Kamala Harris: Medicare for all, free pre-K, debt free college, $500 guaranteed pay increase

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Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,295
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I like free stuffs. Count me in.


It isn't the everything is free playbook she is talking about tax increases in pay for it.

Yes just what we need another business man who doesn't understand the difference between a corporation and government.


We were already using this tax money before Trump gave it to corporations and the rich so it's not really a tax increase. We would just be getting it back to pay for the free stuffs.

paid for by reversing this Admin’s gifts to big corporations & the top 1%.
 
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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
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What you fail to understand is that it is not expected for the tax revenue from the people making tons of money so that their income above $10 million gets hit with 70% to pay for "Medicare for all."


Higher marginal tax rates on the incomes above a certain level (not the entirety person's income from their 1st dollar onward is going to be tax at 70% as some fox hosts try lie people into believing) are not expected to get no reaction.

If a business man has a business or a few that is/are profitable enough for him to gain tens of millions of dollars on income with a high marginal tax rate he may think "I'm not giving the Government all this free money" then decide to take a lower payday and keep much more of the money in his business(es)
what happens then? likely the business(es) will grow larger and expand, benefiting more of the economy as a whole than just one person with if the top marginal tax rates were lower.

As stated in the video by the MIT professor during the decades of 70% plus marginal tax rates growth was very good in the U.S.


_________
Remember the good ol' mid-40s to late-60s, when the US economy was creating jobs and a middle class?

Massively high marginal tax rates that INCENTIVED the would-be billionaires to instead rough it as lowly, sad multi-millionaires, while reinvesting in their golden goose companies.

Lowering the highest marginal tax rates from ~70% to the low 30%, was the first step to making it profitable to start liquidating US Industry. Then paired with "free trade" agreements, allowed the offshoring of the remaining US Industry. The liquidation/mothballing/offshoring of US Industry had the added BENEFIT (to JobDestroyers™) of creating excess labor, i.e. unemployed workers, which causes wage/benefit stagnation...AND helped the banks by creating a massive need for credit just to keep up with the American Dream. (Let's be clear: society/culture paints a picture, purposefully, to get people to buy shit, whether it be a house, a car, a washer/dryer, etc. Please don't scream about how everyone should just live in a one-room hovel and save their $7.00 an hour. If everyone did that, our ENTIRE ECONOMY WOULD DIE).

The funny thing about modern US conservatism is that their models have been used for the past 40+ years, with nothing to show for it but increased public debt, increased private debt, decreased employment, and stagnant wages/benefits. It's all a feature, not a bug, of the TrickleDown™ con. And there isn't another country that even remotely uses their model and provides the benefits they keep promising.

Meanwhile, here in objective, observable reality, all of that "lost" income from the masses has created the increased amount of people who own more wealth than is even remotely sustainable, aka fucking BILLIONAIRES.

It's tragic, and somewhat hilarious, that the TrickleDown™ model is still being used here, with fucking Billionaires still claiming that at some point, if they just own enough of the economy lock and key, it's going to TrickleDown™ all over the shrinking middle class now scraping by as the enlarging working class.

Tragic, but kinda hilarious.

Maybe some day we'll stop digging this fucking quarry we've created for ourselves. But that'll only come when the billionaire wealth-addicts aren't allowed to hold the entire wealth of the country with promises to eventually distribute it.

It's like giving the raging alcoholic control of the liquor cabinet after they promise that they'll be serving everyone at the open bar. The middle class has been ponying up to the fucking bar for 40 years of increased productivity and hard work, and that god damn alcoholic has either drank the liquor or stashed it all away where only they can get it, while making the rest of us Shirley Temples with promises that they're about to pour us a real drink...if we just provide them some more alcohol.

How many more fucking decades do modern US conservatives need before they realize that the only thing the Republican party will ever act on is giving the wealth addicts even more fucking money? And that they, as middle-class/working-class are going to continue to be used as useful idiots with promises that are never going to be kept?

Tragic, and hilarious.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
16,601
11,409
136
How about we stop paying Israel $50 billion every year and invest it in healthcare of US citizens?
 
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Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,295
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Anyone with half a brain knows the answer to that: Telling kids "I'm sorry, you're too fucking stupid for this University. maybe you will have better luck getting accepted to xyz trade school instead" is the only way to have "free college"



We do need more students going into trade school instead of paying $100k for a degree that won't land them a decent job.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
I have the same response I had in the AOC thread. We've had the sales pitch, now we need the engineer to tell us how it works. I can be convinced, all it takes is actual numbers, real numbers from the real world that aren't based on never ending population growth. If those numbers are reasonable, and proper controls are in place, I'm all in.

UHC is a goal, not yet a plan. There's no point in working up a concrete proposal until it's politically possible to implement it. It's obvious that it can be done given its prevalence in the rest of the First World.

Well, unless American Exceptionalism includes be exceptionally stupid.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I'm not aware of anyone who has suggested funding medicare for all out of an income tax only on rich people. Most of the proposals would essentially replace the amounts being spent on private health insurance with new taxes and create a single payer system with a far greater ability to manage costs going forward and broader coverage.

Yes "liberals" (if you can call Ann Coulter a liberal for example) frequently cite the desire to increase taxes on the rich but that is far from the only funding mechanism for big ticket items.

So stop calling and advocating by saying the words "Free healthcare" or "Free college" or "free pre-k". It's not free. It's not free for the rich, it's not free for the middle class, and it's not free for the poor. Everyone will pay. Income taxes will increase all around.

Calling it free is not only misinformation, but it truly shows the IQ level of the voter base that is advocating such. Anytime someone advocates for enacting something that is as costly as increasing tax rates to pay for it should have to cite that in their stupid advertisement speeches
 
Last edited:
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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And you also need a calculator because these fucking retarded liberals still don't understand that if they made a 90% tax bracket for those making $10m+ they STILL wouldn't have anywhere the amount of funding needed for "free medicare". You can't play the stupid game of calling rich people evil forever. At some point you have to actually have facts.

Feel free to inform us if you ever stumble across any of your own.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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Everything you said is essentially wrong.

Something isn't free just because you pay for it with taxes to the gub'mint, instead of a direct payment to a third party attempting to extract as much profit as they can, legally or illegally.

Also, please name one way in which the debt has hurt you financially, over the past 70 years.

Bonus(es):

Of the trillions in "debt", what percentage is owed to other branches of the US government? You know, kinda like your checking account owing your savings account $1.00.

What percentage of the debt is owed to US citizens who use treasury bonds as INVESTMENT INCOME. You know, the US government owing a US citizen money, which benefits the gub'mint, AND the US citizen who purposefully and knowingly purchased the treasury bond.

Now, I realize I'm asking very relevant and pertinent questions that most people don't even know to ask. Rarely are the actual logistics of the big bad debt discussed, especially from a media that is afraid of not terrorizing US citizens into hysterics over an accounting column. So, I'll give you some assistance.

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/reports-statements/mts/current.html

PS: This isn't a goalpost-moving discussion that involves me implying that the US gub'mint should just go out and borrow $20T tomorrow and helicopter dump it into the Pacific Ocean. Just to be clear.

I'll wait here. Should be a good, substantive discussion.

You have that much spare time?
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,220
9,261
136
You have that much spare time?
Well, I receive alerts when people reply, so it's not like I have to sit at my desk awaiting for it to happen or anything. I mean, sure, I'm a libtard, but like 3 or 4 other libtards in this country, I am gainfully employed and stuff.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Well, I receive alerts when people reply, so it's not like I have to sit at my desk awaiting for it to happen or anything. I mean, sure, I'm a libtard, but like 3 or 4 other libtards in this country, I am gainfully employed and stuff.

I'm sure that he'll get back to you within 10 or 15 years so you'll have lots of time for that gainful employment. :p
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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And you also need a calculator because these fucking retarded liberals still don't understand that if they made a 90% tax bracket for those making $10m+ they STILL wouldn't have anywhere the amount of funding needed for "free medicare". You can't play the stupid game of calling rich people evil forever. At some point you have to actually have facts.

Not so sure about that, we have the most expensive health costs in the world, we pay more than anyone else in the world by a large margin. Safe to assume if we copy practices of countries with affordable healthcare we should see the cost drop. Our current system has many middlemen that add no value. Basically every company and every citizen will trade what they pay in healthcare for a tax that will provide healthcare.
It’s certainly not going down as you describe where everyone stops paying anything for healthcare except people earning 10 million plus paying for it all themselves.
 
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blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,797
572
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True, especially for doctors.

look into PBS.org "sick around the world" if it is still available there.

There is some supplemental material in addition to the main video that explains how much less doctors from other countries in a Single payer system pay for their Medical School than American Doctors....

face it when it comes to education and health care we are behind the rest of the first world... but hey MAGA!


__________
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
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So stop calling and advocating by saying the words "Free healthcare" or "Free college" or "free pre-k". It's not free. It's not free for the rich, it's not free for the middle class, and it's not free for the poor. Everyone will pay. Income taxes will increase all around.

Calling it free is not only misinformation, but it truly shows the IQ level of the voter base that is advocating such. Anytime someone advocates for enacting something that is as costly as increasing tax rates to pay for it should have to cite that in their stupid advertisement speeches

What, with real math, or GOP math?

Nobody likes the boring accounting models, so let's just go with "it will pay for itself, and if it doesn't, Mexico will pay for it."

/debate
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,842
4,785
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look into PBS.org "sick around the world" if it is still available there.

There is some supplemental material in addition to the main video that explains how much less doctors from other countries in a Single payer system pay for their Medical School than American Doctors....

face it when it comes to education and health care we are behind the rest of the first world... but hey MAGA!


__________

For standard healthcare - sure, I'll agree.... By that I mean typical stuff - someone comes into the emenrgency room with a broken leg. Shouldn't cost $20k at this point for age old treatment.

Cancer treatment though? Planes keep touching down here in the states for the latest.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
More screaming about free shit from progressive politicians. I guess the $140,000 I paid last year in payroll taxes really wasn't my "fair share" and better increase my taxes even more!
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,822
2,143
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Medicare for All - not free, paid for through taxes, but a net savings for most Americans since Medicare for All would likely save our country money.
Universal pre-K - again, not free, paid for through taxes, however once again likely to save money (although not short term) since pre-K has been shown to improve education outcomes which will save money later in life. Research has quite thoroughly shown it is far cheaper and more effective to educate at a young age than it is to correct at an older age.
Debt free college - Not free, just affordable, similar to how college was when all the boomers were going to school.
Middle class family tax cut - right there in the tweet how it will be paid for.

I jumped into this, looking to say the same thing, but you said it all in bulleted points.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. I think that's a Friedman quote, but it's true. If you have only your personal self-interest at stake in public policy, then you won't mind if I deny you roadside emergency assistance because I'm in a hurry, or I just despise your political views. There is self-interest, and enlightened self-interest, and the enlightened variety admits to a public interest, paid for collectively.

The Right doesn't admit it, but they think they should be able to attenuate taxation to zero, with public obligation to the Nation-state at zero.

That's how they came to naively champion a traitor and Putin-puppet, who appealed to the lowest denominator of citizenship -- greed, indifference, and antipathy toward national unity and collective responsibility.

The human race could be great again, if we could sell Drumpf condos in Antarctica to the Base because everything there is white. Let them eat yellow snow cones, although they wouldn't get the flavor with any lack of sled-team dogs. I heard the folklore that Hitler liked dogs, but I cannot imagine dogs liking Trumpies. You could only take getting kicked around so much. Great promotion for the ASPCA commercial, but it would still be animal cruelty.