvious from the start that GDDR5 gave too many limitations, not to mention increased costs.

If it was so obvious, why was it even on the roadmap to begin with?

 

[SPBHM]

is there any sodimm DDR3 2133 available? it could help... but still, 128bit DDR3 is a bottleneck that is not going to be solved with more/faster SPs I guess, it's going to limit performance considerably compared to discrete cards with GDDR5 and equivalent GPUs (like GK107 which is pretty small and power efficient already)...

 

[ShintaiDK]

If it was so obvious, why was it even on the roadmap to begin with?

Can you show me the roadmap of GDDR5 on mobile/desktop PCs?

 

[monstercameron]

If 128 bit ddr3 is too slow and gddr5 has too many limitations...then where does that leave amd? Would a bigger on die cache - like 8mb l3- assist when the apu has shared memory space capability? Or would they just have to go triple/quad channel ddr3?

 

[Fjodor2001]

Can you show me the roadmap of GDDR5 on mobile/desktop PCs?

The article said:

"The document detailing the GDDR5 interface was from last year, while the newer one we have seen is only a few months old."

 

[ShintaiDK]

The article said:

"The document detailing the GDDR5 interface was from last year, while the newer one we have seen is only a few months old."

And that document couldnt be about the PS4?

Anyway, can you show me the roadmap?

 

[ShintaiDK]

If 128 bit ddr3 is too slow and gddr5 has too many limitations...then where does that leave amd? Would a bigger on die cache - like 8mb l3- assist when the apu has shared memory space capability? Or would they just have to go triple/quad channel ddr3?

eDRAM or wait for DDR4.

Tripple and quad channel also seems economicly out of reach for the segment.

What we need is 256bit rework of the DIMMs. Just as previous in the history. Quad channel is just silly. Last time I did it on a desktop was with EDO RAM if I recall right in a PPro.

 

[inf64]

The document was about Family 15h and was(is) available only to interested developers (NDA required of course). They are referring to new revised version in which a block diagram that depicts available configurations of models depicted up to 3 modules and GGDR5(now both disappeared from the manual). Maybe it's cost or time to market related (or simply engineering related).
Latest roadmap was already posted few days ago in this forum.

 

[mikk]

DDR4 on the desktop is not gonna happen before 2015 either.

I don't think so. Haswell refresh next year should come with DDR4 support. Also Haswell-E next year support DDR4 and Broadwell BGA in mid 2014 as well. But I think Kaveri for a late 2013 or early 2014 launch is too early.

 

[NTMBK]

eDRAM or wait for DDR4.

Tripple and quad channel also seems economicly out of reach for the segment.

I don't know, triple channel could make sense. 3 DIMMS and 3 DIMM slots is still pretty affordable, especially when the majority of enthusiast motherboards come with 4 DIMM slots anyway. Obviously doubling up the DIMM slots (6 dimms) would get a bit ridiculous.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I don't know, triple channel could make sense. 3 DIMMS and 3 DIMM slots is still pretty affordable, especially when the majority of enthusiast motherboards come with 4 DIMM slots anyway. Obviously doubling up the DIMM slots (6 dimms) would get a bit ridiculous.

I think you forgot the traces and extra socket pins.

 

[FlanK3r]

I think, eDRAM is good alternative to GDDR5...We will see after few months (around end of 2013 and beginning 2014)

 

[USER8000]

I think, eDRAM is good alternative to GDDR5...We will see after few months (around end of 2013 and beginning 2014)

There was a AMD GPU prototype shown a few years which had stacked DRAM(Amkor),and it is supposedly in the PS4. It will be interesting to see if one of the AMD APUs will end up with similar technology.

 

[galego]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...aps2c-shows-28nm-kaveri-for-socket-fm22b.aspx


GDDR5 cancelled.

LOL you bold the wrong part and avoided the relevant part in the quote. I am bolding the relevant part:

It seems AMDs engineers for some reason dropped GDDR5 in Kaveri.

"It seems" does not look to me as confirmation, does it?

 

[CHADBOGA]

So what will the revised likely performance opinions for Kaveri be if GDDR5 is dropped?

Does this also suggest the product will be late?

I know some people who seemed to think Kaveri was going to be approaching 7850 performance, whereas I always doubted it would match HD5770 or HD7750 performance.

 

[parvadomus]

So what will the revised likely performance opinions for Kaveri be if GDDR5 is dropped?

Does this also suggest the product will be late?

I know some people who seemed to think Kaveri was going to be approaching 7850 performance, whereas I always doubted it would match HD5770 or HD7750 performance.

7850 performance is not possible without raising the plataform cost to the sky.
I think it will have a little less than 7750 performance.