Kavanaugh SCOTUS Senate Judicial Hearing

[Maxima1]

Manchin Yes and Collins Yes for cloture; Murkowski No...let's see if any flip on actual vote but I'm already going to call him Injustice Kavanaugh.

Cloture doesn't necessarily mean how they'll vote. Collins voted no on Devos, for example.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

If I understand right, this is just a "test" vote and is more symbolic than anything. The "real" vote is tomorrow, correct?

Not really, if this vote was defeated it would pretty much end his nomination process. They can still vote "NO" on his confirmation after 30 more hours of testimony, but why put yourself through that as a Senator? Sen. Collins will say what her final vote will be today at 3:00 PM EST.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Daine's supposed to walk his daughter down the aisle halfway across the country, but some billionaire donor will volunteer him a private plane if he needs to do both; else McConnell will accommodate.

The Senate majority leader can hold the vote "open" for as long as he wants. It's normal Senate procedure.

 

[HomerJS]

Maybe because of this...
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics...erson-cooper-kavanaugh-lied-ac360-sot-vpx.cnn

One clown says differently on CNN, 6 contemporaries send documents under felony punishment if they lie describing the game. Only a halfwit dumbass like yourself would think he can still be accused of perjury for "devils triangle"[/QUOTE]
They should have been part of the FBI interviews, if we are really trying to see if Kavanaugh is lying vs just trying to give Senators cover.

Documents don't mean shit. Lying to the FBI is regularly prosecuted. Did Russia teach you nothing?

 

[Zorba]

Cloture doesn't necessarily mean how they'll vote. Collins voted no on Devos, for example.

And McCain on killing the ACA.

 

[Maxima1]

Just saw this

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1048173492854771713

A senior source involved in the Kavanaugh confirmation process told Axios fairly late last night: "We’re going into this vote and we don’t have 50 right now."

 

[snoopy7548]

I'm hoping Collins finds her conscience, and Flake grows a spine.

Even if Kavanaugh is confirmed, that doesn't mean he's innocent nor does it mean he's safe from whatever new stuff might happen to come out. He still committed perjury.

 

[dainthomas]

I'm hoping Collins finds her conscience, and Flake grows a spine.

Flake will grow a second head before that happens. Sure wish McCain was still around to give McConnell the thumb again.

 

[Bitek]

It goes to the larger issue. He lied. He claimed he was a virgin on fox. An innocent who spent his summers in chruch Who never did anything bad. The implication is that if he told the truth about these things and their extreme sexual nature (threesomes and butt sex) that it may lend more credibility to the accusations against him.

I hear that as the motivation, but I don't think it works effectively. Just comes off as petty considering it's a crude term from when he was young and dumb in high school.

There are probably things I said that would be very embarrassing now and wouldn't want to readily admit or recall. I'm sure others do too.
These are distinct from the credible allegations of potentially criminal behavior he has against him.

I don't think it's a good focus point when K has done so many other disqualifying things. It also dilutes and sidetracks the argument in a number of ways.

Not directed at you, but Ds in general, have to keep a sharp argument on this to keep control of the message.

It's gotten a bit too much "kitchen sink-y" since Ford came out, while sensational, probably not net beneficial. The party needs to pull it back in order to sustain momentum imo.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

I'm hoping Collins finds her conscience, and Flake grows a spine.

Even if Kavanaugh is confirmed, that doesn't mean he's innocent nor does it mean he's safe from whatever new stuff might happen to come out. He still committed perjury.

Where and when? Link? as if........

 

[Starbuck1975]

I hear that as the motivation, but I don't think it works effectively. Just comes off as petty considering it's a crude term from when he was young and dumb in high school.

There are probably things I said that would be very embarrassing now and wouldn't want to readily admit it recall. I'm sure others do too.
These are distinct from potentially criminal actions he has credible allegations to have done.

I don't think it's a good focus point when K has done so many other disqualifying things. It also dilutes and sidetracks the argument in a number of ways.

Not directed at you, but Ds in general, have to keep a sharp argument on this to keep control of the message.

It's gotten a bit too much "kitchen sink-y" since Ford came out, while sensational, probably not net beneficial. The party needs to pull it back in order to sustain momentum imo.

This thread is evident of that.

There was ample ammunition to bury Kavanaugh even before the Ford stuff came out, even more so after his unhinged performance last week. It’s like Schumer, Feinstein, Harris and Spartacus didn’t even compare notes on what the plan of attack should be. Trump for all his faults is very good at controlling the narrative. The Dems should have start calling him Crazy Kavanaugh or something. Maybe the Democrats should hire SNL writers as strategic consultants, as they were able to distill Kavanaugh’s character down to a Matt Damon sketch.

The Ford allegations derailed the moment Avenatti jumped into the fray with his nonsense.

Perjury over beer consumption or slang used in high school and college is a poor hill to fortify.

There is a sharp, coherent argument against Kavanaugh. It’s buried under all the toilet paper.

 

[Maxima1]

This thread is evident of that.

There was ample ammunition to bury Kavanaugh even before the Ford stuff came out, even more so after his unhinged performance last week. It’s like Schumer, Feinstein, Harris and Spartacus didn’t even compare notes on what the plan of attack should be. Trump for all his faults is very good at controlling the narrative. The Dems should have start calling him Crazy Kavanaugh or something. Maybe the Democrats should hire SNL writers as strategic consultants, as they were able to distill Kavanaugh’s character down to a Matt Damon sketch.

The Ford allegations derailed the moment Avenatti jumped into the fray with his nonsense.

Perjury over beer consumption or slang used in high school and college is a poor hill to fortify.

There is a sharp, coherent argument against Kavanaugh. It’s buried under all the toilet paper.

There's no reason why it wasn't enough for Democrats to call his temperament, perjuries, etc. disqualifying. A large problem is the "liberal media" repeating inane talking points of the Republicans and not calling them out on the massive corruption. In addition, we can't do anything about Breitbart, Fox, or other incredibly conservative outlets that will just feed BS and get the Republicans into a frenzy.

 

[Bitek]

This thread is evident of that.

There was ample ammunition to bury Kavanaugh even before the Ford stuff came out, even more so after his unhinged performance last week. It’s like Schumer, Feinstein, Harris and Spartacus didn’t even compare notes on what the plan of attack should be. Trump for all his faults is very good at controlling the narrative. The Dems should have start calling him Crazy Kavanaugh or something. Maybe the Democrats should hire SNL writers as strategic consultants, as they were able to distill Kavanaugh’s character down to a Matt Damon sketch.

The Ford allegations derailed the moment Avenatti jumped into the fray with his nonsense.

Perjury over beer consumption or slang used in high school and college is a poor hill to fortify.

There is a sharp, coherent argument against Kavanaugh. It’s buried under all the toilet paper.

Agreed.

I would not say Feinstein is a very effective messenger for this vs Trump, and she and Schumer naturally have many disadvantages as senators as opposed to the bully pulpit of the POTUS to begin with.

There are a lot of outside forces that have also come in (like the media and all the other sensational stories coming out of the woodwork) which had made that job even more difficult.

I wouldn't say they've done a horrible job, I don't know how differently they could have played this and ended up better, however it doesn't mean it's good enough.

Managing the response after the vote will be critical.

 

[Maxima1]

Elizabeth Warren says this. The others looked at the same documents, so it may give a hint on the way they might vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...utter-madness-this-is/?utm_term=.72cc971f11b2

“Senators have been muzzled. So I will now say three things that committee staff has explained are permissible to say without violating committee rules. … One: This was not a full and fair investigation. It was sharply limited in scope and did not explore the relevant confirming facts. Two: The available documents do not exonerate Mr. Kavanaugh.


And three: the available documents contradict statements Mr. Kavanaugh made under oath. I would like to back up these points with explicit statements from the FBI documents — explicit statements that should be available for the American people to see. But the Republicans have locked the documents behind closed doors.”

 

[Bitek]

There's no reason why it wasn't enough for Democrats to call his temperament, perjuries, etc. disqualifying. A large problem is the "liberal media" repeating inane talking points of the Republicans and not calling them out on the massive corruption. In addition, we can't do anything about Breitbart, Fox, or other incredibly conservative outlets that will just feed BS and get the Republicans into a frenzy.

I watched some snippets of Morning Joe.

At the beginning of the process he was blasting the Ds for not walking out of the hearing day 1 when they didn't get the documents they requested.

The other day I heard him blasting the media (presumably he excludes himself) for being too sensationalist and political with this, and the Ds being too reactionary.



Self awareness not a strong suit.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Elizabeth Warren says this. The others looked at the same documents, so it may give a hint on the way they might vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...utter-madness-this-is/?utm_term=.72cc971f11b2

“Senators have been muzzled. So I will now say three things that committee staff has explained are permissible to say without violating committee rules. … One: This was not a full and fair investigation. It was sharply limited in scope and did not explore the relevant confirming facts. Two: The available documents do not exonerate Mr. Kavanaugh.


And three: the available documents contradict statements Mr. Kavanaugh made under oath. I would like to back up these points with explicit statements from the FBI documents — explicit statements that should be available for the American people to see. But the Republicans have locked the documents behind closed doors.”

If that is true, then Democrats must call the bluff and bang all drums saying the FBI report condemns Kavanaugh. Call republicans liars and force them to release the report.

 

[Maxima1]

The Ford allegations derailed the moment Avenatti jumped into the fray with his nonsense.

Perjury over beer consumption or slang used in high school and college is a poor hill to fortify.

There is a sharp, coherent argument against Kavanaugh. It’s buried under all the toilet paper.

Also, you're completely overstating your "issues". Avenatti hasn't even really been in the limelight because he has been rebuffed the whole time. Your statement about perjuries is a joke. There are around ~20, and not all of them have to do with slang terms, which even classmates of his have come out and say he's blatantly lying about. It should only take one to disqualify someone to a judgeship. The one thing that may be innocent is FFFF, but even that seemed to have dual meaning.

 

[zinfamous]

Elizabeth Warren says this. The others looked at the same documents, so it may give a hint on the way they might vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...utter-madness-this-is/?utm_term=.72cc971f11b2

“Senators have been muzzled. So I will now say three things that committee staff has explained are permissible to say without violating committee rules. … One: This was not a full and fair investigation. It was sharply limited in scope and did not explore the relevant confirming facts. Two: The available documents do not exonerate Mr. Kavanaugh.


And three: the available documents contradict statements Mr. Kavanaugh made under oath. I would like to back up these points with explicit statements from the FBI documents — explicit statements that should be available for the American people to see. But the Republicans have locked the documents behind closed doors.”

Damn. Little Bretty the Rapist getting helped by Daddy again, trying to bury yet another LEO investigation into his criminal behavior.

 

[zinfamous]

This thread is evident of that.

There was ample ammunition to bury Kavanaugh even before the Ford stuff came out, even more so after his unhinged performance last week. It’s like Schumer, Feinstein, Harris and Spartacus didn’t even compare notes on what the plan of attack should be. Trump for all his faults is very good at controlling the narrative. The Dems should have start calling him Crazy Kavanaugh or something. Maybe the Democrats should hire SNL writers as strategic consultants, as they were able to distill Kavanaugh’s character down to a Matt Damon sketch.

The Ford allegations derailed the moment Avenatti jumped into the fray with his nonsense.

Perjury over beer consumption or slang used in high school and college is a poor hill to fortify.

There is a sharp, coherent argument against Kavanaugh. It’s buried under all the toilet paper.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, and that the events could somewhat fairly be seen this way....but I'm not sure what more the democrats can do, because they actually have been doing these things. As have the media. I guess you want them to just be louder about it, to drown out the victimized right-wing rage? I'm not sure that demanding they stoop to the childish level of shameless republicans is the right way to go, either.

You can demand that they just fight back the same way with petty insults and playground name-calling, but then there is no standard with which to right the ship back on course if "both sides" have given up and fallen into the maelstrom.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Also, you're completely overstating your "issues". Avenatti hasn't even really been in the limelight because he has been rebuffed the whole time.

I think your similarly understating things. Avenatti was in the limelight long enough to impede the momentum against Kavanaugh

Your statement about perjuries is a joke. There are around ~20, and not all of them have to do with slang terms, which even classmates of his have come out and say he's blatantly lying about. It should only take one to disqualify someone to a judgeship. The one thing that may be innocent is FFFF, but even that seemed to have dual meaning.

When the majority of the alleged perjuries are for things like FFFF and Devil’s Triangle, based off what aquaintances and roommated recall, its easy to dismiss all the perjury allegations as partisan hysterics.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Flake is a yes for confirmation.

 

[fskimospy]

I think your similarly understating things. Avenatti was in the limelight long enough to impede the momentum against Kavanaugh

When the majority of the alleged perjuries are for things like FFFF and Devil’s Triangle, based off what aquaintances and roommated recall, its easy to dismiss all the perjury allegations as partisan hysterics.

But that's not the majority of the perjuries or anything close to it? The fact alone that he lied about knowledge of the use of criminally obtained documents should be enough.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I'm not saying you're wrong here, and that the events could somewhat fairly be seen this way....but I'm not sure what more the democrats can do, because they actually have been doing these things. As have the media. I guess you want them to just be louder about it, to drown out the victimized right-wing rage? I'm not sure that demanding they stoop to the childish level of shameless republicans is the right way to go, either.

You can demand that they just fight back the same way with petty insults and playground name-calling, but then there is no standard with which to right the ship back on course if "both sides" have given up and fallen into the maelstrom.

Examples.

Booker had his Spartacus moment and made a compelling argument that the GOP is sitting on documents...and then it died.

Harris alluded to knowing something about an inappropriate meeting between Kavanaugh and Trump’s lawyers...and it went nowhere.

 

[UNCjigga]

Has Meghan McCain weighed in on Kavanaugh yet? She seemed supportive back in July but I don't think she's made any public statements since, while mourning her dad.

She's set to return to The View on Monday, and I'm sure she'll be asked about it. Probably too late by then, but I wonder if she has any sway on Flake privately.

 

[Starbuck1975]

But that's not the majority of the perjuries or anything close to it? The fact alone that he lied about knowledge of the use of criminally obtained documents should be enough.

Which is completely obscured by all the other nonsense. How many pages of this thread has been devoted to Devil’s Triangle versus an intelligent conversation on the documents you referred to?