kashmir

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: lawaris

Originally posted by: Nefrodite

Originally posted by: oslama
Muslims can not co-exist as a minority with other religions (ie phillipines, russia and china and when they are in the majority they tend to supress/brutalize the other religions.

Croatia , Middle East , Afghanistan , India , Sri Lanka ( though on a smaller scale ) , Bangladesh , Chechenya ...... the list goes on .....

Did I leave any troubled region of the world ?

and BD should I just assume that since you are posting some information ... it should be true .... and forget what I saw backin India ( I lived there for 25 years !

Muslim countries account for some of the problems around the world, but not all of them.

Northern Ireland, Central America, Sierra Leone, Yugoslavia, and Iraq have all been in somewhat recent conflicts not started by Muslims. In fact, in Yugoslavia, the Mulims were the ones being exterminated.

Think what you will about the information I've posted. No one has yet to say which piece of information is factually wrong and provided an unbiases source to back it up.

 

[kulki]

It does seem like both the countries are backing down -- for the moment. I wonder how long the peace is gonna last

 

[lawaris]

My reply to BD - hope all questions die after this !

Yes, that's the line all the Indians are quoting, but it isn't exactly true...mostly Indian propoganda.

Here's the 411. Ever since the Indian subcontinent was given up by the British and seperated into an Indian and Pakistani states (divided by religion), the region of Kashmir has been been under debate.

The Pakistanis see the Kashmiri as Muslims, and therefore their brothers who belong in Pakistan. The Indans desire Kasmir because it makes them look more diverse to the rest of the world (not just a Hindu state).

Currently, the disputed area has been seperated into a Pakistani portion and an Indian portion. Due to the nature of the region, I don't think it's fair to claim that the area really belonged to one or the other.

How did u come to the conclusion that it is Indian propoganda ?
FYI - British did not GIVE up ! They were forced to leave ....
Pakistan was created on basis of religion .... but NOT India ... we have more muslims than Pakistan. India is a secular democratic republic.
Just because Kashmiris are mainly muslims does not mean that they have the right to the region ...and muslims are not just living in Kashmir ... they are in large # all over India ..... Kerla , Bihar , Karnataka , Maharastra , Gujrat ..... to name a few !
What after Kashmir ?
It's just like Pakistanis were saying that the whole of Punjab is theirs cos' Punjabi's are the majority ruling class in Pakistan ... and they got a bigger share of Punjab than India ... at partition. That period of insurgency lasted 10 years and then they shifted to Kashmir !

Yes , Kashmir is divided ... but not into 2 but 3 parts ... one part lies with China too .....
Since we are basically peaceful people we are even willing to live with the fact that Pakistan got a share of the state even after losing a war !

( did you read about how the US played in role in that ?).
If we can live with Pakistan getting a part of Kashmir ( for the sake of peace ) what's bugging them?
They have tried it thrice .... lost everytime ! So it's militancy now .....

And I have read your CNN info. ...... is there any reason I should take it at it's face value ?
One thing is right there though ... The very basis of Pakistan id religion and till Kashmir is part of India ... they feel the lack of legitimacy !
Try to read between the lines if you really want to understand things .

Let's not talk about Pakistan supported terrorism..... the whole world knows that now !
You can even get hold of information on the various terrorism camps located all over Pakistan but esp. in POK and NWFP

whew ! will need a couple of more posts I think .... on my next break .....lol

links ... aahhh...you wanted links to check out the facts .....




this has some violent pics ..... not for kids
link 1

Indian army viewpoint ... contains things which have been verified - again not for kids
link 2

a BBC link
link 3

 

[absolutiza]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Both India and Pakistan want to corner the market on the sweaters. Huge revenue is being lost on both sides.

ha.... wait, this is stupid

 

[handoverfist]

Originally posted by: lawaris
My reply to BD - hope all questions die after this !

Yes, that's the line all the Indians are quoting, but it isn't exactly true...mostly Indian propoganda.

Here's the 411. Ever since the Indian subcontinent was given up by the British and seperated into an Indian and Pakistani states (divided by religion), the region of Kashmir has been been under debate.

The Pakistanis see the Kashmiri as Muslims, and therefore their brothers who belong in Pakistan. The Indans desire Kasmir because it makes them look more diverse to the rest of the world (not just a Hindu state).

Currently, the disputed area has been seperated into a Pakistani portion and an Indian portion. Due to the nature of the region, I don't think it's fair to claim that the area really belonged to one or the other.

How did u come to the conclusion that it is Indian propoganda ?
FYI - British did not GIVE up ! They were forced to leave ....
Pakistan was created on basis of religion .... but NOT India ... we have more muslims than Pakistan. India is a secular democratic republic.
Just because Kashmiris are mainly muslims does not mean that they have the right to the region ...and muslims are not just living in Kashmir ... they are in large # all over India ..... Kerla , Bihar , Karnataka , Maharastra , Gujrat ..... to name a few !
What after Kashmir ?
It's just like Pakistanis were saying that the whole of Punjab is theirs cos' Punjabi's are the majority ruling class in Pakistan ... and they got a bigger share of Punjab than India ... at partition. That period of insurgency lasted 10 years and then they shifted to Kashmir !

Yes , Kashmir is divided ... but not into 2 but 3 parts ... one part lies with China too .....
Since we are basically peaceful people we are even willing to live with the fact that Pakistan got a share of the state even after losing a war !

( did you read about how the US played in role in that ?).
If we can live with Pakistan getting a part of Kashmir ( for the sake of peace ) what's bugging them?
They have tried it thrice .... lost everytime ! So it's militancy now .....

And I have read your CNN info. ...... is there any reason I should take it at it's face value ?
One thing is right there though ... The very basis of Pakistan id religion and till Kashmir is part of India ... they feel the lack of legitimacy !
Try to read between the lines if you really want to understand things .

Let's not talk about Pakistan supported terrorism..... the whole world knows that now !
You can even get hold of information on the various terrorism camps located all over Pakistan but esp. in POK and NWFP

whew ! will need a couple of more posts I think .... on my next break .....lol

links ... aahhh...you wanted links to check out the facts .....




this has some violent pics ..... not for kids
link 1

Indian army viewpoint ... contains things which have been verified - again not for kids
link 2

a BBC link
link 3

BDawg.... owned :Q

 

[lawaris]

I don't think I said that Pakistan was in the right. My gut feeling is neither one is right and Kashmir should be an autonomous country. I also think a lot of the information coming from here is tripe spouted off by people with an abvious Indian bias. This is because there are so many immigrants and families of Indian immigrants in the US (which makes you wonder if India is so right about everything, why do so many people leave)? I have no problems with Indian immigrants. I currently have friends for India...I just might not agree with them on everything.

Well your gut feelings don't count for much anyway since most people here have a different gut feeling !
There are many Indians here .... also Chinese ... and people from middle east .... also some Pakis ....
Why ? Cos' of career prospects mainly and the opportunities US offers to them professionally.
Indians are more cos' USA respects intelligence .... the same reason why Pakis are so few here .... if they really wanted to make a better life for themselves and their country ... they should be concentrating more on socio-economic and educational issues and not Kashmir.
Their idea of an educational systemis " madarsas" where Taliban was born

Personally, both countries have behaved childishly. I would have liked to bitch slap India back to the stone age when they "tested" nuclear bombs to flex their muscle five years ago. That's exactly what this conflict needed.

I'm no friend of Fundamentalist Muslim regimes. Don't kid yourself though, there are plenty of crazed right-wing fanatics who are Indian Hindus too. India has it's share of anti-Christian and anti-Muslim violence.

Yeah like the black - white thing here .... where there is civilization there is alaways disputes ......and how did you conclude that India becoming a nuclear power helped create this conflit ?
Aren't you contradicting yourself now ?

And being an independent nation they DO have the right to decide their own policies .... Nuclear or otherwise.

I believe that's an unfair generalization. At the same time, there's only one predominantly Hindu country in the world, and they seem to always be at a state of war too.

There's than one .... go back to your research buddy !
And it's not even that .... the point is there are Hindus all over the world and tell me where they are creating trouble ... like the muslims ?

I know quite a bit more about the region than you would ever give me credit for.

Sure, India has a decent chance of being an important country someday. Right now, there are too many Priests burning and nuns being raped for me to consider them secular. Also, they need to do something about population control and infrasturcture improvements in order to be a major player in the world.

I amtouched by your concern here ...... this is another pandora's box which believe me ... you don't want to open !
Kashmir was the issue .... let's stick to that !

You know, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make him an ignorant American.

Edit: Don't try to post while watching the end of football matches and then sportscenter.

No, it does not .... but it does not excuse you too !
Football =soccer matches are great .... I did this while listening to it

 

[lawaris]

a bump to help explain the other Kashmir thread

 

[AU Tiger]

Originally posted by: singh

Originally posted by: kulki
I dont quite understand whats all this fighting about between India-pak. Since its quite clear that Kashmiris want their own land and India being ademocratic country and everything shouldnt it stand to reason that kashmiris should get what they want. I dont understand how Indian govt justfies holding onto kashmir inspite of peoples wishes?
any comments

If a state from USA wanted to separate from US, could it do so?

A little late answering this, but I am surprised no one has mentioned Texas. Unless I am mistaken, the Texas State Constitution allows for them to become an independent country.

 

[DigDug]

Even if that's so, the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution would invalidate such a stupid provision if Texas ever dared to exert it.

 

[Red Dawn]

There are many Indians here .... also Chinese ... and people from middle east .... also some Pakis ....

They are called Pakistani's lawaris. Calling them beloved patriot's would be like me calling you Gunga Din. Both are extremely derogatory terms.

 

[DigDug]

Wrong again, Red Dawn.

"beloved patriot" is very much used not only among the Pakistani community but among Desis ("Indians") in general. If this were England, and lawaris were English, then you might have a case.

Oops.

 

[Red Dawn]

ZipFlop

If this were England, and lawaris were English, then you might have a case.

It's also considered derogatory here in the US too.

Oops.

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

There are many Indians here .... also Chinese ... and people from middle east .... also some Pakis ....

They are called Pakistani's lawaris. Calling them beloved patriot's would be like me calling you Gunga Din. Both are extremely derogatory terms.

look who's talking ...

racist pig !

better edit your other posts ....... we call them Pakis and not in a derogatory way ..... you really don't understand the subcontinent !

improve your GK before shooting off your mouth

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ZipFlop

If this were England, and lawaris were English, then you might have a case.

It's also considered derogatory here in the US too.

Oops.

Yeah, true! Even Bush had to explain that he didn't mean to use that term derogatorily But beloved patriot-stan means 'Land of the Pure', fyi, so beloved patriot actually means 'Pure'! Now, if Pakistanis feel offended at being called 'Pure', who can blame them

 

[Red Dawn]

look who's talking ...

racist pig !

I'm not a racist. You being South Asian isn't the reason I think you are a sexually confused pervert.

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

look who's talking ...

racist pig !

I'm not a racist. You being South Asian isn't the reason I think you are a sexually confused pervert.

OMG !
What a healthy self esteem you have ( in your own mind - emphasized )
I really don't care to know your reasons .... kiddo

 

[DigDug]

It's also considered derogatory here in the US too.

Seeing as the distinction wasn't known by most of the country (killer educational system!) until VERY recently, its very debatable as to whether it truly is, and even more so if uttered by a South Asian in an ambiguous context.


Oops.

 

[Red Dawn]

Just because I think you are a wanker doesn't mean I think all Indians are wankers. I don't put athithi in the same category as you. He took answered some very pointed questions I had without losing his composure and helped set me straight about Kashmir and regarding the reason so many Educated Indians come to the US to work. He also doesn't troll AIM looking for 14 year old girls or Belarussians named Boris.

Regarding Kashmir, I think I would side with the Indians if it weren't for the fact that any type of military incursion on their part into Pakistan, whether justified or not, probably would end up being a nuclear conflict. I would hate to see so many Indian and Pakistani civilians suffer from the results.

 

[Red Dawn]

ZipFlop

Seeing as the distinction wasn't known by most of the country (killer educational system!) until VERY recently, its very debatable as to whether it truly is, and even more so if uttered by a South Asian in an ambiguous context.

Tell me wanker, what is the literacy rate of India?

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
ZipFlop

Seeing as the distinction wasn't known by most of the country (killer educational system!) until VERY recently, its very debatable as to whether it truly is, and even more so if uttered by a South Asian in an ambiguous context.

Tell me wanker, what is the literacy rate of India?

what about USA ?

and they have to IMPORT intellectuals ?

get a life dude

 

[athithi]

Ha You know you've made it in anandtech when one member refers to you while responding to another member

Guys, please don't turn this into an Indo-US thang :Q It is true that most Americans are still pretty ignorant, and I don't mean it in an offensive way, about the situation in South Asia. While the U.S Government might have a vested interest in that region, I think the average American is pretty malleable with his opinions if we take the trouble to explain it to them. Pakistan and its policies don't stand a snowball's chance in hell with Americans if Americans become aware of the true nature of events in South Asia. That said, India has some way to go before it can provide the same standard of lifestyle that the U.S provides to its citizens. So, I would be a little more cautious comparing India's literacy rates with the U.S'

 

[DigDug]

Tell Tosser (if its all about borrowing british slang),

Why do the corporation giants of America continually scour India for engineering expertise?


Rather than pointing out illiteracy as conclusive proof, which has more to do with agricultural framework of much of India's society and the necessary sacrifices that such communities make, than effectiveness of the educational system (this sort of false correlation is childlike - think through your answer little boy!), ask yourself why those who have successfully graduated through India's educational system consistently outperform your local pimple-faced dope walking around the streets here, as evidenced through Corporate America's perpetual importation of Indian Intellect - a need so bad as foster a bill to increase the amount of h1-b visas alloted to allow for more importation of Indians?.

And realizing that economics has much to do with the situation, question why America, the richest country in the world, still ranks poorly in global comparisons between various countries - wasn't america near the bottom a study done in the 80s?

Oops.

 

[Red Dawn]

what about USA ?

and they have to IMPORT intellectuals ?

get a life dude

Yeah I bet you consider yourself and Intellectual

We import educated individuals from other countries to teach and work at HMO's like Kaiser because all our highley skilled individuals are in the private sector making the real money. Of course if you are from another country and have the aptitude you too can find yourself in a lucrative position in the private sector too. America, what a great country!!

It is true that most Americans are still pretty ignorant, and I don't mean it in an offensive way, about the situation in South Asia.

No doubt, but I would say that the percentage of Indians and Pakistani's ignorant of the relations between the US and Canada is much higher

 

[DigDug]

Just because I think you are a wanker doesn't mean I think all Indians are wankers. I don't put athithi in the same category as you. He took answered some very pointed questions I had without losing his composure and helped set me straight about Kashmir and regarding the reason so many Educated Indians come to the US to work. He also doesn't troll AIM looking for 14 year old girls or Belarussians named Boris.

Spare your pathetic comedy routine for some night club, please.

 

[Red Dawn]

ZipFlop

Why do the corporation giants of America continually scour India for engineering expertise?

Because there is a lack of qualified engineers here in the United states to fill all the openings. Still the vast majority or those positions are filled by Americans.

ask yourself why those who have successfully graduated through India's educational system consistently outperform your local pimple-faced dope walking around the streets here,

Ask yourself why the poverty level in India is so horrendous? Sure there are a few who rise to the top of their fields but the overall percentage of Indians will never be able to even dream of having such an opportunity. In fact they would just be happy to be able to feed their children. Of course I hope that one day India will be able to pull itself and it's citizens from such paralyzing poverty but with the alarming exodus of it's best and brightests it seems that may be more than a few generations away.